Dating Is hard...but worth it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LAX87
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

LAX87

Guest
Hello all,

As expressed in my previous posts, I am a man who is attracted to other men. I have been living chastely for the past several months…in October, I decided I would try to start dating women again (I dated in high school and college).

Why?

I think it comes down to three reasons:

I want to ‘fit in’ – probably not a terribly good reason but I would like to hear from those of you who are married – what do you think of older singles at your parish? Are they viewed as strange, eccentric, pitiable?

I am afraid of what will happen to me in the future – I am not lonely now, but I think…what if I change my mind at 40? 50? 60? At that time…too late. What if I am 60 and I develop early onset Alzheimers? What if I am 85 and living alone and fall down and break my hip?

I want a child (well, boy, really). I want to relive, even as a spectator, all the fun I had growing up through sports.

How did it go? Not so well…I took seven women out on dates…five of whom I went on second dates with…three I saw at least three times, and two that I saw four times.

It is difficult for me to get along with women…The same issues that I had in high school and college kept coming up…I get annoyed when I receive more than a one text or one call in a day. More than annoyed…I’m trying to work on my temper, but it is hard to get to know and appreciate someone when receiving an innocuous, one-line text from her sends you into a fit of anger. I felt like I was being suffocated if I received an emoji to confirm dinner plans.

Although, at most, I went on four dates (so, really, how much can you get to know a person?), I found it hard to open up. I couldn’t get over banalities and surface-level banter…just because I don’t feel comfortable doing so. This is just my personality, I think…I don’t open up to other men, either. Outside of the confessional and spiritual director, I think this is the most I’ve written/spoken about my life, ever!

So, ultimately, it was an exercise in frustration. I still feel that there is a VISION for my life that includes marriage and children, but working that out in reality is harder.

I wanted to get this off my chest…and with that said, is there any advice you would have me take to heart? Is it worth getting back on the horse and continuing to look for the girl I can truly connect with? Take a break? Take monastic vows (I kid…the consecrated life, is not for me!)…

Thank you.
 
It sounds like you have some major soul searching to do. I also think you should re-evaluate your own goals and desires. What I hear you saying is you want to date, get married and have a BOY for your own insecure and selfish reasons. Everything you said is misogynistic, self-centered, and immature.

You said:
I want to ‘fit in’
Click to expand...
You are a man who is attracted to other men in a catholic church. Of course you don’t seem to “fit in.” No offense but this is a terrible reason to decide to get married. You should get married because you love someone and want to grow with them. I’m not hearing you say, “I want to get married but I just haven’t met the one.” I’m hearing you say, “I want to get married because I am supposed to.”
I am afraid of what will happen to me in the future
Click to expand...
Getting married won’t change what will happen to you in the future. You never know what can happen. I hear you saying you want to have someone there “just in case” something happens and you need someone to take care of you. While ideally marriage includes mutual support “until death do we part,” it is not the obligation of the other person. She could up and leave immediately after you get Alzheimer’s or cancer because she doesn’t want to deal with it.
I want a child (well, boy, really). I want to relive, even as a spectator, all the fun I had growing up through sports.
Click to expand...
Again, selfish. You want a son because you want to watch your son grow into a jock. There is NO guarantee that you would produce a boy. God forbid you have a girl and you despise her before she’s even born. But what really kills me here is you are assuming, already, that your son would even become a jock. There is absolutely no guarantee that your imaginary son would even enjoy sports, either.
It is difficult for me to get along with women…The same issues that I had in high school and college kept coming up…I get annoyed when I receive more than a one text or one call in a day. More than annoyed…I’m trying to work on my temper, but it is hard to get to know and appreciate someone when receiving an innocuous, one-line text from her sends you into a fit of anger. I felt like I was being suffocated if I received an emoji to confirm dinner plans.
Click to expand...
This sounds like a major anger management issue. I am saddened that an innocent text with an emoji can set you off into a spiral of anger like a Tasmanian devil. I can only imagine what a real argument or heated discussion is like with you!
Although, at most, I went on four dates (so, really, how much can you get to know a person?), I found it hard to open up. I couldn’t get over banalities and surface-level banter…just because I don’t feel comfortable doing so.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me? How much can you get to know a person? It sounds like you have only had surface-level dates. You have never gone deeper and really connected with anyone. I can see why. The fact that you don’t want to even get to know this women and don’t even “get along” with them tells me you’ve never REALLY truly liked a woman enough to get to know her. My experience has been when a guy likes a girl, he makes an effort because he wants to. You’re saying…four dates in, you’re not interesting enough, this is annoying, stop texting me, goodbye.

