Dating, Part 2

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Hi All,

Building off my first thread (“Dating”), I am looking for slightly more specific information regarding the dating process. Very little is available for faithful Catholics (most borders on smut! :eek:).

Dating seems complicated. Since I am looking ultimately towards marriage, I don’t quite want to be entangled into a “long term” relationship… does that make sense?

Most of my friends, admittedly all in their mid-twenties range, seem to hop into a relationship with any girl that pays attention to them for more than five minutes (with ‘hilarious’ results… :(). What is a better way?

I’ve only started dating again in the past few after a respite of healing follow an ok relationship that ended badly. I’m casually seeing at least two women, whom I both like, and am not sure where to go with either. I am a long way before committing to anyone, having learned from the aforementioned one, but do I keep seeing both in the mean time? Gently end it with both? See others as well?

What is the best way to communicate with all involved? It is getting kind of stressful.
 
I don’t know if you are a man or a woman but the book “A catholic girl’s guide to the single years” is very good for dating. If you are a man then…I would try to see if Jason Evert has anything out on dating.

Also, if you do not see a future for yourself with either of these woman I would not continue to date them. Maybe try to meet women in a more “friendly” atmosphere like group dating instead of romantically dating if you are still not quite ready for a serious relationship. One should not be dating unless they are preparing for marriage.
 
Hi All,

Building off my first thread (“Dating”), I am looking for slightly more specific information regarding the dating process. Very little is available for faithful Catholics (most borders on smut! :eek:).

Dating seems complicated.
It is and it isn’t. Maintain your sincerity as much as you can, communicate as clearly as you can.
Since I am looking ultimately towards marriage, I don’t quite want to be entangled into a “long term” relationship… does that make sense?
Perfect sense. My opinion is that people who *want *to be in long term relationships are the ones who get entangled and run in to trouble. Why? Because they put the priority on the relationship rather than the person they’re in the relationship with.

I had a friend who jumped to the “we’re getting engaged” stage twice when it was pretty clear to the rest of us that the women weren’t that into him. The third time it worked: they got married. For a little while.
What is the best way to communicate with all involved? It is getting kind of stressful.
Be sincere. That’s not to say you should bare your soul, but be clear, be sincere.
 
Hi All,

Building off my first thread (“Dating”), I am looking for slightly more specific information regarding the dating process. Very little is available for faithful Catholics (most borders on smut! :eek:).

Dating seems complicated. Since I am looking ultimately towards marriage, I don’t quite want to be entangled into a “long term” relationship… does that make sense?

Most of my friends, admittedly all in their mid-twenties range, seem to hop into a relationship with any girl that pays attention to them for more than five minutes (with ‘hilarious’ results… :(). What is a better way?

I’ve only started dating again in the past few after a respite of healing follow an ok relationship that ended badly. I’m casually seeing at least two women, whom I both like, and am not sure where to go with either. I am a long way before committing to anyone, having learned from the aforementioned one, but do I keep seeing both in the mean time? Gently end it with both? See others as well?

What is the best way to communicate with all involved? It is getting kind of stressful.
One way is to start of as friends with anybody you intend to date. Go through a friendship stage for a long enough time, probably at least 4-6 months before dating. That way, you can have time to see what you are dealing with.

I would see to continue to see both women, as friends only. With time, I think things will be revealed, who you are more compatible with, etc. It will come to light given more time.
 
If you are a long way from committing to anyone, make that abundantly clear to any woman you date. This way they will know that you are potentially dating others and if they are looking for a committed relationship, they can end any dating relationship with you before they get hurt. This also means no “relationship” behavior with your dates, even hand holding.

It sounds like it might be better for you to just develop good friendships rather than even date anyone right now. Dating is a precursor to marriage and if you’re not interested in anything serious for the time being (which is fine), it’s probably best to keep yourself “off the market” until you are ready for a serious relationship.
 
I don’t know if you are a man or a woman but the book “A catholic girl’s guide to the single years” is very good for dating. If you are a man then…I would try to see if Jason Evert has anything out on dating.
Man. Wouldn’t be looking for advice about dating two women here otherwise… 😉
 
Man. Wouldn’t be looking for advice about dating two women here otherwise… 😉
I’m not quite sure I understand your statement but the book I mentioned was for women…so I don’t think a man would find it very helpful
 
Starting slow, and honesty about intentions seems to be consensus here.

What does a “serious” Christian relationship look like? How long does it last?
 
I wonder why everyone is saying that dating is only to be done before marriage? Like anyone can discern that the person they are meant to marry will be obvious before dating?
I have had many friends who treated every date like “this is the one…I HAVE to make this work” and they ignored all kinds of signs to the contrary. There have even been recent posts by people who are convinced that it’s God’s will for them to remain with someone who is clearly wrong for them.
I say, date as much as you want. This does not mean, get intimate with everyone, it does not mean to pressure everyone about their intentions, it does not mean you turn in to a playboy. It just means, get out there and meet people! Go out in groups! Go to Catholic Singles groups around, and make new friends who are sincere about their faith. How many times have people said “I was not initially attracted to him/her, but they turned out to be a blessing and a wonderful match for me”.
Dating is normal and natural. Just keep it casual, and don’t put incredible expectations on yourself or anyone else. If a person is meant for you, God will reveal it to you. 😉
 
If the end goal is marriage, then I offer the following, based on experience and what I was taught in Catholic school.
  1. Guys prefer attractive girls. So, you can ask if she would like to go out with you. If she says yes, pick a place like a restaurant (doesn’t have to be fancy, but nice) to talk over dinner.
  2. Depending on how much or how little you know each other, just have fun chatting. I usually include questions like, “How are things going at work or school,” I tell her a little about me and my family. And I usually bring up a question or two that is on my mind, like “What do you think about this?” It could be anything.
  3. As you talk, you’ll pick up clues like “she’s nice or kind of self-absorbed,” “she does or does not have a sense of humor,” and “she’s easy to talk to or kind of quiet and reserved.”
  4. If both of you had a good time talking and maybe even laughing about a few things, then there’s potential. She might say, “Let’s do this again,” or “I really enjoyed talking to you. It was fun. Call me.” And you can say the same.
If the dating continues, just be honest and open toward each other. Ask her what she’d like her future to be like. She might mention getting a certain job or even that she’d like to get married one day. If she mentions marriage, you can casually say, “Yeah, me too.”

THERE IS NO QUICK WAY TO DO THIS.

Once you find that you enjoy each other’s company then you begin to earn each other’s trust. That is SO important in ANY relationship. You become friends.

NOTE: After you get married, MOST of your time will not be spent in the sack. Nowadays, both spouses need to work. And don’t blow big money on a big wedding with an expensive honeymoon. More on that later.

Once both of you decide that you might be compatible enough to be married, then you enter the courtship phase. You should meet her family and she should meet yours. After all, they may be your future in-laws. And having that relationship means a lot.

Finally, if you’re both willing, sit down with her mom or dad and say, “I want to marry your daughter.” Now they were your age once. They get it. Usually, you will get all the practical questions. Dad knows his daughter is a babe - he knows what that feels like. He ask things like, “So, where are you going to live?” Transportation? Do you have cars in good working order or are you driving a clunker that is bleeding you of cash? Have you saved any money? He might be concerned if you’re a smoker, heavy drinker, addicted to gambling or seem not very ambitious. It’s not about hurting your feelings, but making sure his daughter ends up with a guy who’s ready to take up the responsibilities of married life and shows that you are ready and know what’s ahead.

Then the engagement period starts. MAKE SURE YOU ASK HE WHAT SHE EXPECTS FROM MARRIED LIFE !! Kids? A lot of stuff? A big house?

My last girlfriend was a total doll. While we were talking about getting married, I asked her what she expected. She had a list. Not a physical list, but it all came out.

A big house in a very expensive part of town.

Money for clothes and jewelry (trust me, she had great taste in both).

Money for trips. You know, flying here or there.

I thought she came from a lower middle-class background like me. Uh, uh. If I was taking home, or we were taking home, $200K a year, it might have worked. And I could tell, right then, that she would be VERY unhappy if I could not provide her with all of the above.

I broke it off. She moved. Quickly found another guy and got married.

Then there’s the spiritual side which is very, very important. Are the two of you on the same page regarding your faith? Go to a priest - both of you. Make an appointment even if there are no obvious issues. It will not be good for your marriage if you find out, after the fact, that she’s for something the Church clearly teaches is wrong.

