Daughter converted to LDS

[daniden]

Well, jane doe, if a Mormon kid converted to Catholicism and sounded like this troubled girl, I would like to think I would have much the same reaction I do to reading this.

And I would really hope that the RCIA director would not recommend to baptize her, if, as her parent says, she does not even believe in big parts of the faith to which she is supposed to be converting.

And the parent explicitly said that he or she told the daughter that she was not going to Hell. Your last sentence is the opposite of analogous.

Maybe it is just hard asses of the world uniting, but I kinda feel for Tevya in Fiddler on the Roof when his daughter becomes a Christian. And I would kinda get a Mormon mom and dad asking an older child not to proselytize their younger siblings.

That’s the thing too. They ‘baptized’ and "confirmed’ her, knowing she has issues. I really don’t think they care that she had a ‘full testimony’ either. They figure she’ll probably learn the “meat” of the faith later (although she already knows a lot of it), it’s just about getting her in.

 

[claymcdermott]

jane doe apologized for misreading your entry and said that the issue touched a nerve with her personal life, which I think is why her entry seemed uncharacteristic of her.

I think we all really are routing for your family. I really hope you guys work this stuff out.

You seem like a good and patient mom.

God bless you guys

 

[jane_doe]

We have NOT been hostile towards our daughter (I’m her mom by the way), but when she converted, we told her that there were certain rules she needed to abide by since she still lived in our home. She said it was fair and agreed to it.

That is a relief to hear! I apologize for jumping to pessimistic conclusions… guess I’ve been spending too much time online hearing about extreme examples. And admittedly it hit a nerve from bad experiences in my personal life.

And seriously? Why should we let her talk about LDS teachings to our younger children? What kind of message would that send to them? We are devoutly Catholic and that just wouldn’t be right to let her do that and confuse our younger children too. That just doesn’t make sense.

I suppose it’s a parenting style thing. In my house, we openly welcomed respectful discussion of all faiths, including Catholic and non-Christian faiths. Despite growing up LDS, most of my friends growing up were Catholic and I attended many masses, Confirmations, Stations of the Cross, etc. I was/am grateful for the opportunity to learn about other people and respect them.

She does have some interests, but because all her LDS activities take up so much of her time, she really doesn’t pursue them or if she does, it’s within the LDS church with her friends. It’s her whole life right now. Another thing I should have mentioned is that she has tried many different things before, trying so hard to find herself and figure out who she is and what she wants. I think, she feels the LDS church fulfills this for her…at least for now.

YSA groups have lots of activities to open up lots of options, vast majority are just social, and a person is by no means excepted to go to all. If she’s going overboard to the point of neglecting her family… that’s not right.

That’s the thing too. They ‘baptized’ and "confirmed’ her, knowing she has issues. I really don’t think they care that she had a ‘full testimony’ either…

When a person converts to Catholicism, are they required to have a 100% sure testimony of every aspect of the faith? (I’m asking honestly because I honestly don’t know the answer).

Praying for the best for your whole family.

 

[daniden]

jane doe apologized for misreading your entry and said that the issue touched a nerve with her personal life, which I think is why her entry seemed uncharacteristic of her.

I think we all really are routing for your family. I really hope you guys work this stuff out.

You seem like a good and patient mom.

God bless you guys

It touched a nerve with me too because she was making assumptions about how we handled and are still handling this. It’s just all very frustrating.

And while I don’t know the particular circumstances, other that the fact that she, too, has aspergers, she doesn’t know our daughter, personally, either. Our daughter is kind of immature, emotionally, and some aspects of adulthood, she doesn’t quite “get” either. We know it will take her longer for her to fully mature and we’re trying to be as patient as we can with her. But some days, admittedly, are harder than others.

 

[claymcdermott]

To your last question jane doe, they actually do have to attest to the truth of the Catholic faith in toto. Obviously, they do not run you through every theological concept and council and arguably infallible papal statement ever, but you swear to God that you believe all that the Church teaches as being true and revealed by God, and presumably RCIA exposed you to quite a lot of it.