Four dates is hardly enough time to get to know someone, their personality, and their background. There is more to dating someone than learning what their favorite color and movies are. For all you know these women could’ve had a hard time opening up to you as well. Opening up happens naturally, over a period of time… not on the first few dates. I’ve been with the same person for years and we still learn new things about each other. This is also because we want to and genuinely like one another.

All in all, your post made me really sad. You wonder why you can’t keep a date, and all of the reasons why are listed in what I posted. Dating is not a chore, it’s supposed to be fun. You took all the fun out of it with your “personality traits.” Please take what I’ve said and seriously think about it.

I’ll be praying for you.
 
Praying to the Holy Spirit to give you guidance, direction, strength, fortitude & wisdom in your time of need.
 
It sounds like it might be difficult to just be a friend with you. It is difficult for you to be open with others and you have an anger problem. I don’t know any men or women that would really want a friend like that, so I think dating is kind of jumping the gun no matter what your age.

How about praying and working on preparing yourself to be a good friend to those around you? I know someone in my family whose life is full of strong close friendships. He is in his 60’s was divorced (not by choice), he has mentored many young people, has older foster children with children of their own that he is close to. He has been an active worker and volunteer. Although I and my husband have offered to help him with this or that we have never been contacted! His friends have always helped him in his emergencies and he also helps them.
I think if I asked this family member if he would have preferred to be single or married, he would say married, but by the same token I doubt very much that he would say his life is lonely or lacking in close relationships.

I don’t think its strange at all when there are single men or woman in church. When I was single I lived in a parish in Alaska for a year that started a singles club. It had people of all ages, including the priest. It was such a delight with people of all ages and of all circumstances. The purpose was not related to dating but rather to develop friendship with others that shared our faith. Each older single person had their own story, they were not strange but lovely.

God bless you on your journey and I hope you will get help with the problems that would prevent you from being a good friend to others.
 
First, I’m sorry for the difficulty you are having. I read your other posts and the overarching thought I had is that you appear to be trying resolve internal emotional conflicts with external means. Generally this doesn’t work so well. If you take some time to work on the internal, the external will take care of itself.

Good luck on your journey.
 
Please, LAX87, if you are same-sex attracted, leave women alone.

I have a gay family member who dated and married a woman. Obviously, they cared for each other, and she knew about his same-sex attraction. They thought he could change his attraction, compelling him to go through reparation therapy–without success, of course. He was miserable throughout most of this marriage, though they did have a child. Finally, she gave up and divorced him. He led a secret life while they were married. As members of a conservative Protestant denomination, he played straight to fit in.

For the most part, it was a life of despair for my family member and for the woman he married.

From your post, it sounds like you’d simply be using any women you spent time with. You obviously don’t care for them in any meaningful way. Meanwhile, they might be falling for you.
 
I really cannot ignore what post #2 said, and I think you need to take a good, hard look at it.

I don’t agree that you should just stay away from women if you have SSA based on the possibility of bisexuality, but I always say not to marry someone you are not attracted to. And don’t play straight just to fit in as #7 said.

If you’re getting spiritual direction, I’m not sure why you are on here other than maybe just being frustrated and needing an outlet.
 
In what ways do you not get along with women? I don’t mean to sound like a troglodyte, but in my experience most gay men get along quite well with women.

