Dating someone with secular views on sex

[Bookcat]

Rather problematic to say the least.

Read over St. Paul’s 2nd Letter to the Corinthians 6: 14-16

While it is possible that a person may convert and come to know Christ and then the reality of the virtue of chastity - one cannot depend on that for they have free will and those are very very very serious matters.

 

[Shea96]

He deserves every opportunity to repent, learn, and realign his life, as we all do.

But that opportunity is provided with God. No person, especially one who is considering romantic involvement is obligated to provide that opportunity per se on their time. As friends, it is different. As a romantic pairing, there is no obligation.

I would rather have stayed single forever than settle down with a non-practicing Catholic who did not share my zeal for the faith, as dating and courtship is not the place feel obligated to provide people the chance to realign. There should be no external pressure.

As HD said, when I consider my two daughters, not even in kindergarten yet, it puts it in perspective for me at least what I should desire for all women in a man.

I guess my views are a little…skewed. I married a Protestant - (and according the OP, he is a practicing Catholic) totally off-limits for many zealous Catholics. But I was not a zealous, or even luke warm Catholic. We both had many secular views. BUT, and I guess this is why I say don’t run from people like this, we were both committed to learning and growing. We didn’t know all that we didn’t know. He went to Mass w me and we both learned. He entered RCIA and we both learned. We married, and we continued to learn. We had children and we learned even more. Our faith has been a continuous learning process. We had a desire to learn and to grow. Together. Now, we are Traditional Catholics. I’ve learned of obedience to not only the Church, but to my spouse. He has learned of his responsibility to grow his family in faith and lead us to Heaven. We are not even close to being the same people we were in the beginning. So no, none are obligated. But marriage is, in fact, supposed to be sanctifying. I would think that the process begins in courtship.

I just thought that the OP should determine why he has his views, if he is open to growing in faith with her, learning why his views are wrong, and becoming obedient to God.* If he is willing now*, imagine what their dating relationship will be like! As they court, and learn God’s word, HIs will for them, the Church’s teachings, as they empty themselves together of the secular world making room to be filled with obedience and with the love of Christ. Just imagine that!. Imagine doing that together, as you are getting to know each other. As I said earlier, if he is NOT willing, brushes it off, is arrogant, indignant, whatever, at that point, I would say he is not courting material. My whole point was that they have only begun a friendship, not even a courtship yet, and that he should be given the opportunity to show where his true heart is. Our views do not always define us, define our heart, or our love of God and our faith. Sometimes it just takes someone to say, hey, ya know that thing you think, well, it’s not what God wants us to believe, and here is why…And just like that, a heart can be changed to bend toward God.

If my very little girls ever mess up really bad, ever rebel agains the faith, I pray that they will not be reduced to dating and marrying some secular dude who hates religion and God and views them as objects to be used ***just bc ***in a moment, they are not considered worthy enough or holy enough to be courted by a good Catholic young man.

 

[wild_thing]

I’m very confused as to what this man’s views actually are. Did he mention pornography on his profile? Masturbation, birth control, etc? Because all I actually read so far was that he held secular views on them. Well, what sort of secular views and how deep are they entrenched? If he is open to hearing Catholic values and learning them, then why not talk with him about them? Why would she need to run away?

I feel sorry for faithful single Catholics out there, because looking for another super committed Catholic with all the right qualities has gotta be like winning the powerball.

 

[Rose71]

If you’ve got enough mutual respect and trust between the 2 of you to start going on dates, then just be yourself and be upfront about your beliefs. You don’t have to go bombarding him with books and pamphlets: just let him know that your faith is important to you and you are not willing to compromise.

If he’s as fundamentally good as you describe, he will either politely excuse himself from any further deepending of the relationship and you can both wish one another well and go your separate ways, or he will start to question his own beliefs and seek a deeper understanding.

I’d say that at this point in time, he is not ideal marriage material, so investing a lot of emotional energy into the relationship isn’t sensible. However, as long as you both know where you stand and you are both honest, you could both be set to grow in faith and understanding because of your friendship.

