Dating

[f00dl3a]

How should one properly approach dating - from a moral Catholic point of view?

To give a bit of background on how my life got to the state it is now, I’m almost 24.5 years old now and thanks to social withdrawal and shyness in high school, and going to a technical “university” (DeVry) for college - compounded by working in a career field with no women my age (IT) - I somehow managed to miss the whole boat on women.

A positive thing about it - I’m still a virgin - in fact I’ve never even been on a date! (Have viewed R rated movies and occasional adult websites, so I’m by no means perfect. Actually, according to the Bible, since I’ve looked upon women with lust - I’m not a virgin…)

Through the past year I have stumbled across a group of young adults in the area, but due to the following, it so far has not been much help.

From my interpretations, one should not just “ask out” any woman he sees as attractive, as this is acting upon lust. In fact, from what I understand, physical attraction is just a polite way to describe lust for another’s body.

From my understanding, ideally one should be friends with someone and be emotionally - not physically - attracted.

This sounds good in theory, but in practice I am in a whole different dilemma.

It seems women I am physically attracted to, I shy away from because I am scared to talk to them based on (what I see as lust) unwholesome physical attraction. In other cases, women whom completely turn me off physically, I become can become good friends with over time - but would never consider dating. (The feeling is mutual on both sides - as most women I meet and become friends with are already taken, 10 to 20 years older, or go for older guys.)

I hate to say this but for me looks matter - to an extent as I would not want to date someone obese. I personally have lost 110-120 lbs. over the past 4 years, and the last thing I need to do is date someone who wants me to stop going to the gym and start eating bad foods all the time. Personally I want someone who would exercise with me. Someone that shares many of the interests I do. That’s not that wrong, is it? I would think it would make an unhappy mirrage if we hated each other’s lifestyles.

So after all this time of my relationship life going no where, I have come to a huge question.

Should I aim to keep doing what is not working - not wanting to consider asking someone out until being friends for a few months to rule out lust… or should I just get out there, take a chance and ask someone out, even if I’m doing that based on lust without knowing the person beyond the physical attraction and maybe several minutes of “small talk”? I would feel terribly guilty doing this - even get sick at the thought, but I’m not getting anywhere doing what I’m doing now.

Bottom line, I just don’t want to be 50 and sitting around withering away lonely.

BTW - I know for a fact praying for a girlfriend does not help - I’ve been doing that almost 10 years to no avail (since I was 15.)

 

[Eucharisted]

The truth hurts, my friend.

Prayer is necessary to obtain your daily needs and that includes preparation for your vocation, where it’s the priesthood, marriage, or consecrated life. God isn’t going to give you a girlfriend if you don’t rely on Him; He resists the proud because they resist Him.

Physical attraction is good, but you must go for true love: that is, to will the good of another and work toward what you will. Love is an active will, a willing good, so to speak. This is why friendship proceeds dating and dating proceeds marriage and marriage proceeds family. Look for a common interest in God and in marriage in the woman, look for similar hobbies and enjoyments. The spirit is more beautiful than the body.

Do not just pray for a girlfriend but for the whole package: the graces and virtues you need to be chaste and to be a good spouse, to be successful in your vocation, to rely on God, and to trust in Him, and other necessities. Dating begins between you and the Lord, for you are His spouse a la baptism, and only He can lead you to the right woman. So start in your heart before you start looking for other hearts. Remember, what you have is what you’ll get. The Lord will give you a compatible wife if He wants you to marry, so make sure you are compatible with God or else you might get a woman who will only ruin your life.

 

[ack]

Hello “f00dl3a”,

Before you begin dating, you should feel comfortable talking to all sorts of women, solely for the purpose of acquaintance and friendship. Stop worrying about the “unwholesome physical attraction” – get to know the women as friends, not as potential romantic partners. If you are accustomed to getting to know women without any “ulterior” motives, then the physical attraction will become irrelevant because you are not going to date these women anyway.

In other words, forget about dating for now, and just worry about socialization with women in general.

Once you feel comfortable befriending all kinds of women, attractive or not, then I think you will be more able to assess your situation, and dating will not be the puzzle that it is right now.

 

[tinalewis]

Hi - here’s a contribution from a middle-aged Catholic woman who has dozens of male Catholic cousins. Just my take on it, for whatever it’s worth.

I can assume you’re a parishioner at a church somewhere? If so, I’d like to offer three suggestions.