I have a tendency to get along too well with women and not really enjoy the company of men. Which means I don’t have many guy friends and once-in-a-while drift closer to female friends than a married man should.

…now that I re-read that, it almost seems like I should be the SSA one and you should be the straight one…:o 🙂
 
LAX87 said:
Hello all,

As expressed in my previous posts, I am a man who is attracted to other men. I have been living chastely for the past several months…in October, I decided I would try to start dating women again (I dated in high school and college).

Why?

I think it comes down to three reasons:

I want to ‘fit in’ – probably not a terribly good reason but I would like to hear from those of you who are married – what do you think of older singles at your parish? Are they viewed as strange, eccentric, pitiable?

Wanting to “fit in” is a terrible reason to pursue marriage, especially with same sex attraction.

I am afraid of what will happen to me in the future – I am not lonely now, but I think…what if I change my mind at 40? 50? 60? At that time…too late. What if I am 60 and I develop early onset Alzheimers? What if I am 85 and living alone and fall down and break my hip?

I want a child (well, boy, really). I want to relive, even as a spectator, all the fun I had growing up through sports.

**You might get a girl or two, you know.

Also, if you get a boy or two, they might be sensitive and artistic instead. Lots of straight men are disappointed when they have sons like that.

A child is not a clone of our young selves.**

How did it go? Not so well…I took seven women out on dates…five of whom I went on second dates with…three I saw at least three times, and two that I saw four times.

I think most people would find that a very good start to dating.

It is difficult for me to get along with women…

Then don’t marry one.

The same issues that I had in high school and college kept coming up…I get annoyed when I receive more than a one text or one call in a day.

**I see where you’re coming from with regard to more than one call, but people who text tend to text in spurts. More than one text just means, “I’m interested,” especially in an early dating relationship.

Socially, the way one manages that is by not replying when one is by not continuing to do back and forth indefinitely. **

More than annoyed…I’m trying to work on my temper, but it is hard to get to know and appreciate someone when receiving an innocuous, one-line text from her sends you into a fit of anger. I felt like I was being suffocated if I received an emoji to confirm dinner plans.

**How about working with a therapist on your anger issues? **

Although, at most, I went on four dates (so, really, how much can you get to know a person?), I found it hard to open up.

Four dates is plenty to get to know somebody who wants to be known.

I couldn’t get over banalities and surface-level banter…just because I don’t feel comfortable doing so. This is just my personality, I think…I don’t open up to other men, either. Outside of the confessional and spiritual director, I think this is the most I’ve written/spoken about my life, ever!

How about working on your friendships?

So, ultimately, it was an exercise in frustration. I still feel that there is a VISION for my life that includes marriage and children, but working that out in reality is harder.

**You are planning to explain that you have same sex attraction eventually, right?

Otherwise, you could be setting up yourself and your intended for an invalid marriage.
**
I wanted to get this off my chest…and with that said, is there any advice you would have me take to heart? Is it worth getting back on the horse and continuing to look for the girl I can truly connect with? Take a break? Take monastic vows (I kid…the consecrated life, is not for me!)…

Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
LAX87 said:
Hello all,

As expressed in my previous posts, I am a man who is attracted to other men. I have been living chastely for the past several months…in October, I decided I would try to start dating women again (I dated in high school and college).

Why?

I think it comes down to three reasons:

I want to ‘fit in’ – probably not a terribly good reason but I would like to hear from those of you who are married – what do you think of older singles at your parish? Are they viewed as strange, eccentric, pitiable?

I’m a single olderish male and I have no idea how I’m viewed at my parish. I get along well with the Religious Education Director because I teach CCD. Not involved in a lot of activities though. Frankly, I really don’t care what other people think of me and never felt like that should be a driver to how I live my life.

I am afraid of what will happen to me in the future – I am not lonely now, but I think…what if I change my mind at 40? 50? 60? At that time…too late. What if I am 60 and I develop early onset Alzheimers? What if I am 85 and living alone and fall down and break my hip?