Lastly, you will spend whatever free time you have with each other. You need that. Promise each other that you will talk, honestly, about any annoying habits or other issues that you have with each other. That kind of honest communication will get you through the rough spots, and there will be rough spots. I have a friend who’s married to a total doll and I’ve known them for a long time. His wife is a good friend of mine. Even though they had one child, who’s now grown, they’ve had to deal with personal issues and in-law issues. Fortunately, their daughter has not gotten into dope or booze or minor criminal activity.

Life will have its ups and downs. Plan for what you’d do if you lost your job. Having a little money on the side is always good. Or if one of you gets sick, make sure you’ve got insurance. It’s OK to have some nice things, or some really nice things, but try to live within your means. It seems money causes more problems than it’s worth. If you can’t afford it, either start saving for it, or find a way to make a little extra cash. Don’t get to the point where you’re yelling at each other about the bills. Budget your money. Set aside the money you need for the basics, and set aside any that’s left over for some fun stuff. Fun is good, but not laying in bed wondering how you’re going to pay your bills. Saving up for something is better than putting it on your credit card and paying 18%.

Married life is joyful, but even for those who are not married, we still have relationships that can have ups and downs, but if you’re really friends, you find a way to work it out.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Starting slow, and honesty about intentions seems to be consensus here.

What does a “serious” Christian relationship look like? How long does it last?
I’d say this is a relationship where both parties act appropriately to the stage of dating they are in, both physically and emotionally. One where both make it clear how much they enjoy the other’s company, and don’t leave each other guessing how the other is feeling. Once you are serious with someone, talking about all the important things before deciding to get engaged- religion, money, kids, work, relationships with family, etc.

As for how long it lasts- that will depend on the couple. Some couples move rather quickly through the discernment process, and others take a lot more time.
 
I wonder why everyone is saying that dating is only to be done before marriage? Like anyone can discern that the person they are meant to marry will be obvious before dating?
Because at some point, you have to become an exclusive couple. People don’t generally go from “casually dating multiple people” to engaged overnight. There’s nothing wrong with dating a few people at once, as long as you are up front and aren’t acting like you’re in an exclusive relationship.

But the OP mentioned that he doesn’t feel he will be ready to be in a committed relationship for a long while, in which case I’m not sure what the point of romantic dating would be. It seems counter-intuitive to go looking for a spouse when you’re not ready to be serious with anyone. Much better to get to know people as friends without attaching any romantic meaning to it.
 
Your goals seem to contradict. On the one hand it seems like you don’t want to waste time with someone who isn’t marriage potential. On the other, you say you aren’t ready for a committed relationship, let alone marriage.

Assuming that you really aren’t looking to get hitched any time soon, my advice is to go on as many dates with as many different people as you can. Keep things casual, make lots of friends, and try to learn about people. You’ll be shocked at how much you can learn about yourself, too. Just don’t go into it with the attitude that you’re trying to determine if you could make a lifelong commitment or not - start by trying to determine if you’d like a 2nd date. You can take a few dates to figure that out without it having to turn into something serious - especially if you’re not looking to actually get married anytime soon.

And don’t limit yourself to dinner and a movie. Be adventurous - live a little! Some of the best dates I ever went on were doing new things - zip-lining, golf, skiing. I had a running date where a woman and I went for a 2 hour run that was one of the best dates I ever went on.

I think people take dating far too seriously, especially when they are meeting someone new. Go out, have fun, gain some experience interacting with the opposite sex.
 