(1) Most larger parishes have youth or young adult groups and the top age is usually 30. You might like to join. The youth group at my parish goes on fields trips, plays softball, and does charity work together. It’s males and females together, but every event is supervised by some of us geezers. It would be a way for you to get comfortable in a co-ed setting.

(2) Also at many parishes there are “men’s groups”. Some of these are prayer groups, but I’m betting most aren’t. For example, at my parish the men’s group organizes pancake and taco events to raise money for the church. It’s a way to have interaction with other men - mostly older than yourself - but who can show you ways to be around other people. Also, remember that older men have daughters your age.

(3) Parish groups, councils, committees, etc. One of the reasons many people avoid belonging to a church is that the get recruited for every committee. Everyone needs help! Volunteer to do something, even if it’s helping some of the eldery ladies move furniture to the parish hall. You’ll be interacting with women. OK some of us are old enough to be your mother, but we’re women anyhow. You’ll get clues as to how women think, act, and what they like and don’t like in a man. Also, remember that older women have daughters your age.

I’ll tell you a secret: By far the most of the shy guys I knew in high school are now terrific husbands and fathers. Seems like the most popular guys back then now have a rough time in middle age. Something to keep in mind!

 

[amdannemiller]

In a way, I feel your pain. I’m 18 1/2 and have never went on a date either. I have been asked out a few times, but I like to think before I say yes whether that person would be someone I would actually consider marrying. And if the answer is no, then I would simply turn down their request, in a polite way of course. But for you I would suggest that you ask a woman that you would actually consider marrying. Why start dating someone that you would not actually marry because of her looks, the way she acts, her beliefs, or whatever?..unless of course you believe that you could indeed change the way she acts or what she believes. As a man, of course you would need to be attracted to your wife, but do remember looks are NOT most important, it is what is in the inside that counts! Also someone who is not all that attractive can become attractive once you get to know them. I personally can think of some guys that are not “attractive”, but the way act just draws me to them. In other words, their personality is attractive! Well, I wish you the best of luck with finding your very special woman!

Oh, have you ever considered becoming a priest or taking on some sort of religious vocation? Could God possibly be calling you to that? Do you have any attraction to that way of life?

 

[danfinocchio]

Heres some resources:

pureloveclub.com - Jason and Chrystalina Evert have a lot of great advice on dating

christopherwest.com - tons of excellent material on John Paul’s Theology of the Body

avemariasingles.com (its a dating site but has lots of great dating/marraige advice)

All of these will make dating both easier and harder. Easier because they help guide who to look for, and how to treat eachother in a relationship/marriage. Harder because most ppl in their 20s don’t follow this stuff, so you may want to try a catholic dating site

 

[RobNY]

From my interpretations, one should not just “ask out” any woman he sees as attractive, as this is acting upon lust. In fact, from what I understand, physical attraction is just a polite way to describe lust for another’s body.

This is completely wrongheaded. Finding a woman to be attractive is not lust, nor vice versa. In the beginning the Lord created woman-- and He created her beautiful. Beauty always has the effect of creating a desire in the beholder. And that’s good because beauty is good. Yes, even physical beauty is good. That’s why we’re Catholics and not Manichean dualists. God created the world and the body and He called it good.

Remember that goods have a hierarchy. One can choose anything for multiple goods, even if one ranks some above the others. Let’s be honest-- when you a buy a car the cup-holders are important, but they’re hardly decisive. But just because cup-holders aren’t the highest or best reasons to buy a car, surely they are a contributing reason. And there’s nothing wrong with that. The ultimate reasons that you buy that car might be because it has a powerful engine and has enough seats to fit you and your friends, say, but that doesn’t mean that having four cup-holders wasn’t also a subordinate good reason why you bought it.

Why would we exclude physical beauty as a good reason to love someone? Granted it isn’t a sufficient or ultimate reason, but that’s immaterial. The problem isn’t having physical beauty as a reason for your choice, but perhaps just ‘mis-ranking’ it-- putting it first. St. Augustine is very helpful in understanding this. Remember that the first commandment is to ‘love the Lord your God with your whole heart…’-- the whole point is to put God first. St. Augustine analyzes sin as a disordered love of goods. After all, on his theory nothing exists precisely as an ‘evil’ thing, but rather as a good thing, and so sin can’t be ‘choosing evil things’ but rather ‘choosing good things in the wrong order.’ And so sin is precisely that: loving good, but finite things, before God. The problem isn’t loving physical beauty, but loving it in the wrong place, before other goods which are better than it.