40 to 60 isn’t too late to date and meet someone. What if your partner encounters those problems? What if your partner dies before you hit 85? If you’re worried about ‘being taken care of’ get a long term health/assisted living insurance policy. Good to be dating when you’re not lonely though so you don’t rush into something for the wrong reasons.

I want a child (well, boy, really). I want to relive, even as a spectator, all the fun I had growing up through sports.

Normal kind of view. As someone else mentioned, it may not work that way. I was big into sports as a kid, my son is huge into gaming with not much interest in sports. But I love him dearly and it’s great seeing his enthusiasm about it. You’ll find the same- you’ll enjoy seeing your kids find and pursue their passions in life even if they’re very different than your own.

How did it go? Not so well…I took seven women out on dates…five of whom I went on second dates with…three I saw at least three times, and two that I saw four times.

It is difficult for me to get along with women…The same issues that I had in high school and college kept coming up…I get annoyed when I receive more than a one text or one call in a day. More than annoyed…I’m trying to work on my temper, but it is hard to get to know and appreciate someone when receiving an innocuous, one-line text from her sends you into a fit of anger. I felt like I was being suffocated if I received an emoji to confirm dinner plans.

Sounds like you’re dealing with a lot of frustration with no place to vent it. What do you do for release, to get your mind right? For me it’s motorcycles and working out. If little things are irritating you it may not be the female aspect at all, just underlying frustration with no place else to vent it.

Although, at most, I went on four dates (so, really, how much can you get to know a person?), I found it hard to open up. I couldn’t get over banalities and surface-level banter…just because I don’t feel comfortable doing so. This is just my personality, I think…I don’t open up to other men, either. Outside of the confessional and spiritual director, I think this is the most I’ve written/spoken about my life, ever!

What are you doing on your dates? Activities you enjoy, or just some pro-forma routine you think constitutes a ‘date’. If you’re going beyond the first two dates, hopefully you’ve asked the lady what activity she enjoys doing and taking her to do that. Seeing her on her own turf so to speak. Observing her enjoying something and letting her tell you about it, educate you. I find people are the most fascinating when you get them in their element, where they’re comfortable.

So, ultimately, it was an exercise in frustration. I still feel that there is a VISION for my life that includes marriage and children, but working that out in reality is harder.

Reality is always harder than we expect. And can be more rewarding.

I wanted to get this off my chest…and with that said, is there any advice you would have me take to heart? Is it worth getting back on the horse and continuing to look for the girl I can truly connect with? Take a break? Take monastic vows (I kid…the consecrated life, is not for me!)…

First, counseling/therapy to determine why small things are so irritating. I a have the same issue at times. For me, motorcycles and working out clear my head and make everything else less irritating and easier to cope with.

Second. Advice from competent folks on the extent of your SSA and your ability to appreciate the opposite sex. I have no experience with that and how much for you is just being more comfortable in general around guys vice sexual attraction.

Third. Look at your dating strategy- if you want to get beyond the banal/surface stuff you do have to go beyond a couple of dates. Although there was an interesting study about making a connection by having folks go through a series of very deep questions right away. As I said above, figure out what a woman likes to do and have that activity be a date and try to get them to open up a bit more. Most conversations tend to be transactions in nature, we naturally tend to open up more when we believe the other person is opening up more.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
It’s not fair to do this to the women. Be honest and up-front about your same-sex attraction and have chaste friendships with people of both sexes. As thankulord said, having a wide circle of friends is a better way of having support - and it shouldn’t be one-sided, either, you should do things for those people. You’ll grow more as a person, and if the stigma of being single in a coupled world doesn’t entirely go away, you’ll find over the years it at least does diminish quite a bit. I’m a 52-year-old lady who hoped to marry and have kids but it didn’t happen. It wasn’t easy to accept; even now occasionally I have my days of going “Why didn’t it happen, Lord?” But for the most part I am more able than ever to see my blessings. And I’m certainly glad I didn’t marry the men who weren’t right for me and with whom it would’ve been fraught with tension and conflict.