This is after making a credo in the form of what we call Baptismal promises, in which you say you believe a bunch of stuff and will do a bunch of stuff, and wont do other stuff, assuming you haven’t been baptized yet when you convert.

Either way, yeah. You gotta go all in.

 

[claymcdermott]

daniden, I can only imagine. And OF COURSE no one else knows your case.

And it seems to me like her problems are very serious and you are an excellent mother and love your daughter and feel her pain.

 

[venite_adoremus]

First things first. Prayers for you and your family. I recommend Mary Magdalene, the patroness of the Salt Lake City cathedral parish as the Madeleine. Inscribed on the walls of the cathedral is a quotation from Galatians 1:8. utcotm.org/

Second. Do you have handy a copy of Isaiah Bennett’s wonderful book, Inside Mormonism? I believe it’s still in print. It’s indispensable for what you’re going through. It provides a solid, rational Catholic answer to the problem of LDS conversion.

Third. If and when she receives the endowment, she may come away from it frightened, and unable to talk about it. Refute me if you wish, LDS contributors to the Forum, but there are some pretty hefty oaths that are sworn in the temple under significant penalties. Including secrecy, for divulging what “goes on in there.” Don’t hesitate to get counseling for her if her panic attacks increase.

The best thing you can give her at this point in her life is unconditional love, with the rules in place you’ve already given her. Let her know the door is open. Let her know a return to the Church is as close as a good confession, no ifs ands or buts. Become literate yourself on the basis of the claims of LDS versus the scriptures, authentically interpreted and fairly presented. Give her time.

If she is as intelligent as I believe she is (and having been a special education paraprofessional with many Asperger’s students and others on the spectrum over the years), she will realize where her path has led, and will reverse course when the emotional satisfaction from the recreation programs dies down.

 

[jane_doe]

And while I don’t know the particular circumstances, other that the fact that she, too, has aspergers, she doesn’t know our daughter, personally, either. Our daughter is kind of immature, emotionally, and some aspects of adulthood, she doesn’t quite “get” either. We know it will take her longer for her to fully mature and we’re trying to be as patient as we can with her. But some days, admittedly, are harder than others.

Short version: I have Asperger’s. Growing up I had a very strained relationship with my mother whom assumed that I did things for shallow social reasons and honestly doesn’t understand me that well. I grew up LDS. As an adult I walked away from the faith for several years, including quitting BYU-Idaho. My mother, while very well intentioned and very loving, didn’t understand my reasoning, believed me to be immature, and went BALLISTIC. I’m the eldest, and she… didn’t outright forbid me from talking to my siblings about this, but it was extremely disapproved of. (Obviously it’s far from identical to your situation, but ballpark enough it hit a nerve).

Fast forward to my 30’s: I have come back to my childhood faith (on MY terms) and my relationship with has improved drastically, though understanding can still be lacking.

 

[jane_doe]

To your last question jane doe, they actually do have to attest to the truth of the Catholic faith in toto. Obviously, they do not run you through every theological concept and council and arguably infallible papal statement ever, but you swear to God that you believe all that the Church teaches as being true and revealed by God, and presumably RCIA exposed you to quite a lot of it.

This is after making a credo in the form of what we call Baptismal promises, in which you say you believe a bunch of stuff and will do a bunch of stuff, and wont do other stuff, assuming you haven’t been baptized yet when you convert.

Either way, yeah. You gotta go all in.

So may a person be baptized/convert Catholic while still uncertain about Marian doctrines, papal infallibility, or birth control stances? (I’m just naming some examples)

 

[jane_doe]

If and when she receives the endowment, she may come away from it frightened, and unable to talk about it. Refute me if you wish, LDS contributors to the Forum, but there are some pretty hefty oaths that are sworn in the temple under significant penalties. Including secrecy, for divulging what “goes on in there.”

