Dating: Does too far mean no love?!

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I am a practicing Catholic guy in my early 20s dating this Catholic woman also in her early 20s. Throughout our relationship we have struggled greatly with maintaining a level of purity in our relationship with one another.

Although we have never had sex, our kissing many times goes way beyond what it should be and we end up in an impure state. After falling into this act on one occasion I decided that we should go cold turkey in our intimate relationship with one another and avoid any kind of passion that could lead to falling into this sin again.

This all unfortunately turned out to be in some cases worse because with that intimacy gone, she began to feel a disconnect from me, and I from her, leading us to have a lack of trust in one another.

Now we are back in the same boat, having overly intimate moments with one another, but our trust levels are increasing. It is very confusing because what is sinful in my eyes is bringing me closer to the person I believe God intends to be my spouse.

Do we actually love each other?! Before all of this began I had the intention of marrying her having known her for several years as a great friend and woman.

Are there any ways we can keep this trust growing despite our own weaknesses?

Thank you!
JMJ
 
You are old enough, and have known each other long enough,. to make a plan for your futures. Have you talked with a priest? Have you considered becoming engaged? How long until you plan to marry?
It is probably time to consider these serious questions. If she is a wonderful woman, and you have discussed important issues such as how many children you plan to have, whether she will work or be a stay at home mother, where you will live, how much money you will need to live on, and other questions, you need to decide on your next step.
God bless.
 
Intimacy does generally bring people closer. Sharing some things that aren’t shared with others does bring about some trust. But these are actually some of the reasons why sexual activities shouldn’t happen before making the full commitment which is marriage. It is “too much” for an unmarried couple to share this level of intimacy. On the other hand, that definite commitment, for as long as both live and with the exclusion of others by means of an oath taken before God and a sacrament, makes for a proper, safe environment for this kind of closeness.
 
chevalier said:
Intimacy does generally bring people closer. Sharing some things that aren’t shared with others does bring about some trust. But these are actually some of the reasons why sexual activities shouldn’t happen before making the full commitment which is marriage. It is “too much” for an unmarried couple to share this level of intimacy. On the other hand, that definite commitment, for as long as both live and with the exclusion of others by means of an oath taken before God and a sacrament, makes for a proper, safe environment for this kind of closeness.
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Ditto 👍.

Also, we often forget the role of biology in all of this. I wonder, OP, if you’ve heard of the social scientist Helen fisher? She explains this processes of falling in love, attachment, commitment etc.

I would certainly cut out anything that leads to sin. The Lord said, if your eye, right hand causes you to sin…cast it away…Ditto for kissing and anything else that causes the same.

Feeling disconnect without physical intimacy…? Perhaps that’s an opportunity to mature in the relationship a bit more? Do you know that so many people divorce or start having affairs when this feeling of intimacy starts to wane (Ask the scientists- at some point, you WILL feel this disconnect)? Yet those that persevere on and struggle through it via only commitment usually end up developing much deeper levels of intimacy and more pure love and mutual trust than ever, in the long run. If your relationship is dependent so much on this physical aspect to survive, that may be a sign that you really need to explore other areas and aspects of love, other meanings of friendship than physical intimacy.

Peace.
 
Personally, I think part of the point of waiting for sex till you are married is about reserving married love and intimacy for marriage. Do not make a decision to marry based on feelings. You know you want to give your heart to this woman. Dating is about holding your heart back to discern if it is wise to give your heart to the other person. Certainly levels of intimacy will increase as you get closer to marrying, but the closeness of sexual intimacy is for marriage. And it is definitely nice waiting.

Certainly prior to marrying,my husband and I had a lot of arguments we didn’t need to have mainly because of sexual tension. Marrying and becoming sexually active did indeed help us to get along better and to feel much closer and more in love, but that is to help you fulfill your marital commitments. When you’re not married, you should not have such commitments.
 
chevalier said:
Intimacy does generally bring people closer. Sharing some things that aren’t shared with others does bring about some trust. .
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I just want to add that the ‘sharing of things’ does not mean sex. It is possible to confide certain thoughts and feelings only with your bf/gf that can create a level of intimacy to build trust.

For example, years ago, I had a boyfriend and another guy friend I would eat lunch with at work. When something unsual would happen, I would always think of telling my guy friend at work first. That is when I knew I was dating the wrong man.

When you or she has a long day at work, who is the first person you tell it to? If it is not each other, I think that speaks volumes it is time to break up.

As someone else said, you are old enough to propose so I think it is time you make some big decisions

CM
 
twoangels said:
Personally, I think part of the point of waiting for sex till you are married is about reserving married love and intimacy for marriage. Do not make a decision to marry based on feelings. You know you want to give your heart to this woman. **Dating is about holding your heart back to discern if it is wise to give your heart to the other person. ** Certainly levels of intimacy will increase as you get closer to marrying, but the closeness of sexual intimacy is for marriage. And it is definitely nice waiting.