This modern world does push us to see spouses and children as a means to our own happiness rather than as individuals in their own right - a dangerous temptation that one must always resist.
 
“Tough love” response coming…

Think about the ladies you are dating instead of yourself for a few moments. It seems like you are just using them, to be honest, as an experiment to see if you can get past the SSA and get to your end goal of marriage and kids. The three reasons you listed - fitting in, wanting a child, not wanting to be alone - scream “It’s all about me!”

And marriage and kids are the complete opposite of “It’s all about me!”

If you have SSA, you need to be honest and tell her.

If you have extreme anger issues over a text to confirm dinner plans, seek some help for that. Don’t accept that as normal. You can work on that.

Stop worrying about dating, and start worrying about what you can do to help other people and how you can improve yourself. Go volunteer somewhere, help kids, get more involved with church related activities, and pray, pray, pray for God to use your life for good.
 
The anger issues are far more concerning for me than are the SSA issues.

As long as you find women attractive too, then SSA is a burden that can be managed.

But your anger, as you describe it, makes you unsuited to married life. Your anger is far from normal and far from appropriate to consider subjecting another person to it in the context of a relationship. Work out your anger issues, via counselling I’d suggest, before you go further in your dating experimentations.
 
I think there’s a lot of men and women out there who are married, have SSA, and manage to keep things under control.

SSA is a topic that can’t be seen as a black-and-white thing. Lots of conservative folks are quick to scream at it until it goes away, and there are many who claim they have no idea what it’s about when in fact, it’s probably suppressed.

As for the OP, you need to find out WHY you get irritated with texts. It’s 2015 - people text. Girls text a lot. If you’re in a relation, contact of any type is normal. You sound resentful of this contact.

Four dates is not enough to get to know someone. Banter and pleasantries are part of the dating game. Another term is called flirting.

How strong is that SSA of yours? Did you have relationships with men and women before? I think many Millenials have “experimented” - some secretly, others not-so-much.

You have to ask yourself - “Where do I feel most satisfied?” Is this with God, with a man, or with a woman.

I’m not advocating for you to have more same-sex relationships, but it’s your life, not mine.

In the present day, I think there’s quite a number of young adults out there who maybe go “both ways,”…not bisexual…not straight…have some SSA…have a lot of SSA.

Perhaps seek out a girl who may also have SSA but wants to be in a heterosexual relationship that ultimately leads her and her spouse to a holy union, blessed with children.

I don’t think this is an invalid marraige. God doesn’t want us to live miserable, lonely lives, nor does He want us in quickie marriages, either.

Easier said than done? Maybe. Thank God for dating websites.

You’re also worrying too much about the future. EVERYONE worries about growing old and dying alone. There’s retirement homes and nursing homes for this. Are you aware of the large number of seniors who were bachelor-bachelorettes their whole lives and marry in senior centers?
I’m not saying you’re going to be one of them. But how many may have SSA to a varying degree? How many didn’t just find the “the one”? How many of them marry in a heterosexual marraige late in life, even though one may have SSA? I’m willing to bet quite a few - I think as people grow older, they find beauty and love in others that they didn’t find before, if their hearts are open to it; SSA notwithstanding there.
Did some stay unmarried for love of God? Maybe.

I appreciate your honesty here, and I’ll pray for you. Don’t let the negative commentators get you down.
 
Well here’s the thing if you want to date women then you’re going to have to like them as people first along with that comes generally a lot of talking a communicating. People text all the time these day it’s a cultural thing and not something to take overall seriously. I’m not really of the texting generation myself and find it annoying and perplexing at times but I just go with the flow. My sister has tried to have whole conversation via text and there’s where I draw the line. I text slow and find it burdensome. Anyway most women are big communicators…and talk that’s how we communicate. You really should read the book Women are from Venus and Men are from mars…it’s very eye opening. Guys are problem solvers and often don’t need to go over their whole day with their partner for example while women often feel the need to talk about their entire day. Best of luck.
 