From my understanding, ideally one should be friends with someone and be emotionally - not physically - attracted.

Not at all true. How are you going to keep yourself from being attracted to an attractive woman? And let me tell you-- the deeper you know someone, the more attractive you’ll find them.

You are right that it is ideal to develop a friendship with a woman before dating her (which puts the personal and emotional before the physical, if this is a particular concern of yours), but life rarely works out so neatly.

This sounds good in theory, but in practice I am in a whole different dilemma.

The theory sounds misguided. God is good. He created everything good. The body is good. Repeat that.

It seems women I am physically attracted to, I shy away from because I am scared to talk to them based on (what I see as lust) unwholesome physical attraction.

Ok. Let’s get down to it. What in the world do you mean by lust? Be precise. We need to distinguish lust from attraction. It does no good to talk about ‘what you see’ as lust. What matters is what God sees as lust. Let me give you some definite roadsigns for what is real lust, you know, the mortal sin sort: the stimulation and manipulation of mental images of the unclothed body for instance. What isn’t lust? Well, simply finding a woman attractive.

I hate to say this but for me looks matter - to an extent as I would not want to date someone obese. I personally have lost 110-120 lbs. over the past 4 years, and the last thing I need to do is date someone who wants me to stop going to the gym and start eating bad foods all the time. Personally I want someone who would exercise with me. Someone that shares many of the interests I do. That’s not that wrong, is it? I would think it would make an unhappy mirrage if we hated each other’s lifestyles.

There’s nothing wrong with preferring women whom you find attractive. There’s no need to rationalize it. Do you think your future wife wants a husband who finds her unattractive? No way. That would be awful.

Should I aim to keep doing what is not working - not wanting to consider asking someone out until being friends for a few months to rule out lust…

Lust isn’t a process. It is an act. And it is made in specific choices. You can analyze every, single act you do, or choice you made and ask: was this a lustful act? Was this? If the answer is no, then you’re ok.

or should I just get out there, take a chance and ask someone out, even if I’m doing that based on lust without knowing the person beyond the physical attraction and maybe several minutes of “small talk”? I would feel terribly guilty doing this - even get sick at the thought, but I’m not getting anywhere doing what I’m doing now.

Yes, I think you should.

I have a small challenge for you. Just be spontaneous. Just-- gasp-- do what you feel like doing. Have fun.

Don’t get me wrong, buddy-- I’m a total intellect on stilts myself. I’m totally with you, in that I get exactly where you’re coming from. Emotion is not my strong suit. But it’s just what you’ll have to do.

 

[RobNY]

BTW - I know for a fact praying for a girlfriend does not help - I’ve been doing that almost 10 years to no avail (since I was 15.)

Since you haven’t finished living your life, this is a bogus statement. How do you know that God doesn’t plan to answer your prayer in the future?

Besides, I recommend developing a deep relationship with God. The first and lowest sort of prayer is ‘petitionary prayer’-- or the prayer where we ask for stuff. The problem is that most of us get stuck on this level and end up treating God like some sort of invisible cosmic Santa Claus. Remember that there is also meditative and contemplative prayer. Take a good chunk of time every day (do you already do this? try half an hour if you don’t) to sit in meditative prayer and just be with God.

What are the fruits of this? First, God will start infusing wonderful grace into you, and He will slowly start purifying you. This will take care of your worries about ‘lust.’ And not only will He make it easier for you to avoid real sins of lust, but He’ll give you such incredible and deep trust in Him and His mercy that you won’t need to constantly worry about it. Second, he’ll purify your desires. We all come to God thinking that we know what’s best for us. That’s sadly mistaken. Prayer is the start of a long journey of purifying one’s desires so that we can remake our lives in His image. Maybe we think we need a car, or a girlfriend (I’ve been there too buddy-- and I totally sympathize), or something in our life now. Well, God will help to reshape our desires to desire only what He wants. Lastly, and most importantly, God will start filling the huge need we have for Him and Him alone. To some degree every human being will be restless and unfulfilled unless they have a deep relationship with the Lord. Perhaps the Lord is using your loneliness to call you to a deeper relationship with Him.

Without this your life will be empty, even if you do find a dream woman.