Certainly prior to marrying,my husband and I had a lot of arguments we didn’t need to have mainly because of sexual tension. Marrying and becoming sexually active did indeed help us to get along better and to feel much closer and more in love, but that is to help you fulfill your marital commitments. When you’re not married, you should not have such commitments.
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👍

This little gem should be drummed into our kids from age 3 onward. Dating is not just to have fun, and dating is NOT to increase our attraction to another person. It is to DISCERN whether that person is someone we want to grow in relationship with. So making out on a date will mess things up badly, because of course the person you have just spent 90 minutes kissing will seem like the best thing since sliced bread! It is how our bodies work - the bonding starts happening just as IF we were actually married! Our bodies know no better.

OP, you and your girlfriend have already gone beyond the point that you should have, and you know that. It is hard to turn back now. If you find yourself drawing away from her without the make-out sessions, doesn’t that say something? What is the true glue that binds you together? Is it your friendship, or that you’ve been tempting yourselves by giving in to sexual urges?

You’re fooling with a fire, my friend. If you think you want to marry this lady, then start doing some planning. If not, stop the physical stuff and see what happens.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
OP, you and your girlfriend have already gone beyond the point that you should have, and you know that. It is hard to turn back now. If you find yourself drawing away from her without the make-out sessions, doesn’t that say something? What is the true glue that binds you together? Is it your friendship, or that you’ve been tempting yourselves by giving in to sexual urges?
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I’m going to use this quote to go in a somewhat opposite direction from the other posters. I think the drawing away does say something, but not necessarily that you should be making future plans with this lady. I’m the opposite point of view. The pulling away from each other would be a huge red flag to me that maybe this relationship isn’t the best of marriage material, that what I thought was happening between me and this other person is just based on physical attraction, not on the stuff that makes a great marriage. I’d be taking the relationship back to just friendship and see about building intimacy based on other aspects of connection and absolutely NOT be thinking about any marriage plans until there was emotional intimacy, NOT the physical intimacy only that seems to work.
 
PatriceA said:
I’m going to use this quote to go in a somewhat opposite direction from the other posters. I think the drawing away does say something, but not necessarily that you should be making future plans with this lady. I’m the opposite point of view. The pulling away from each other would be a huge red flag to me that maybe this relationship isn’t the best of marriage material, that what I thought was happening between me and this other person is just based on physical attraction, not on the stuff that makes a great marriage. I’d be taking the relationship back to just friendship and see about building intimacy based on other aspects of connection and absolutely NOT be thinking about any marriage plans until there was emotional intimacy, NOT the physical intimacy only that seems to work.
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Yeah, that’s a better plan, really. If the girl feels no trust when they aren’t locking lips…hmmmm…not good. 🤷
 
PatriceA said:
I’m going to use this quote to go in a somewhat opposite direction from the other posters. I think the drawing away does say something, but not necessarily that you should be making future plans with this lady. I’m the opposite point of view. The pulling away from each other would be a huge red flag to me that maybe this relationship isn’t the best of marriage material, that what I thought was happening between me and this other person is just based on physical attraction, not on the stuff that makes a great marriage. I’d be taking the relationship back to just friendship and see about building intimacy based on other aspects of connection and absolutely NOT be thinking about any marriage plans until there was emotional intimacy, NOT the physical intimacy only that seems to work.
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What she said.

If the only time you feel close to each other is when your hormones raging, that’s a sign that real trust isn’t there yet, and what you’re feeling is only the result of momentary emotions and brain chemistry, and therefore illusory in nature.

If physical contact is the only thing that makes you feel close to each other, there is a definite weakness in the relationship. Even married couples have to be apart from each other sometimes, due to fatigue, illness, business trips, recent childbirth, etc. Their relationships have to be built on more than physical intimacy, otherwise those periods of abstinence cause the marriage to crumble.

The best thing for you and your girlfriend right now would be to work on the real foundations of your relationship. Spend time together out in public, and around other people. Don’t be completely alone. That way you’ll have to talk and do things together, and much more than holding hands will be socially awkward. That’s why young couples used to always be chaperoned by their families.

Don’t make marriage plans until you can be without physical contact and still feel close.
 
LittleRose said:
If the only time you feel close to each other is when your hormones raging, that’s a sign that real trust isn’t there yet, and what you’re feeling is only the result of momentary emotions and brain chemistry, and therefore illusory in nature.

If physical contact is the only thing that makes you feel close to each other, there is a definite weakness in the relationship. Even married couples have to be apart from each other sometimes, due to fatigue, illness, business trips, recent childbirth, etc. Their relationships have to be built on more than physical intimacy, otherwise those periods of abstinence cause the marriage to crumble.