Just as an aside on the porn-thing. DH and I were made to attend a pre-marriage class before we could be married and the lady taking the class gave everyone statements to read out and then the group had to vote on whether they were acceptable or unacceptable within a marriage. She announced straight up that there were no ‘right or wrong answers’ and some of the statements lead to some interesting discussions, for example, the one that said, “It is acceptable for me to have nights out with my friends after I’m married” and “It is acceptable for me to have a best friend of the opposite sex after we’re married”. Eventually, we came to the statement, “it is acceptable if I watch pornography after we are married” and most people voted ‘no’. The course leader reminded us that there were ‘no right and wrong answers’!

This was a Catholic marriage course, run by a Catholic charity and took place in the social club belonging to the local Catholic church. The same day, we also learned that contraception was a matter of personal conscience. We were told that marriage was a sacrament (at least she got that big right) but then she added, “obviously, I don’t expect anyone here to be able to name all the other sacraments!” The whole tone of the event was ‘we’re not pushing religion down anyone’s throat’ to the point where it became ridiculous.

Many cradle Catholics stop going to Mass before they have any real grasp of what pornography is and I have yet to meet a teacher of under 12s who brings up adultery, birth control or pornogrpahy when explaining the concept of mortal sin! (and rightly so)

 

[dangerousdyls]

Thank you for the prayers! You’re right, it is based on things that he had in the questions section of his profile, so we haven’t gotten to the point of talking about this yet but it is on my radar for the near future. (When I spoke about trust, it’s more receptivity to what I’m saying; it’s worked better when I’ve talked about my beliefs with my secular friends to have a friendship first.) What is the best way to approach this conversation?

Sure! Well, I don’t know what exactly his profile says, but that’s how I’d start the conversation…“Hey, I noticed on your profile you agree with X…is that true?” I’d just ask the basic questions “What do you think about this?” and “Why?”, and I think that’ll tell you a lot. It doesn’t have to be a full blown argument, you’re just trying to get an idea for what he believes.

If it’s not the truth, but he’s interested in learning your point of view, you could start nudging some resources his way. Matt Fradd and Jason Evert have some great youtube videos online, that might be an easy way to start, or you could nudge a book towards him like Delivered or Theology of the Body for beginners.

 

[Sugabee43]

As a wife whose cradle Catholic husband sees no harm in pornography-- and also knowing the horrible damage that that opinion of his has done to our marriage— I would have to advise against any kind of serious relationship with the man. I see you mention his desire for “self-discipline.” That’s something my husband believes he has in abundance, and yet he can’t (or won’t) allow himself to discontinue the porn. No matter how much self-discipline someone appears to have, it’s very difficult to overcome the fondness for pornography or even the habit of looking lustfully at other appealing women in general. In many cases, the person simply doesn’t WANT to stop and keeps telling himself that it can’t be that bad since so many people do it. Many just don’t acknowledge the sinfulness of it.

Just my two cents, but if I’d known what you now know about the man before continuing to date my husband years ago, I would have run in the opposite direction, no matter how many good qualities he had (and he did have many). Forewarned is forearmed, as they say. There’s also a support group here at CAF for women in relationships with men who use porn. It’s called, “Women Suffering Because of Unchastity.” It might help you or any other women reading this, and it definitely helped me. Good luck in your decision, and take care.

I can second what bmaj is saying. I, too, have a cradle Catholic husband who is enmeshed in the porn/masturbation cycle. He was secretive about it, so I’m sure he knew it was wrong, but found ways to justify it in his mind. I was unaware of his problem until years after we married. It continues to this day, and has resulted in a very broken marriage. I cannot say where we are headed- he tells me that once our youngest (15) has graduated and the house is paid off, he’s leaving. We’ve tried a myriad of counselors, retreats, conferences, books, prayer sessions… all to no avail.

