Dating someone with secular views on sex

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I honestly think that he doesn’t know how off his views are

Of course he doesn’t which is why someone should tell him. But all the more reason to be alarmed. This man is far from ready to lead you and his children to heaven.

 

[Convert_in_99]

One cannot look at the cross on Easter and Christmas even once and think porn is a good and non sinful thing. Perhaps masturbation, perhaps artificial birth control can be believed out of poor education or ignorance. But porn, nope. It is impossible. Unless one is a victim of sexual abuse so often that porn becomes an expression of love and even then I would run. The op describes his views and then speaks of his character. even in ignorance defense of the evil of porn or neglect to think of what it really is is impossible for a man of character. I am worried not only by the young mans beliefs but by the op’s excuses and blindness. It isn’t my life but there is virtually no situation in which I would advise my daughter to continue to explore a relationship with this man.

I don’t think she should continue to date this man either, but I still believe he could be legitamately ignorant of the Church’s teachings on sin. Porn is very commonplace and easy to get hooked on these days. Not saying it’s right, cause it’s just another form of adultery, but it’s not made out to be so by today’s world. It is considered a lesser evil if anything. If you aren’t taught the contrary how would you know?

 

[Shea96]

Not to get completely off topic but it is 100 impossible for a cradle Catholic to not know porn is sinful. You might have chosen to ignore it but you know it

Not to be argumentative, but…um, nope, didn’t chose to ignore it bc porn was never an issue in my life, so I didn’t think about it one way or the other. But I knew about it and knew of people who watched it. I never thought of it as being sinful, just…completely un-entertaining and gross.

Also, keep in mind that growing up before the internet, porn wasn’t readily available, so not knowing it was a sin is completely reasonable if you aren’t exposed to it or have ever, ever had a discussion about it.

I think to say it’s 100% impossible is a very narrow view of where a lot of Catholics are and how they grow up, completely and utterly un-catechized. The only requirement of my being Catholic when I was growing up was that we try our best to get to Mass every Sunday. I didn’t start forming until well after college, when I met my Protestant husband, with very secular views about everything - just.like.me. We are now a Traditional Catholic family bringing up our children strong in the faith, attempting to give them all I never had.

 

[Memaw]

Thank you all for the responses.

I see enough good in him right now that I’m not quite willing to cut and run yet. Obviously, depending on his reaction to the discussions, I’ll make a decision based on that–we’ve just passed the point where we’ve been getting to know each other and trying to figure out if we want to meet again, and now we’re to the point where we’re planning a few dates out. Honestly, I thought he’d find me too nerdy or something and we wouldn’t get that far. But I am really eager now to have these conversations, I’m just hoping for advice for approaching them and arguing my points. From my experience with female friends of mine, these tend to go better once some kind of relationship and trust has been established.

He’s a cradle Catholic, but he’s just starting to explore his faith a little more deeply because he’s confused by mine: he’s surprised by my prayer life and my choice of (very strong practicing Catholic) friends. It sounds like his family is fairly lukewarm, and he hasn’t ever been in an environment where faith was valued and prioritized; I was fortunate enough to have a really awesome, supportive Catholic social group in college that gave me great formation, and I can’t imagine trying to navigate the secular world and hold to Catholic teaching without that.

One of the things I most admire about him is his desire for self-discipline and other virtues (like growth in generosity of the heart, etc.) and his desire to understand how and why things work, which he just hasn’t applied to his faith and which I hope dispose him to be open to learning more. I think he truly doesn’t realize how harmful these things are, or why the Church teaches against them.

If he’s not open to learning, I have no problem ending things–I did that back in November with a man with whom I didn’t even need to have the conversations. I know that as faithful Catholics we have an obligation not to compromise but we also have an obligation to share our faith and revitalize members of the Body who are struggling; the latter is what I’m asking for help on.

The things you mentioned are VERY serious situations and if he is addicted to two that you mentioned, then I’d say he has a very serious problem. Neither of which would be easy to overcome and ones you surly wouldn’t want to deal with in a serious relationship or even possible marriage. I know several Catholic wives that are trying to deal with husbands that do porn and have a very hard time. One has “quit” for a while, a few times but got right back into it. It doesn’t matter how “nice” he seems, these are very serious problems that he needs real help with. I would be very cautious getting into any relationship with someone that has even one of these problems let alone several. It’s even harder when there are children involved. It can be and an many times is a marriage breaker. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Shea96]

One can realize their secular views are in error and change!!!

I don’t know this man, but yikes! He is already been (practically) labeled an adulterating, masturbating sex addict!

Has no one here ever had views contrary to the fundamental teachings of the Church, but was taught, forgiven, redirected and then conformed to the teachings with a pure, humble, and obedient heart?? If we only considered dating one who is sinless and in perfect union with Christ and His Holy Church, we’d all be single! Does this man not deserve a chance to prove that he is really in the dark, led astray by a sinful and secular world, but that he can be enlightened in mind and heart, recognizing the gravity of the offenses against God, that he can “go and sin no more”??

 

[Shea96]

And also, the OP said he has secular views on…not that he was doing these things. I had secular views on porn, but had never been exposed to it and it was never something I engaged in. But when I knew about it with other people, I just shrugged it off…

So, again, he is being labeled as an offender when all that was conveyed was an attitude, and attitude quite possibly based solely on ignorance of Church teaching, an attitude that may have the potential to be reformed. THAT is what I think the OP is exploring, or what I would suggest someone exploring.

 

[dangerousdyls]

I don’t think you need to “run” like some people say, especially if he’s a cradle Catholic and he’s going to mass with you. If I’m reading you right though, you haven’t discussed with him about these issues and they are more based on what you saw on the internet. Is that right? I think it’s really important to bring it up, this is a huge issue today. If you wait too long, you could become more attached to him, and it could hurt more… I’m not sure I follow your friends’ views. You can’t establish true trust until you’ve talked about these issues. In the meantime, you’ll just be guessing.

There is a place for hope though. If he’s currently acting in ways that are immoral, but is willing to change, that’s a good sign. If you bring it up, I’d be very attentive to how he responds and defends what he believes. I hope for the best, I prayed for you!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I just don’t buy it. When I was 12 it wasn’t the internet but rather playboy and hustler. My family was not religious, my dad had a porn stash that I found. Playboys and penthouses and a couple of porn tapes. At 12 I knew this was shameful because I did it in secret. I didn’t want to “get caught”. Nowadays that stuff was pretty tame. Porn has come along way from the pin up girls of the past. Now it involves pain, sodomy, and degradation. I was into many deviations before I converted. And honestly even after. But never, even with a secular godless upbringing did I view it as health or good. Never did I not know it to be wrong. Masturbation? Now that can be argued. Many parents bring children up teaching them it is ok, or passively encouraging it. But porn, nope not unless you are a sicko. Here is the test. Would a man who views porn show it to his daughter? If yes,call the cops, if no then he knows It to be wrong. No homily needed.

 

[blueshells]

I just don’t buy it. When I was 12 it wasn’t the internet but rather playboy and hustler. My family was not religious, my dad had a porn stash that I found. Playboys and penthouses and a couple of porn tapes. At 12 I knew this was shameful because I did it in secret. I didn’t want to “get caught”. Nowadays that stuff was pretty tame. Porn has come along way from the pin up girls of the past. Now it involves pain, sodomy, and degradation. I was into many deviations before I converted. And honestly even after. But never, even with a secular godless upbringing did I view it as health or good. Never did I not know it to be wrong. Masturbation? Now that can be argued. Many parents bring children up teaching them it is ok, or passively encouraging it. But porn, nope not unless you are a sicko. Here is the test. Would a man who views porn show it to his daughter? If yes,call the cops, if no then he knows It to be wrong. No homily needed.

I don’t know of anyone that’s actively promoting porn, with the exception of the porn industry. There is, however, an extremely pervasive attitude of “boys will be boys” around porn, and many parents address it as such.

 

[Shea96]

I just don’t buy it. When I was 12 it wasn’t the internet but rather playboy and hustler. My family was not religious, my dad had a porn stash that I found. Playboys and penthouses and a couple of porn tapes. At 12 I knew this was shameful because I did it in secret. I didn’t want to “get caught”. Nowadays that stuff was pretty tame. Porn has come along way from the pin up girls of the past. Now it involves pain, sodomy, and degradation. I was into many deviations before I converted. And honestly even after. But never, even with a secular godless upbringing did I view it as health or good. Never did I not know it to be wrong. Masturbation? Now that can be argued. Many parents bring children up teaching them it is ok, or passively encouraging it. But porn, nope not unless you are a sicko. Here is the test. Would a man who views porn show it to his daughter? If yes,call the cops, if no then he knows It to be wrong. No homily needed.

No no, you misunderstand. I never thought of it as being “good” or “healthy”. I just didn’t think of it. Period. No porn at my parent’s house. I had never even seen a pornographic video until my very early adulthood. So, it was just something that wasn’t on my radar, and if people did it, I seriously just figured they were merely relieving themselves with visual stimulation. I didn’t think…is it a sin? Actually, I didn’t think of anything in terms of ‘is it a sin?’. I didn’t think of God at all. Just goes to show that God’s grace is abundant, His mercy is endless. I think that is something we can both agree on!

 

[blueshells]

I don’t think you need to “run” like some people say, especially if he’s a cradle Catholic and he’s going to mass with you. If I’m reading you right though, you haven’t discussed with him about these issues and they are more based on what you saw on the internet. Is that right? I think it’s really important to bring it up, this is a huge issue today. If you wait too long, you could become more attached to him, and it could hurt more… I’m not sure I follow your friends’ views. You can’t establish true trust until you’ve talked about these issues. In the meantime, you’ll just be guessing.

There is a place for hope though. If he’s currently acting in ways that are immoral, but is willing to change, that’s a good sign. If you bring it up, I’d be very attentive to how he responds and defends what he believes. I hope for the best, I prayed for you!

Thank you for the prayers! You’re right, it is based on things that he had in the questions section of his profile, so we haven’t gotten to the point of talking about this yet but it is on my radar for the near future. (When I spoke about trust, it’s more receptivity to what I’m saying; it’s worked better when I’ve talked about my beliefs with my secular friends to have a friendship first.) What is the best way to approach this conversation?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Hi all,

I’ve been dating a lovely man for a few months now, and we’re moving towards entering a relationship. Aside from all the interests and hobbies we have in common, he’s kind, gentle, generous, and (so far) hasn’t done anything to push my boundaries.

However, I have some reservations (and I’m not even sure if they should be, hence why I’m here!). We met from an online website, and so I know a bit about his views that we haven’t really discussed yet. He definitely has more secular opinions on contraception, pornography, and masturbation. What are some ways I can handle these conversations when they come up? We’ve been to Mass together several times, so there’s a base to start from, but the men I’ve previously been in relationships with have been more in line with the Church on these. I know I shouldn’t date someone with the intent to change them, but I also wouldn’t have had a deep conversion if I hadn’t dated someone who was willing to teach me.

Thanks!
~blue

I re read this and there is one other thing to think about. You mention someone dated you and changed you. This might be your idea of “paying it forward”. But that is not what dating should be. It is dicerning if you are going to give this man your body, your life, your children.
I think it isincredibly alarming that you know his views via something he has chosen to share online for public consumption.
Read this post to your dad and ask him if you should pursue a guy who supports masturbation and porn…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Hi all,

I’ve been dating a lovely man for a few months now, and we’re moving towards entering a relationship. Aside from all the interests and hobbies we have in common, he’s kind, gentle, generous, and (so far) hasn’t done anything to push my boundaries.

However, I have some reservations (and I’m not even sure if they should be, hence why I’m here!). We met from an online website, and so I know a bit about his views that we haven’t really discussed yet. He definitely has more secular opinions on contraception, pornography, and masturbation. What are some ways I can handle these conversations when they come up? We’ve been to Mass together several times, so there’s a base to start from, but the men I’ve previously been in relationships with have been more in line with the Church on these. I know I shouldn’t date someone with the intent to change them, but I also wouldn’t have had a deep conversion if I hadn’t dated someone who was willing to teach me.

Thanks!
~blue

Thank you for the prayers! You’re right, it is based on things that he had in the questions section of his profile, so we haven’t gotten to the point of talking about this yet but it is on my radar for the near future. (When I spoke about trust, it’s more receptivity to what I’m saying; it’s worked better when I’ve talked about my beliefs with my secular friends to have a friendship first.) What is the best way to approach this conversation?

How about honestly. “I noticed you are Catholic but support birth control, porn, and masturbation. Tell me, how do you think that might affect the way you view me and how we give eachother to eachother in the marital embrace to bring forth love and children? Should I be worried that what you know of intimacy you learned from the abuse of women?”
Do you expect me to preform to the standards you view and the acts seen".
That ought to cover it…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t know of anyone that’s actively promoting porn, with the exception of the porn industry. There is, however, an extremely pervasive attitude of “boys will be boys” around porn, and many parents address it as such.

Yes, there are a lot of proud strippers too. I wouldn’t advocate dating one…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

No no, you misunderstand. I never thought of it as being “good” or “healthy”. I just didn’t think of it. Period. No porn at my parent’s house. I had never even seen a pornographic video until my very early adulthood. So, it was just something that wasn’t on my radar, and if people did it, I seriously just figured they were merely relieving themselves with visual stimulation. I didn’t think…is it a sin? Actually, I didn’t think of anything in terms of ‘is it a sin?’. I didn’t think of God at all. Just goes to show that God’s grace is abundant, His mercy is endless. I think that is something we can both agree on!