The best thing for you and your girlfriend right now would be to work on the real foundations of your relationship. Spend time together out in public, and around other people. Don’t be completely alone. That way you’ll have to talk and do things together, and much more than holding hands will be socially awkward. That’s why young couples used to always be chaperoned by their families.

Don’t make marriage plans until you can be without physical contact and still feel close.
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This exactly. 👍 Physical intimacy alone is not enough to hold a marriage together. You need to discern very carefully. G.K. Chesterton said clear thinking is the reward of chastity. This is the period for discernment, and you don’t want to muddy the waters, otherwise how can you know if your relationship can survive beyond the honeymoon phase?

You owe it to both yourself and the girl to sort out whether there is really something there, or whether you are just experiencing the natural intense bonding that intimate physical contact brings. Little Rose’s suggestion of a public setting is a good idea, because you can still be alone together, and get to know eachother while keeping the physical aspect simple, e.g. holding hands at the coffee shop, arm around her shoulders at the movies, simple kiss goodbye, etc.
 
Not necessarily.

My fiance and I fell a few times. We’ve never gone all the way but we’ve definitely gone beyond kissing. We’ve since ceased those activities and, even when we’ve fallen, always made sure to bring that to the confessional.

I love him, with or without that aspect. We also have known each other for years, been good friends, and then started dating. The only thing holding us back from a wedding is stable employment but things are coming together in that department.

However, I understand what you mean about the power of intimate moments. You feel very close to each other but there’s also an intense vulnerability, causing a need for trust. Also, I do feel love through physical affection in general so simply cutting it off does make me feel rejected. My fiance and I have worked to find a balance and, through God’s grace, have found it.

A few points of advice:
  1. Talk, talk, talk about your feelings and experiences. You won’t solve the problem until you have a God-driven conversation about this. Also, communication will lead to greater trust.
  2. Find other ways to show your love for each other. Pray together, tell each other verbally, do things for each other, and give gifts. Don’t cut out the physical completely, but tone it down. Light kisses, gentle hugs, holding hands, gently touching faces, maybe a dance class would be good to keep it physical but not sexual.
  3. Find things you like to do together. Hang out with mutual friends. Get out of your house. Sometimes, hanging out in a house, alone together, is a recipe for disaster. Go on a nature walk, go to museums, take a dance class, do church activities, volunteer together, take a pottery class.
This isn’t impossible to repair. I’ll pray for you.
 
My husband and I really struggled with this a lot when we were dating. This is what I think: if you’re only able to keep things smooth with your girlfriend by pushing the envelope sexually, then it doesn’t seem like you have a strong foundation, sexuality aside.

It also seems a little strange to me that both of your trust goes down when you guys are being “good”—shouldn’t it be the other way around? The only way to build chaste character is by living chastely----I would think that that would build trust, not erode it.

When my (now) husband and I struggled with this in our dating relationship, I had the mistaken notion that our problems with purity would go away once we got married, because, after all, we’d finally be able to have sex. WRONG. Instead, we brought the excess baggage of being wounded by impurity into our relationship. Instead of feeling respected and a person, body and soul, sometimes I feel my husband “lusts” after me. It has wounded our intimate relationship.

Be careful because you could find yourself feeling pressured to marry so that you could finally get the chance to act as husband and wife sexually, without having a good solid foundation in which you both chose to sacrifice the momentary pleasures for something greater: a deeper and spirit-filled bond.
 
NurseyJ said:
My husband and I really struggled with this a lot when we were dating. This is what I think: if you’re only able to keep things smooth with your girlfriend by pushing the envelope sexually, then it doesn’t seem like you have a strong foundation, sexuality aside.

It also seems a little strange to me that both of your trust goes down when you guys are being “good”—shouldn’t it be the other way around? The only way to build chaste character is by living chastely----I would think that that would build trust, not erode it.

When my (now) husband and I struggled with this in our dating relationship, I had the mistaken notion that our problems with purity would go away once we got married, because, after all, we’d finally be able to have sex. WRONG. Instead, we brought the excess baggage of being wounded by impurity into our relationship. **Instead of feeling respected and a person, body and soul, sometimes I feel my husband “lusts” after me. It has wounded our intimate relationship. **

Be careful because you could find yourself feeling pressured to marry so that you could finally get the chance to act as husband and wife sexually, without having a good solid foundation in which you both chose to sacrifice the momentary pleasures for something greater: a deeper and spirit-filled bond.
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Very nicely put - for a new member, this is

👍

You are spot on about what I bolded. I know this from the inside out because I lived it, and I feel my intimate life with my husband will never reach that “deeper, spirit-filled bond” as you put it. How could it, when we created it in the wrong way? Some things cannot be undone, or redone. With these matters, you get very few chances and then you are left with the consequences.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Very nicely put - for a new member, this is