So my two cents is that you tread very, very carefully. Be direct and **ask **him exactly what you want to know and what he believes. If it’s not in line with Church teaching, GENTLY show him/tell him the teaching. If he rejects it, shake the dust from your sandals and be gone. It may be that God has only led you to each other to teach him the true tenets of our faith and that’s it.

Blessings to you.

 

[UbiCaritas]

While it’s rare, it is possible for someone with a secular view on sex/masturbation/porn/etc to have a genuine change of heart while dating someone.

A couple of friends of mine started dating two guys who were also friends at about the same time. At the time, both of the guys were living pretty secular lifestyles, complete with all that stuff.

The friend who was more serious about her faith ended up leading her boyfriend to the Faith; he converted, and is a model of Catholic manhood now: a great husband and father who prioritizes the family’s faith life over everything, and someone who models self-sacrificial love for the rest of us.

The other friend’s boyfriend converted as well, but it was more of a form thing. He never stopped the porn cycle; in fact–without going into too many details–their intimate life is virtually nonexistent because she, of course, can’t offer everything that the world of porn can. Their marriage is a very unhappy one, to say the least.

In the first person’s case, it hadn’t occurred to him that porn use wasn’t the norm. His family of origin was pretty messed up, and all his friends used it, so hey, why not? When his future wife talked to him about the Church’s teaching on the subject, though, it was like a light bulb went off: the truths of the Church’s teaching were exactly what he’d been looking for his whole life without realizing it, and with some hard work, he kicked the porn habit to the curb.

In the second, he never saw it as a “big deal,” and their premarital prep/RCIA was pretty lousy, so it wasn’t really discussed anyhow, and even if it had been, I suspect he’d have blown it off, just as he’s blown off his wife’s unhappiness with the porn habit for years now. Very sad.

In short, OP, I wouldn’t kick the guy totally to the curb yet, but I’d be very, very careful. The second guy is a more common type than the first, and as other posters have mentioned, you do not want to end up in a marriage where his porn habit comes first.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Thank you all for the responses.

I see enough good in him right now that I’m not quite willing to cut and run yet. Obviously, depending on his reaction to the discussions, I’ll make a decision based on that–we’ve just passed the point where we’ve been getting to know each other and trying to figure out if we want to meet again, and now we’re to the point where we’re planning a few dates out. Honestly, I thought he’d find me too nerdy or something and we wouldn’t get that far. But I am really eager now to have these conversations, I’m just hoping for advice for approaching them and arguing my points. From my experience with female friends of mine, these tend to go better once some kind of relationship and trust has been established.

He’s a cradle Catholic, but he’s just starting to explore his faith a little more deeply because he’s confused by mine: he’s surprised by my prayer life and my choice of (very strong practicing Catholic) friends. It sounds like his family is fairly lukewarm, and he hasn’t ever been in an environment where faith was valued and prioritized; I was fortunate enough to have a really awesome, supportive Catholic social group in college that gave me great formation, and I can’t imagine trying to navigate the secular world and hold to Catholic teaching without that.

One of the things I most admire about him is his desire for self-discipline and other virtues (like growth in generosity of the heart, etc.) and his desire to understand how and why things work, which he just hasn’t applied to his faith and which I hope dispose him to be open to learning more. I think he truly doesn’t realize how harmful these things are, or why the Church teaches against them.

If he’s not open to learning, I have no problem ending things–I did that back in November with a man with whom I didn’t even need to have the conversations. I know that as faithful Catholics we have an obligation not to compromise but we also have an obligation to share our faith and revitalize members of the Body who are struggling; the latter is what I’m asking for help on.

I’m late to this thread, but I just want to say - way to go girl! It does sound as if this young man may have some good qualities that could eventually open the door to his returning to the Faith. Perhaps you can be a good friend to him and a support in that process. The key to being able to be that person is not to let your own relationship hopes get you entangled and compromising your own strong faith. You sound like you have your head on straight and you’re able to keep things in balance. That shows real maturity. :yup: