Dating someone you have known for years - exercise caution?

[Edmundus1581]

This is a question which interests me because I made a terrible mistake with this myself and would be interested in others’ experiences and opinions.

I would like to suggest that if you have known someone for a long time and nothing romantic developed, and you were both available, then you should be very cautious about dating in the hope that the friendship could turn into true love, because whatever stood between you over the years will remain. Before dating, ask very seriously “Why hasn’t anything developed before now?”.

My own experience is from long ago, and I will be circumspect out of respect for my ex-wife. We had known each other for three years at university and got on very well. We had similar interests in music and religion, and could talk very easily with each other. However nothing romantic happened in the three years. Then we were both approaching our mid twenties and starting to fear we might not find someone (hehe… yeh… another stupid idea) and somehow threw ourselves at each other and fell “in love” and married quite quickly. The “in love” faded however, and we struggled to develop a lasting romance in the marriage. She divorced me after ten years, but I felt a certain sense of relief -(tough on our three kids, though). In hindsight, I can see that the three years of non-romance were a predictor for the marriage itself.

Thoughts?

 

[awke]

Interesting perspective. I think, though, that there are people who have gone a long time without dating a friend for other reasons. Some that jump to mind are shyness, fear that they’d lose a good friend if they pursued the other one, etc.

Not saying these are good reasons, but I think there can be reasons that prevent an otherwise good match to get together sooner.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Interesting perspective. I think, though, that there are people who have gone a long time without dating a friend for other reasons. Some that jump to mind are shyness, fear that they’d lose a good friend if they pursued the other one, etc.

Not saying these are good reasons, but I think there can be reasons that prevent an otherwise good match to get together sooner.

Fear of losing a good friend sounds like a good reason! Yes, for something to spark it will take one to start “pursuing” and they might fear losing a friend, or looking ridiculous. Both parties might be respecting a perceived agreement that this is a “friendship” only.

 

[awke]

Fear of losing a good friend sounds like a good reason! Yes, for something to spark it will take one to start “pursuing” and they might fear losing a friend, or looking ridiculous. Both parties might be respecting a perceived agreement that this is a “friendship” only.

I actually don’t think it’s a good reason. A best friend of the opposite gender will never be the same friend once they get married. Sure, they could still remain a good friend and you can still see them, but their best friend will be their spouse. Their calling in life would be their friendship and love of their spouse, not to you.

I’ve just known people who haven’t made a move because of this very reason: they are worried about losing a friend. But then they wind up heartbroken and distraught when the other person gets into a relationship with someone else, and they end up losing them as a friend anyways.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Another good reason can be that a person is simply “busy” with their own life, such as building a career, or pursing activities which require dedication. If they were doing this for several years then they may have avoided all relationships.

However, if they had several “casual” relationships while pursing their activities, then it might seem like the long time friend has been kept as a fall-back option. By my argument, even if they marry the long time friend will still be a “fall back” option, while the other puts his/her activities first in their life.

Of course, the “other activites” may be relationships themselves. There are people who want to have multiple sexual relationships just for fun, before being stuck with only one person. I’ve seen that before and the marriages have been short.

 

[awke]

Another good reason can be that a person is simply “busy” with their own life, such as building a career, or pursing activities which require dedication. If they were doing this for several years then they may have avoided all relationships.

However, if they had several “casual” relationships while pursing their activities, then it might seem like the long time friend has been kept as a fall-back option. By my argument, even if they marry the long time friend will still be a “fall back” option, while the other puts his/her activities first in their life.

Of course, the “other activites” may be relationships themselves. There are people who want to have multiple sexual relationships just for fun, before being stuck with only one person. I’ve seen that before and the marriages have been short.

Yep, I understand what you’re saying. And I would agree that a fall-back option or “can’t find anyone better” are never good reasons to marry someone.

 

[ClearWater]

This is a question which interests me because I made a terrible mistake with this myself and would be interested in others’ experiences and opinions.

I would like to suggest that if you have known someone for a long time and nothing romantic developed, and you were both available, then you should be very cautious about dating in the hope that the friendship could turn into true love, because whatever stood between you over the years will remain. Before dating, ask very seriously “Why hasn’t anything developed before now?”.

My own experience is from long ago, and I will be circumspect out of respect for my ex-wife. We had known each other for three years at university and got on very well. We had similar interests in music and religion, and could talk very easily with each other. However nothing romantic happened in the three years. Then we were both approaching our mid twenties and starting to fear we might not find someone (hehe… yeh… another stupid idea) and somehow threw ourselves at each other and fell “in love” and married quite quickly. The “in love” faded however, and we struggled to develop a lasting romance in the marriage. She divorced me after ten years, but I felt a certain sense of relief -(tough on our three kids, though). In hindsight, I can see that the three years of non-romance were a predictor for the marriage itself.

Thoughts?

Yes. I had that in my first marriage, that we knew each other for a long time, like 7 years or something, and in some ways, we had a good friendship. However, friendship is different than marriage.

For a successful marriage, as one of my friends would say, normally speaking, you need a LOT of chemistry. So yes, there is that…if there was chemistry, why it was never acted upon?

I can see your point. That was also my experience as well.

 

[brinkman2310]

How long were you dating before you got married? I think the bigger problem isn’t that you knew your ex-wife for years before you got romantically involved, but that you acted out of fear that you wouldn’t find a spouse.

FWIW, I knew my wife for seven years before we started dating.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thankyou for the responses and for taking my question seriously!

Yep, I understand what you’re saying. And I would agree that a fall-back option or “can’t find anyone better” are never good reasons to marry someone.

Yes, asking why we are dating after all these years may reveal, on one side or the other, “can’t find anyone better”.

It may well be the case that one of the friends has wanted something more all along, and the other was aware of it, but was just not interested. The one who has been waiting for the attention may jump at the unexpected opportunity, but would be well advised to ask “why now?”. (This was the case in my marriage, btw).

Yes. I had that in my first marriage, that we knew each other for a long time, like 7 years or something, and in some ways, we had a good friendship. However, friendship is different than marriage.

For a successful marriage, as one of my friends would say, normally speaking, you need a LOT of chemistry. So yes, there is that…if there was chemistry, why it was never acted upon?

I can see your point. That was also my experience as well.

I like that observation - a good marriage (normally speaking) takes a LOT of chemistry, and if there was chemistry then why was it never acted on? There’s usually some urgency to chemistry.

That chemistry is unlikely to be sparked by marriage itself - on the contrary, it’s likely to put a damper on it.

How long were you dating before you got married? I think the bigger problem isn’t that you knew your ex-wife for years before you got romantically involved, but that you acted out of fear that you wouldn’t find a spouse.

FWIW, I knew my wife for seven years before we started dating.

As I said, we got married very quickly once we started dating - just a month of courtship before engagement. I am definitely not saying that knowing someone for years is a problem in itself, but rather that it may be a sign of underlying problems. In general, the patterns of marriage will follow the patterns from before the marriage.

One other cause for not dating, which I have seen, is that a person enjoys the single life too much - even if they are celibate. And then they decide to marry and pick on a long time friend, who may have a similar disposition. When I’ve seen this happen the person, or persons, just continued the single life but within marriage. It may, or may not, work so long as people know what to expect.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I am actually in this situation again! I have known the person as a friend for five years and, due to circumstances, see each other frequently and get on very well.

With regard to this relationship I can see that the primary obstacle from my point of view has been that I enjoy the celibate single life too much. For the last five years I have enjoyed being single more than I enjoyed this woman’s company - which is a big warning sign.

I can think of several other reasons for our non-romance which all deserve close attention. Fortunately, lack of “chemistry” isn’t one of them - from my point of view, anyway. I’d better make sure that it’s the same for her.

Perhaps I just have a “lazy” disposition when it comes to romance. It’s not important enough for me to pursue it with any urgency. (see above para. about the single life).

Thanks again for your most helpful responses.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I can think of several other reasons for our non-romance which all deserve close attention. Fortunately, lack of “chemistry” isn’t one of them - from my point of view, anyway. I’d better make sure that it’s the same for her.

I normally touch her a couple of times a year, with a hug for Christmas and birthday, etc. This is always initiated by me, and meets a polite response, with some resistance. This year on her birthday I squeezed her more strongly than I intended, and she just melted and started hugging me back. I broke it off.

 

[EasterJoy]

Lack of romantic feelings makes a marriage invalid? Since when? Surely if your marriage was declared null, there was more to your break-up than that? I have known a couple who had this as a reason for their break-up, and their petition was denied.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Lack of romantic feelings makes a marriage invalid? Since when? Surely if your marriage was declared null, there was more to your break-up than that? I have known a couple who had this as a reason for their break-up, and their petition was denied.

That’s a very good point, and an interesting case you mention.

Strong romantic feelings are not required for a valid marriage - but some basic regard for each other is, and also some awareness of what you are both taking on. In my case we actually married “for love”, but it didn’t last and the lack of love over the first three years of our relationship should have been a clue that there was something askew with the feelings which propelled us into marriage. Even while the love was “hot” we fought over basics, such as getting to Mass.

My question relates not to the validity of the marriage, but to whether it is sensible - or whether even dating a particular person is sensible. I never suggested that knowing someone for a long time before dating is necessarily a problem, but rather that it may be a symptom of other problems. This is all predicated by the assumption that both of you were available over the years of friendship. Of course, if one or other of you were married then it’s a completely different case.