👍

You are spot on about what I bolded. I know this from the inside out because I lived it, and I feel my intimate life with my husband will never reach that “deeper, spirit-filled bond” as you put it. How could it, when we created it in the wrong way? Some things cannot be undone, or redone. With these matters, you get very few chances and then you are left with the consequences.
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You are SO right Juliane, especially the parts I bolded. It’s amazing and a little scary how easily our minds, hearts, and souls cannot easily unlearn a bad pattern that is set in motion. Having good intentions is not enough. As St. Aquinas said: “An error in the beginning is an error indeed”. I wish that I knew during my dating relationship what I know now 😦 Now we are living with the consequences of damaging what should have been a beautiful and deeply forged bond–one that reflects God’s plan in Genesis 2:25: (me paraphrasing) “the man and the woman were naked and they were not ashamed”.
 
NurseyJ said:
You are SO right Juliane, especially the parts I bolded. It’s amazing and a little scary how easily our minds, hearts, and souls cannot easily unlearn a bad pattern that is set in motion. Having good intentions is not enough. As St. Aquinas said: “An error in the beginning is an error indeed”. I wish that I knew during my dating relationship what I know now 😦 Now we are living with the consequences of damaging what should have been a beautiful and deeply forged bond–one that reflects God’s plan in Genesis 2:25: (me paraphrasing) “the man and the woman were naked and they were not ashamed”.
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This problem is one that probably millions of people/couples have made, and every day, continue to make.

The center of our relationship to each other should be GOD. Putting sexual intimacy in that place means that GOD has no place in the relationship. God MUST come before sexual desire, or the sexual desire is disordered.

My husband is reading a book about the human brain/mind. He showed me a passage that says the best predictor of marital success is this equation.

Frequency of sex minus number of arguments = strength of marriage.

Notice how SEX is the most powerful factor in this equation. My equation would have been

Love of God + honoring of vows + Catholic Church = strong marriage

With sexual intimacy as a part of loving God. The words “holy” and “sex” are not at all connected in my husband’s mind. I admit they would have been difficult to reconcile for me, too, had I not returned to the Church and deeply desired a different relationship with God and with my husband.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
This problem is one that probably millions of people/couples have made, and every day, continue to make.

The center of our relationship to each other should be GOD. Putting sexual intimacy in that place means that GOD has no place in the relationship. God MUST come before sexual desire, or the sexual desire is disordered.

My husband is reading a book about the human brain/mind. He showed me a passage that says the best predictor of marital success is this equation.

Frequency of sex minus number of arguments = strength of marriage.

Notice how SEX is the most powerful factor in this equation. My equation would have been

Love of God + honoring of vows + Catholic Church = strong marriage

With sexual intimacy as a part of loving God. The words “holy” and “sex” are not at all connected in my husband’s mind. I admit they would have been difficult to reconcile for me, too, had I not returned to the Church and deeply desired a different relationship with God and with my husband.
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That is a great equation!
 
I believe you and your girlfriend are facing the truth of your relationship and that is that your sinning has caused you to lose trust for one another. Now that you have stopped your activities, you are seeing the trust that has been destroyed. You are seeing the truth.

This is a good thing. You have gotten past your blind denial of the consequences of your sin. Now you can begin to rebuild your trust for one another within the parameters of our loving God’s law.

Now that you have begun to control yourselves, you will be able to appreciate one another more. You will discover more about her and see even more of her beauty, and same with her to you. 🙂

Some go so far as to say that you cannot have love without trust. I believe you can, but it’s more innocent and more beautiful when you trust each other and do not become attached until you commit yourselves to each other.

One thing that works for me is to make sure that much of my love and affection is directed toward God. And all the excess longing I have for my significant other that keeps me wanting more than I should be having at this point in time, I will direct toward God.

May the Holy Spirit give you the grace and perseverance to continue your courtship in a healthy manner.
 
Hi I am reading a fiction romance novel and it said the characters kissed passionately. Does passionate kissing, similar to french kissing? Thank you.
 
If I could have re-done anything in my husband and my relationship…I would have stayed chaste until marriage.

I had no idea why it was so important to wait until it was way too late. Suffice to say I was visibly pregnant when he and I walked into our first pre-cana class and RCIA.

I cling to the fact that he and I are more then right for each other because we’ve worked very hard to change our ways and put God first in our relationship.

I think it was far easier to remain chaste during our engagement because of how horrified I felt when I finally learned what the Church taught and exactly why.

It is SO important to remain chaste until marriage. You know that God not only approves of sex but encourages it! There is no guilt and you have a green light to bond in every way a married couple is meant to bond.
 
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