(Clarifying things here)
“there are some pretty hefty oaths that are sworn in the temple under significant penalties.” – No.

" Including secrecy, for divulging what “goes on in there.” " – There are some things in the temple which are only talked about in the temple. This list is actually pretty short, and mostly involves ritual mechanics (which are all 300% symbolic anyway). Vast majority is not secretive.

Don’t hesitate to get counseling for her if her panic attacks increase.

Panic attacks-- anyone of any faith at any stage of life who’s having panic attacks should get counseling. Counseling is a great thing and can really make a positive effect!

 

[jaimeleglise]

I believe that you are doing all the right things and handling this difficult situation well. She may change her mind one day.

Perhaps when she gets her new job she will make better friends.

We will pray for you.

 

[venite_adoremus]

When a person converts to Catholicism, are they required to have a 100% sure testimony of every aspect of the faith? (I’m asking honestly because I honestly don’t know the answer).

As a convert in the 1970s, I made my profession of faith in a public oath, clutching a Bible, “so help me God and these Holy Scriptures” in my hand, that I believed the articles of the Apostles Creed, that there were seven Sacraments, that the Holy Father was the vicar of Jesus Christ on earth, that certain dogmas regarding Mary were true, that there was a purgatory, and several other salient points. It’s a profession of faith that’s still out there. The short version is the Apostles Creed only. This is not a “sure testimony” in the sense of LDS practice, Jane Doe. It is more than a testimony. It is an act of will cutting to the very heart of your soul, and giving that soul to a Higher Power. May you experience its liberation someday!

 

[claymcdermott]

I imagine that it happens, and I know of a case, second hand, through a protestant explaining why he was not Catholic, so I take it with a grain of salt, of someone convoluting the meanings of things beyond recognition by ignoring key words in the sentences she was attesting to her belief in, but that is really more her problem if it actually occurred.

But it would be my reading, that becoming Catholic, based on all the things you have to say during what is a very long ceremony full of saying stuff, would require an honest person to believe in those things.

I cannot really see an honest person saying the things you have to swear to God in the Easter Vigil Mass, where most converts get baptized or confirmed, and not believing in the things you mention.

 

[daniden]

That is a relief to hear! I apologize for jumping to pessimistic conclusions… guess I’ve been spending too much time online hearing about extreme examples. And admittedly it hit a nerve from bad experiences in my personal life.

I suppose it’s a parenting style thing. In my house, we openly welcomed respectful discussion of all faiths, including Catholic and non-Christian faiths. Despite growing up LDS, most of my friends growing up were Catholic and I attended many masses, Confirmations, Stations of the Cross, etc. I was/am grateful for the opportunity to learn about other people and respect them.

YSA groups have lots of activities to open up lots of options, vast majority are just social, and a person is by no means excepted to go to all. If she’s going overboard to the point of neglecting her family… that’s not right.

When a person converts to Catholicism, are they required to have a 100% sure testimony of every aspect of the faith? (I’m asking honestly because I honestly don’t know the answer).

Praying for the best for your whole family.

I’m sorry I jumped all over you. That wasn’t very charitable of me. It just kinda felt like you were judging my parenting. I apologize.

The thing about our daughter is once she gets an idea in her head, she goes ALL OUT and does go overboard sometimes. She is very black and white, with no in-between a lot. Her whole life is LDS functions…there’s nothing else right now and she goes to just about everything…no exaggeration.

To answer your question about conversion to Catholicism, you need to go to RCIA for at least one year. I’m sure you don’t have to know everything about the faith, but they also don’t hide anything from you either (“milk before meat”, so to speak).

We are very open to discussing other faiths, but when it comes to her talking to our younger children about these things (they are 11, 9, and 4), it would probably be really confusing for them.

We love our daughter and want what’s truly best for her. We have also let her make the decision to convert hers to make too. It wasn’t what we wanted and we still hope and pray she comes back, but it is her journey. I’m just still having a tough time dealing with it because it’s around us all the time and I can never get away from it since she still lives here. I thank you for the prayers…if nothing else, for peace…for me.