With this relationship I am considering my feelings are strong, and always have been, however there are some serious doubts about our compatibility which I have been aware of all the time, and I find it helpful to remind myself that how we have both been over the last five years is a predictor of how things will turn out in the long run. I want to think about this before making any moves - and possibly losing a good friendship and working relationship.

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s a very good point, and an interesting case you mention.

Strong romantic feelings are not required for a valid marriage - but some basic regard for each other is, and also some awareness of what you are both taking on. In my case we actually married “for love”, but it didn’t last and the lack of love over the first three years of our relationship should have been a clue that there was something askew with the feelings which propelled us into marriage. Even while the love was “hot” we fought over basics, such as getting to Mass.

My question relates not to the validity of the marriage, but to whether it is sensible - or whether even dating a particular person is sensible. I never suggested that knowing someone for a long time before dating is necessarily a problem, but rather that it may be a symptom of other problems. This is all predicated by the assumption that both of you were available over the years of friendship. Of course, if one or other of you were married then it’s a completely different case.

With this relationship I am considering my feelings are strong, and always have been, however there are some serious doubts about our compatibility which have bothered me in the past and I find it helpful to ask myself “Has anything really changed in the last 6 months?”.

This gets to the bottom of it–not that it is dangerous to marry someone with whom your affection is long-standing but your romantic feelings are recent, but that it is very dangerous to feel like “I have to get married now, and this might be my last chance.”

I think it was the author of the book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel” who quoted Tolstoy in what he calls the Anna Karenina Principle: “All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

Now, of course not all happy families are exactly alike, but what he means is that there is something of a laundry list of features that are necessary for a durable marriage relationship, and when any of them is missing, the presence of the others will only make up for it for so long. The author meant to use this to describe why so few plants and animals can be domesticated.

In your case, consider that it is very unwise to try to sweep even one very important defect in a relationship under the rug because you’re so anxious to get all the other great stuff that the relationship promises. That does not work.

Should you date someone that you’ve known for a long time, but never considered dating? The answer is: It depends. It depends on why you never dated before and why that changed. There are answers to that question that are not cause for concern. Sometimes, people just don’t see what is right in front of them until all of a sudden they see it. Sometimes, the conditions were not right for both of them at the same time–one was always too busy, too wound up in looking for something that they learned later was not all that important, and so on…

You know enough to ask that question, though. That is a good thing. Just don’t assume that the question has a blanket answer. It doesn’t. You have to answer it for yourself.

 

[Edmundus1581]

This gets to the bottom of it–not that it is dangerous to marry someone with whom your affection is long-standing but your romantic feelings are recent, but that it is very dangerous to feel like “I have to get married now, and this might be my last chance.”

I think it was the author of the book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel” who quoted Tolstoy in what he calls the Anna Karenina Principle: “All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

Now, of course not all happy families are exactly alike, but what he means is that there is something of a laundry list of features that are necessary for a durable marriage relationship, and when any of them is missing, the presence of the others will only make up for it for so long. The author meant to use this to describe why so few plants and animals can be domesticated.

In your case, consider that it is very unwise to try to sweep even one very important defect in a relationship under the rug because you’re so anxious to get all the other great stuff that the relationship promises. That does not work.

Should you date someone that you’ve known for a long time, but never considered dating? The answer is: It depends. It depends on why you never dated before and why that changed. There are answers to that question that are not cause for concern. Sometimes, people just don’t see what is right in front of them until all of a sudden they see it. Sometimes, the conditions were not right for both of them at the same time–one was always too busy, too wound up in looking for something that they learned later was not all that important, and so on…

You know enough to ask that question, though. That is a good thing. Just don’t assume that the question has a blanket answer. It doesn’t. You have to answer it for yourself.

Thankyou so much EasterJoy!

I like that as an “executive summary”, and want to highlight…

In your case, consider that it is very unwise to try to sweep even one very important defect in a relationship under the rug because you’re so anxious to get all the other great stuff that the relationship promises. That does not work.

That’s **exactly **how I am feeling at the moment… that I am brushing aside more than one important defect in the relationship because I am hoping for the great stuff which could come from it.

Should you date someone that you’ve known for a long time, but never considered dating? The answer is: It depends. It depends on why you never dated before and why that changed. There are answers to that question that are not cause for concern. Sometimes, people just don’t see what is right in front of them until all of a sudden they see it. Sometimes, the conditions were not right for both of them at the same time–one was always too busy, too wound up in looking for something that they learned later was not all that important, and so on…

:yup:

Thanks again!

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s **exactly **how I am feeling at the moment… that I am brushing aside more than one important defect in the relationship because I am hoping for the great stuff which could come from it.

If it is important to your gut, it is important to you. Don’t ignore those feelings. The brain research will tell you that a lot of brain power and experience goes into those feelings.

Some of us have those feelings when we should not–hyperactive wariness, I guess I would call it. I think it is a good idea to go to a counsellor and sort that out in other areas, such as learning to feel good about choosing a new apartment, a job, or a vacation destination. Choose your spouse after you have more self-confidence in discerning when you are being hyper-wary and when your gut is telling you something is not right. Otherwise, listen to your gut. When it says run, do not walk. Do not pick up a trinket or try to get one more little thing in. Run.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Listen to your gut is the best advice here.

A situation like the OP’s needs some caution to approach: it may be that which was good for a long term platonic friendship may not be so good for marriage because each party must change how they think about the other. That’s a real big change in mindset in going from a platonic friendship to a marriage in which living and sleeping together, attraction and sex are expected. In other words, they must change their default states from friend and friend to husband and wife. Being friends can certainly remain part of that process, but of necessity, it can only be part as the husband and wife part must become the primary focus of their relationship. Not all couples can make this transition successfully. Especially if either one of them thinks they “settled” with the default platonic friend they’ve been hanging out with for years.

In general, I find that if I have the least bit of attraction for a woman, then it is best not to be friends with her because my attraction will very likely never be requited and that condition feels like the typical friendzone. If no attraction and that is understood by both parties, then the friendship is fine, I have no issues as long as she understands that I’m not just another one of her girlfriends. Heck, I once got a couple of dates out of one of these platonic friends fixing me up with her friends she thought might be my type.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Listen to your gut is the best advice here.

A situation like the OP’s needs some caution to approach: it may be that which was good for a long term platonic friendship may not be so good for marriage because each party must change how they think about the other. That’s a real big change in mindset in going from a platonic friendship to a marriage in which living and sleeping together, attraction and sex are expected. In other words, they must change their default states from friend and friend to husband and wife. Being friends can certainly remain part of that process, but of necessity, it can only be part as the husband and wife part must become the primary focus of their relationship. Not all couples can make this transition successfully. Especially if either one of them thinks they “settled” with the default platonic friend they’ve been hanging out with for years.

In general, I find that if I have the least bit of attraction for a woman, then it is best not to be friends with her because my attraction will very likely never be requited and that condition feels like the typical friendzone. If no attraction and that is understood by both parties, then the friendship is fine, I have no issues as long as she understands that I’m not just another one of her girlfriends. Heck, I once got a couple of dates out of one of these platonic friends fixing me up with her friends she thought might be my type.

I like your point about both parties must change from friendship, to husband and wife. My first marriage definitely foundered on this point. We had just been good friends, who talked about music and religion. Somehow after three years, in a rush, we were “in love”, but it always felt like something tacked on to our friendship, rather than anything deep. My ex-wife described it as “an effort of will”. Sure, loving sometimes takes an “effort of will”, but it should flow easily most of the time. Our first kiss was an absolute “ho hum” event. We spiced it up with pre-marital “feelies” (but not intercourse) which were a good substitute for love.

We were a bit like a monk and nun who had been told to get married, so we went about the way we imagined married people did things.

I expect that if my current relationship turned romantic it would be a welcome change for both of us - like something inevitable finally happening. It has been there as a possibility all along.

Heck, I once got a couple of dates out of one of these platonic friends fixing me up with her friends she thought might be my type.

WTG! :thumbsup:

 

[Edmundus1581]

Mulling this over, I am coming to understand the dynamic of our relationship.

At first, we were attracted to each other but were so different that a serious relationship was out of the question, but over the years we keep finding more in common. Not by searching for it, but just as our individual lives have progressed we see that we like more and more of the same things, and share more and more of the same values (such as optimism, family first, thrift, honest effort). We both respect what the other has done with their life over the time.

Which reminds me a bit of “what has changed?”. In recent months we have, via facebook, seen more and more of each others interests popping up in our pictures and posts. We visit the same places, do the same things. When we do different things, the other mentions “that looked interesting”. Not infrequently one of us will put up a post which only the other will “get”.

However, the two biggies are religion and sexual mores…

 

[Edmundus1581]

Our friendship has been through a trial recently, but come out very well, and with some openness about our feelings (romantic and non).

I kept thinking about the comments here, and especially: “Why has nothing happened until now, and what has changed?”

Our regular meetings are largely due to circumstances, rather than a shared interest, such as work or a leisure group. There has always been some chemistry between us, and interest in each others lives. We have had a few pleasant outings together. However, there has also been ample opportunity over several years for it to progress naturally, but it hasn’t. We live close by each other and could easily drop in, or invite each other to a movie. I am sure that if she had been a Catholic, or we had similar main interests (not just diversions), this would have happened quite naturally.

So, now I’ve seen it: It hasn’t happened before because, despite the chemistry, there is no real “meeting of minds”. This has changed somewhat in the last year, but not significantly enough to act on.