Think along a spectrum:
  1. Meet people
  2. Exchange ideas. This is where you tell people how you see yourself ready for marriage in one, two, five, ten years, whatever is the truth. But don’t just talk about marriage, talk about faith, beliefs, culture, your families, politics, etc. Learn about women. We are not all money grubbing golddiggers. Some of us don’t emulate television and movie behavior. Some of us are living our own real lives, carrying jobs, dealing with friends and family, school, real life. Trying to make sense out of the dating culture, too. Discerning the B.S. from the truth. Wondering if it’s better to be single until you absolutely find the right person or is it better to deal with the rough edges of someone who is sort of right but not Mr Perfect.
  3. Ask around to older people and happily marrieds: how do you recognize if someone is a good person? How do you spot a dishonest person? How do you know if they are right for YOU. Listen to people’s answers. Ask them if they know anyone you might like to meet.
  4. Be straightforward if you are “just dating”. Some women think men are pretending when they say they are not ready for marriage. Some men ARE pretending when they say they are not ready. Some men get nabbed when they are not ready. Make it very clear that you are meeting different people and tell them you are not dating like on “The Bachelor” where the man gets intimate with three or four women and chooses at the end of the season (and then the engagement gets broken after all the hype is over). If someone gets pushy, don’t call her again and don’t answer the phone and don’t think you have to be nice. Just keep looking.
  5. Ask your friends and family to look around for someone they think is nice for you and give the woman at least one date. Always be polite but don’t be a pushover. Women like manners but too much easiness and flattery can look like a scam.
  6. Go to places where people are doing things like a beach clean-up or building homes for the poor or a foodbank and watch how the women interact with others. Go to family picnics and watch how they behave around children.
  7. Do something you like to do (like bowling, watching ice hockey, fishing) and do something she likes to do (like dancing, biking or flying a kite) and see how you both handle new experiences and doing things you don’t really like. If she is kind, honest, and fun but tells you she hates bowling, that could be good. She doesn’t lie but she doesn’t judge you for some of your hobbies. It’s about compatibility, not sameness on everything.
8.Think about the core values of marriage: getting along despite differences, enduring hardships, sense of humor, hard working, humility, going long distance not just a quick spurt of cuteness. Genuinely caring for each other, Able to love others. Able to be a friend. Sharing. Generous. Warm. Honest but not too honest (You don’t need to know about past boyfriends if they are strong and good in the present with you.) Nurture friendships with women who have those traits.
  1. Work and save money.
  2. When you are ready and have met someone you like, then you begin to set up dates to see how you both get along with each other’s family and friends and you really start to discern if this is a good match for BOTH of you.
 
I don’t think there are any hard rules about dating. Remember, in Christ’s time, marriages were arranged. Romantic love used to be viewed as merely a form of lust that tempted people to commit adultery and to fornicate.

We’ve only been marrying for love for the past few hundred years, and I don’t believe we’ve ever found a perfect system for choosing a good spouse. When I was single, I read a ton of books on courtship: I kissed dating goodbye, boy meets girl, the ABCs of choosing a good husband. The principals in them seemed good, but I found there were so many different ideas about the approach that even when I went to Catholic dating sites, there was great confusion over how to approach things.

I also found that going out with several people at once was impossible. It was hard enough finding anyone I was willing to date. Moreover, it can definitely turn into leading someone on just so that you’re “dating” more than one person so that you can keep things more casual with the other person.

The best book I have read is “Wing to Wing, Oar to Oar” which covers the history of dating and how our approach to marriage has changed. It’s a compilation of multiple texts that were compiled by Dr. Leon Kass and his wife.

Since finding local people to date was nearly impossible, I did meet some guys through Catholic dating sites that didn’t live locally. With the long distance, traveling to meet and see each other on a regular enough basis to get to know each other does take a dedicated commitment and investment.

I would caution you against thinking that there is a perfect way date that will prevent you from experiencing hardships and struggles in your marriage. I would also caution you away from thinking that you ought to jump from dating so casually that you only know the person on a superficial level to engagement as prudent either.

The problem with the culture, I think, is that people are afraid of marriage. So they date exclusively for far too long and mimic the married lifestyle by living together and sometimes even having children for years.

Try not to feel pressure to get exclusive with someone, but do realize that generally speaking, when you call something “a date” people tend to get expectations that you’re romantically interested in them even if sex isn’t in the picture.

I think since the dating environment is so different than it was in the 50’s and early 60’s and so much time has passed, its impossible to attempt to live as if we’re in this era. Even with books covering it, its just downright confusing to figure out people’s intentions. Generally speaking, unless you’re thinking “This is a person I would like to get to know better to explore the possibility of marriage with.” I’d advise using terms like “hanging out.” And if you’re meeting someone from the internet who lives a far way, traveling hours and spending money does mean there is an interest.

Do, also, remember, that in arranged marriages, typically the parents or the matchmaker picks out the couple. The couple is given a time period to get to know each other with the expectation that they’ll likely marry, but throughout that period, they can opt out. So these are two near strangers who get to know each other with the expectation that they’ll likely marry.

Again, no perfect system. There is simply the morality that guides us in knowing that fornication is gravely wrong. And the entire reason our culture dates and lives together for so long before marriage is because that is their new system for trying to guarentee marital happiness. They think “If I can build my life with this person for 7 years happily, than that proves we’ll have a happy marriage.”
 
You are hitting on the nail the problems and concerns I’m having!
I don’t think there are any hard rules about dating. Remember, in Christ’s time, marriages were arranged. Romantic love used to be viewed as merely a form of lust that tempted people to commit adultery and to fornicate.

We’ve only been marrying for love for the past few hundred years, and I don’t believe we’ve ever found a perfect system for choosing a good spouse. When I was single, I read a ton of books on courtship: I kissed dating goodbye, boy meets girl, the ABCs of choosing a good husband. The principals in them seemed good, but I found there were so many different ideas about the approach that even when I went to Catholic dating sites, there was great confusion over how to approach things.

I also found that going out with several people at once was impossible. It was hard enough finding anyone I was willing to date. Moreover, it can definitely turn into leading someone on just so that you’re “dating” more than one person so that you can keep things more casual with the other person.
“Leading on” is definately something that worries me. I really like both women, but I don’t know where to go with either, if anywhere. Romantically, I’m potentially interested, but these are only the first few women I’ve been on a date with in years, and I don’t want to run into anything.
The best book I have read is “Wing to Wing, Oar to Oar” which covers the history of dating and how our approach to marriage has changed. It’s a compilation of multiple texts that were compiled by Dr. Leon Kass and his wife.
Since finding local people to date was nearly impossible, I did meet some guys through Catholic dating sites that didn’t live locally. With the long distance, traveling to meet and see each other on a regular enough basis to get to know each other does take a dedicated commitment and investment.
I would caution you against thinking that there is a perfect way date that will prevent you from experiencing hardships and struggles in your marriage. I would also caution you away from thinking that you ought to jump from dating so casually that you only know the person on a superficial level to engagement as prudent either.
The problem with the culture, I think, is that people are afraid of marriage. So they date exclusively for far too long and mimic the married lifestyle by living together and sometimes even having children for years.
I hold heartedly agree. The “model” is flawed, and I’m left winging it! 🙂
Try not to feel pressure to get exclusive with someone, but do realize that generally speaking, when you call something “a date” people tend to get expectations that you’re romantically interested in them even if sex isn’t in the picture.
I think since the dating environment is so different than it was in the 50’s and early 60’s and so much time has passed, its impossible to attempt to live as if we’re in this era. Even with books covering it, its just downright confusing to figure out people’s intentions. Generally speaking, unless you’re thinking “This is a person I would like to get to know better to explore the possibility of marriage with.” I’d advise using terms like “hanging out.” And if you’re meeting someone from the internet who lives a far way, traveling hours and spending money does mean there is an interest.
This may be part of it. I’m definitely interested, but want to move very slowly…
Do, also, remember, that in arranged marriages, typically the parents or the matchmaker picks out the couple. The couple is given a time period to get to know each other with the expectation that they’ll likely marry, but throughout that period, they can opt out. So these are two near strangers who get to know each other with the expectation that they’ll likely marry.
Again, no perfect system. There is simply the morality that guides us in knowing that fornication is gravely wrong. And the entire reason our culture dates and lives together for so long before marriage is because that is their new system for trying to guarentee marital happiness. They think “If I can build my life with this person for 7 years happily, than that proves we’ll have a happy marriage.”
 
If the end goal is marriage, then I offer the following, based on experience and what I was taught in Catholic school.



Married life is joyful, but even for those who are not married, we still have relationships that can have ups and downs, but if you’re really friends, you find a way to work it out.

Hope this helps,
Ed
Your posts are always full of great wisdom. I will be reflecting on this post for quite some time 🙂
 
There is no “One size fits all” general dating advice. There is too many different opinions. What works for one person may not work for another. Everyone has had their own experiences and preferences. One of the worst things to do is over-think things though. So I guess that is my dating advice. Don’t over-analyze things. Don’t over-think things. Don’t try to take in too much advice. Keep it simple.
 
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