But this guy does think of it. He publicly promoted it on his profile! Seriously!?
Here is a quick peak into the future…
" hey chill out, you knew about my feelings about porn when we dated. I posted them"

 

[fin]

I wholeheartedly agree. I think it would be hard to be with someone who does not share your values.

A good woman and future wife and mother should RUN from a man who has “secular” views on the subjects you mention.

 

[Memaw]

This is not true at all. Many cradle Catholics grow up in homes where they receive little, if any Religious education. Many religious education teachers aren’t fully knowledgeable of Church teaching and so promote false Church teachings. God isn’t talked about regularly at home, if at all. Many of these parents are confused themselves or are angry at God and therefore right from wrong is improperly or maybe even not ever talked about. In fact, many of these “cradle Catholics” are taught that things that are sins aren’t really sins. Some never go to Church, others maybe for Christmas and Easter and a wedding or funeral. They honestly haven’t been taught, or haven’t been to Church enough (if at all) to hear these things are sins. How are they supposed to avoid what they do not know to be sins, or avoid serious sins that are made light of and not considered mortal by the teachers or parents?

Just curious?

Just because one wasn’t raised in a good Catholic home doesn’t mean they couldn’t learn when they grow up. They didn’t grow up in a bubble. Just because you reach adulthood, doesn’t mean the brain doesn’t work. We are created with an inward knowledge of natural law. It’s written in our souls. I learned more about my Catholic faith after I grew up than I ever knew as a child. And my Mom was a very faithful Catholic and taught us all very well. Before we went to Confession she would remind us to examine our conscience. She would say, " Remember, you might be able to fool me and you might even be able to fool Father, but you’ll never be able to fool God, so be truthful." I have learned so much about the History of our Catholic faith. Our Popes. Apostolic Succession, I have read so many great books about the Saints. One never stops learning. There are sooo many great resources available to us, like EWTN, Catholic Answers and now we even have hundreds of Catholic Radio stations all around America. We can learn if we want. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Naskor]

Hoosier Daddy is 100% spot on.

It looks like from OP’s replies that they aren’t looking for advice though but looking to justify a bad decision though.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

One can realize their secular views are in error and change!!!

I don’t know this man, but yikes! He is already been (practically) labeled an adulterating, masturbating sex addict!

Has no one here ever had views contrary to the fundamental teachings of the Church, but was taught, forgiven, redirected and then conformed to the teachings with a pure, humble, and obedient heart?? If we only considered dating one who is sinless and in perfect union with Christ and His Holy Church, we’d all be single! Does this man not deserve a chance to prove that he is really in the dark, led astray by a sinful and secular world, but that he can be enlightened in mind and heart, recognizing the gravity of the offenses against God, that he can “go and sin no more”??

He deserves every opportunity to repent, learn, and realign his life, as we all do.

But that opportunity is provided with God. No person, especially one who is considering romantic involvement is obligated to provide that opportunity per se on their time. As friends, it is different. As a romantic pairing, there is no obligation.

I would rather have stayed single forever than settle down with a non-practicing Catholic who did not share my zeal for the faith, as dating and courtship is not the place feel obligated to provide people the chance to realign. There should be no external pressure.

As HD said, when I consider my two daughters, not even in kindergarten yet, it puts it in perspective for me at least what I should desire for all women in a man.

 

[bmaj]

…One of the things I most admire about him is his desire for self-discipline and other virtues (like growth in generosity of the heart, etc.) and his desire to understand how and why things work, which he just hasn’t applied to his faith and which I hope dispose him to be open to learning more. I think he truly doesn’t realize how harmful these things are, or why the Church teaches against them. …

As a wife whose cradle Catholic husband sees no harm in pornography-- and also knowing the horrible damage that that opinion of his has done to our marriage— I would have to advise against any kind of serious relationship with the man. I see you mention his desire for “self-discipline.” That’s something my husband believes he has in abundance, and yet he can’t (or won’t) allow himself to discontinue the porn. No matter how much self-discipline someone appears to have, it’s very difficult to overcome the fondness for pornography or even the habit of looking lustfully at other appealing women in general. In many cases, the person simply doesn’t WANT to stop and keeps telling himself that it can’t be that bad since so many people do it. Many just don’t acknowledge the sinfulness of it.

Just my two cents, but if I’d known what you now know about the man before continuing to date my husband years ago, I would have run in the opposite direction, no matter how many good qualities he had (and he did have many). Forewarned is forearmed, as they say. There’s also a support group here at CAF for women in relationships with men who use porn. It’s called, “Women Suffering Because of Unchastity.” It might help you or any other women reading this, and it definitely helped me. Good luck in your decision, and take care.