 

[jane_doe]

I’m sorry I jumped all over you. That wasn’t very charitable of me. It just kinda felt like you were judging my parenting. I apologize.

All is forgiven, friend

 

[daniden]

First things first. Prayers for you and your family. I recommend Mary Magdalene, the patroness of the Salt Lake City cathedral parish as the Madeleine. Inscribed on the walls of the cathedral is a quotation from Galatians 1:8. utcotm.org/

Second. Do you have handy a copy of Isaiah Bennett’s wonderful book, Inside Mormonism? I believe it’s still in print. It’s indispensable for what you’re going through. It provides a solid, rational Catholic answer to the problem of LDS conversion.

Third. If and when she receives the endowment, she may come away from it frightened, and unable to talk about it. Refute me if you wish, LDS contributors to the Forum, but there are some pretty hefty oaths that are sworn in the temple under significant penalties. Including secrecy, for divulging what “goes on in there.” Don’t hesitate to get counseling for her if her panic attacks increase.

The best thing you can give her at this point in her life is unconditional love, with the rules in place you’ve already given her. Let her know the door is open. Let her know a return to the Church is as close as a good confession, no ifs ands or buts. Become literate yourself on the basis of the claims of LDS versus the scriptures, authentically interpreted and fairly presented. Give her time.

If she is as intelligent as I believe she is (and having been a special education paraprofessional with many Asperger’s students and others on the spectrum over the years), she will realize where her path has led, and will reverse course when the emotional satisfaction from the recreation programs dies down.

Yes, we have that book. And I believe she has also read parts of it, before her conversion.

And yes, we are also giving her unconditional love…that’s a given.

We are doing much research on LDS teachings vs Holy Scripture. She knows the door is always open and she’d just need to go to confession.

As far as the endowment ceremony, she truly believes it is written in scripture, even though we’ve talked to her (and sent her info to refute it). I’m pretty sure they took out the blood oath. The ceremony, from what I understand, has been rather “sugar-coated” over the years, so she may not come away from it frightened at all.

Just please pray for her that someday her eyes will be opened.

 

[daniden]

All is forgiven, friend

Thank you.

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

If it could be any consolation to you, years ago my daughter joined LDS. She decided this after talking to some young men who came to her door with the Book of Mormon. Not only that, but she had married into a family whose relatives were Mormon. She didn’t like to go to church much and thought the Mormons would be lenient and easy-going.

She was a Mormon for four months. After that, she left. She said she was not so sure it was for her and that was it.

 

[daniden]

If it could be any consolation to you, years ago my daughter joined LDS. She decided this after talking to some young men who came to her door with the Book of Mormon. Not only that, but she had married into a family whose relatives were Mormon. She didn’t like to go to church much and thought the Mormons would be lenient and easy-going.

She was a Mormon for four months. After that, she left. She said she was not so sure it was for her and that was it.

So, not to be nosy, but is she still married into that Mormon family?

 

[ichabode]

I have never understood how people convert to the LDS church. It simply baffles me. The racism within the LDS church is astonishing some much so that Joseph Smith wrote it into the Book of Mormon. The idea that you become more white skinned the holier you get is absurd and untenable. To join a church that believes and teaches that after a group fell away that their god cursed that group the Lamenites with dark skin would be laughable it it was not doctrine. You would think the KKK started the LDS church.

Another thing Joseph Smith was just like all the other turn of the century false prophets arousing their followers that the end was right around the corner. After all they are the church of latter DAYS. Perhaps in 15 more years they should change their name to the Church of Latter Centuries.

I doubt your daughter joined because of the teachings, but more because of her friendships. Perhaps you could read 2 Nephi with her and as you walk around gossip about what sin and how unloved Africans, Hispanics, and Indians are in the face of god.

It simply baffles me.