It sounds as if you are trying to use dating to “fix” the various frustrations and unhappinesses you have with your day-to-day life. This will not work. No wonder you feel angry with these young women when they start to (innocently) impinge upon your life, because it doesn’t sound as if you are interested in them at all. Friendships like this wouldn’t work, so why would dating? You mustn’t try to use other human beings in this way.

It sounds as if you need proper psychotherapy with a good therapist (not counsellor) in order to discuss your anger and your feelings about your sexuality. Good therapy can be life-changing. Step away from this inappropriate dating and take the time to focus on yourself first. It sounds cheesy, but be kind to yourself!

As for fitting in, the church has always taught that that some people are “not called to marriage”. Nobody should ever make you feel ashamed or ostracised for being unmarried and if they do then the problem lies with them, not you.
 
Dulcie said:
It sounds as if you are trying to use dating to “fix” the various frustrations and unhappinesses you have with your day-to-day life. This will not work. No wonder you feel angry with these young women when they start to (innocently) impinge upon your life, because it doesn’t sound as if you are interested in them at all. Friendships like this wouldn’t work, so why would dating? You mustn’t try to use other human beings in this way.

It sounds as if you need proper psychotherapy with a good therapist (not counsellor) in order to discuss your anger and your feelings about your sexuality. Good therapy can be life-changing. Step away from this inappropriate dating and take the time to focus on yourself first. It sounds cheesy, but be kind to yourself!

As for fitting in, the church has always taught that that some people are “not called to marriage”. Nobody should ever make you feel ashamed or ostracised for being unmarried and if they do then the problem lies with them, not you.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, especially the part about the counseling. Please get help. I think there are many issues in your life that need to be resolved before you pursue romantic relationships with anyone, male or female. I like the way Dulcie expresses it–focus on yourself!

Stop worrying about the future. You sound like you are a long way away from Alzheimers. 🙂 Live in the present, and make sensible plans for your future as a single person by establishing some retirement investments and making sure that you are insured so that you will be cared for (in a rehab home, etc.) should you become seriously ill.

Even if you are married, there’s no guarantee that your spouse would “take care of you.” Some spouses will divorce a spouse who becomes gravely ill, not out of selfishness, but out of despair–not everyone can deal with Alzheimer’s and other serious illnesses. Yes, it’s wrong (marriage is supposed to last through all circumstances), but people are weak humans and dealing with a seriously-ill person constantly is exhausting and debilitating, and sometimes people just give up.

I suggest that instead of seeking out a person for a “relationship,” instead, you seek out and get involved with activities and venues that you enjoy. Get involved with the arts, sports (either as a participant or a fan), charities, environmental issues, fitness and health, politics, hobbies, travelling, etc.–whatever you like. If you like solitary activities, that’s fine–there are plenty of clubs and organizations that support these activities; e.g., book clubs for readers, or running groups for runners. Or maybe you just like sitting in a park and feeding the birds–go do it! You’ll meet others who love sitting in parks and feeding birds!

When you do what you love, you will meet others of both sexes who also love it, and that will be a basis for genuine friendships. Perhaps one of the friendships will grow into a romance, but don’t think about that. Just enjoy your activity or interest, and learn more about it from others who enjoy it, too.

And if you’re doing an activity that you love along with others, you don’t have to worry too much about your own personality quirks and problems. Often others will be willing to put up with any negative personality traits for the sake of the activity. E.g., there are lots of people in our figure skating club that I don’t really have strong feelings of friendship for, but I don’t mind spending time with them at a figure skating event, competition, or ice show because I love the sport, and so do they.
 
Thanks to everyone who replied.

I am getting my anger issues under control, but it is one step forward, two steps back. Still, I’m much better than I was even just a year ago. Praying always helps.

Yes, I think, right now, I will not date, for several reasons – well, more money in my pocket!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top