Daughter won't baptize baby

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Please don’t baptize your grandchild on your own. That is not the way to go.

I read through your previous threads. And while I empathize greatly with your frustration and hurt, I would encourage you—in all kindness—to take a few steps back and give your daughter some space. If you ever want your daughter to return to the faith and if you ever want your grandson to be baptized, you are going to need to back off a bit. We cannot berate or shame people into accepting Christ.

Your daughter has made some poor decisions, but look at the opportunity you have before you. She is there with you. She has chosen life for her baby. Now you get to model what forgiveness and unconditional love really looks like. And it certainly isn’t always easy!

I just ask you to consider some self-reflection. Ask yourself if there are things you are doing and things you are saying that might actually be turning her off of the faith rather than drawing her to the faith. If your daughter sees you only as someone who is going to blow up at her or nag her or lay on a guilt trip, she is not going to want to open up to you. If that’s what traits your faith gives you, why would she want that? We want to attract people by the way we live our Catholic faith.

And, yes, that will mean putting up with certain things you do not like. Not, of course, that you have to go around telling her things like “premarital sex is really not a sin.” But I’d wager she probably already knows how you feel about that subject. What she needs to see more from you now is love, kindness, and mercy.

Again, I understand why you feel hurt and upset. That’s fine to feel that way. But please give some real time in prayer thinking about how you ought to respond to your daughter in a way that will ultimately help her get to heaven rather than potentially drive her away from the Church for good.
 
tseleehw said:
for example, he advised a homosexual couple to follow their conscience and receive the Eucharist against Church teaching if they felt they should).
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Please give a credible, reliable source for this. And “Lifesite News” does not count.
 
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I asked the same thing, I’m guessing that @tseleehw does not have a reliable source to post.
 
Note: The OP has not posted since their first post.
This has become a debate, not an attempt to resolve the situation.
I have reason to suspect that there is more to the situation than the OP has shared here. I base this on her other posts and threads that she has started here.
I’m not going to report this, but think…are you being helpful in any way? And, just because I’m not going to do so, doesn’t mean that this thread won’t get reported.
OP, on the chance that you are genuinely concerned, try the ‘Ask an Apologist’ forum. I’ve heard that they won’t accept attitude, so leave your opinions outside, and just ask about your grandson, and the protocol for getting him baptized, your daughter and the baby’s fathers views…things having to do with baptism, what it is and isn’t. I believe they have a list of guidelines. (They did, in the older format). Follow those rules, and, hopefully, your question will be answered.
 
I’m just saying, Baptism doesn’t make you a Catholic or a Baptist. It removes original sin and makes you a Christian.
As.a NICU RN, I baptized Babies that were dying. Unfortunately, I baptized a Jew. I confessed to the poor Mom. She was so gracious. “If it’s meant to help get him into heaven, I appreciate it.”
You know,if God, will keep a baby out of heaven, w/o Baptism, never receiving the Beatific Vision, I’D BAPTIZED! Limbo is a holding area that is a happy place. I hear Jesus visits.??? But, never being w Our Father, in the better Real Estate of Heaven, because of consideration of parents belief system… NOT ON MY WATCH!!
We’re going on a belief system, some coming from our Bible. Some tenets are orchestrated from the Catholic Church. If you compare:
1–baby going to Limbo for eternity, maybe seeing Jesus? W/O Baptism.
OR
2–baby going to heaven w our Father, seeing beatific vision W Baptism!
It’s easy! And picture Jesus, receiving this precious baby, & giving the Baby back to the angel, saying,”SEND HIM TO LIMBO, HE WASN’T BAPTIZED!
I can’t fathom that. Original sin, keeping an innocent out of heaven, w/o Baptism?? I’d suppose, Jesus would take the Baby, & as He held that Baby, the Original sin was erased. Being in Jesus’s arms imbibes us and surrounds
us w His love. Sin can’t be present in His presence.
When we die, we’ll find out Gods truth. He’ll laugh at some of our restrictions & assumptions.
As a nurse, in the 1970’s, if a pt was screaming for pain meds too often. The doctor would order placebo of saline. It worked 80%. During war, w shortage of Morphine, they had to smile & inject saline. “HERE’s some medicine to help you.” Today, ethically, they won’t do this. It’s basically, correct to not, give fake stuff. BUT, there may be a day, when the meds are not available & the pt is suffering, where a placebo is given, again. Placebo=Less suffering.
Baptism=Heaven.
God understand our foolish actions to save souls.
 
tweedlealice said:
God understand our foolish actions to save souls.
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What you fail to understand is that the devil also understands our foolish actions.

The children who are Baptized and live and become adults are in a spiritually precarious position. They are beholden to Church law and rules. If the child is raised in a situation where he’s taught to hate religion by an Athiest, Baptism becomes a liability. It becomes the rooting spot for the devil to do his best to ensure the promises of Baptism are never met.

I take it you have never seen a child sob to go to Mass when his fallen away parent won’t take him. (baptized to make granny happy) It is a burden like none I’ve ever seen.
 
tweedlealice said:
I’m just saying, Baptism doesn’t make you a Catholic
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Um, yes it does.
tweedlealice said:
You know,if God, will keep a baby out of heaven, w/o Baptism, never receiving the Beatific Vision, I’D BAPTIZED! Limbo is a holding area that is a happy place. I hear Jesus visits.??? But, never being w Our Father, in the better Real Estate of Heaven, because of consideration of parents belief system… NOT ON MY WATCH!!
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the Church does not teach this.
tweedlealice said:
As.a NICU RN, I baptized Babies that were dying.
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this baby is not dying. So, it is not the same thing at all. The Church gives guidance through her law regarding babies who are not dying. We do not baptize them.
 
Actually, every Trinitarian Baptism joins one to the Church. There is only one Church.

Those who do not know the Catholic faith are joined imperfectly, however, remember the Church does not “re baptize” when they accept the fullness of the Catholic Faith.

I’d suggest reading the entire artlcle, this passage is very important:

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.” "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm
 
Baptism of a dying infant is an act of charity. As an RN, you well know when a baby is dying.
 
Code: 
 Oh I understand that,but one can’t be saying the name of Jesus and be operating under the devils domain. 
   Plus, you’re assuming that 1-the child would live!! 2-that they would be told. There is no confusion involved, if silence is kept. Now, if families are Catholics &Episcopalians (other Protestants don’t focus on it), I’d tell b/c of comfort for them. 
    How horrible is the sneakiness? None, the “worse” is a cleaner baby w water. Double Baptism isn’t necessary. A Baptism of necessity(per family desire)(or death), would be effective w Salvations goals. A formal Baptism would solrmnize the first( if known or not). If no effect, it’s another bath.  Plus, in the formal Baptism, we have the part w being LIGHT FOR CHRIST. The formal should be done, regardless. One day, the Vatican, will fine tune this process w/o it being heretical. ( bad joke). 
   The first church baptized all babies. Were some little,pagan babies baptized, I’m very sure...GOTTA BE BAPTIZED. 
   A action made w good intent isn’t a sin. 
    I wonder, if Catholics are too scrupulous, like little OCD ppl. I’m not quite a renegade but as Jesus thinker. Ask yourself, What would Jesus do? If you assume Jesus’s heart, He is all inclusive in love. He is judgement, also. BUT, suffer not, the little children, to come to me....
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
 
tweedlealice said:
Code: 
Oh I understand that,but one can’t be saying the name of Jesus and be operating under the devils domain. 
   Plus, you’re assuming that 1-the child would live!! 2-that they would be told. There is no confusion involved, if silence is kept. Now, if families are Catholics &Episcopalians (other Protestants don’t focus on it), I’d tell b/c of comfort for them. 
    How horrible is the sneakiness? None, the “worse” is a cleaner baby w water. Double Baptism isn’t necessary. A Baptism of necessity(per family desire)(or death), would be effective w Salvations goals. A formal Baptism would solrmnize the first( if known or not). If no effect, it’s another bath.  Plus, in the formal Baptism, we have the part w being LIGHT FOR CHRIST. The formal should be done, regardless. One day, the Vatican, will fine tune this process w/o it being heretical. ( bad joke). 
   The first church baptized all babies. Were some little,pagan babies baptized, I’m very sure...GOTTA BE BAPTIZED. 
   A action made w good intent isn’t a sin. 
    I wonder, if Catholics are too scrupulous, like little OCD ppl. I’m not quite a renegade but as Jesus thinker. Ask yourself, What would Jesus do? If you assume Jesus’s heart, He is all inclusive in love. He is judgement, also. BUT, suffer not, the little children, to come to me....
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Please, stop telling the OP it’s okay to baptise her daughter’s baby. It isn’t. Her daughter doesn’t want it done and under the circumstances neither would any Priest worth his salt. As I said, the rules are there for a reason and they need to be followed.
 
tweedlealice said:
Oh I understand that,but one can’t be saying the name of Jesus and be operating under the devils domain.
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In that moment? Yes, but the rest of the child’s life does not garner the same protection
tweedlealice said:
Plus, you’re assuming that 1-the child would live!! 2-that they would be told. There is no confusion involved, if silence is kept. Now, if families are Catholics &Episcopalians (other Protestants don’t focus on it), I’d tell b/c of comfort for them.
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I literally said, you’re not taking into account if the child lives.
No confusion involved if silence is kept?

NO! Baptism is an indelible mark on the SOUL!
tweedlealice said:
How horrible is the sneakiness? None, the “worse” is a cleaner baby w water. Double Baptism isn’t necessary. A Baptism of necessity(per family desire)(or death), would be effective w Salvations goals. A formal Baptism would solrmnize the first( if known or not). If no effect, it’s another bath. Plus, in the formal Baptism, we have the part w being LIGHT FOR CHRIST. The formal should be done, regardless. One day, the Vatican, will fine tune this process w/o it being heretical. ( bad joke).
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The sneakiness is very sinful. It is an abuse of faith and faith practices. Again Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul, no matter the belief of the child’s parents.
tweedlealice said:
The first church baptized all babies. Were some little,pagan babies baptized, I’m very sure…GOTTA BE BAPTIZED. A action made w good intent isn’t a sin. I wonder, if Catholics are too scrupulous, like little OCD ppl. I’m not quite a renegade but as Jesus thinker. Ask yourself, What would Jesus do? If you assume Jesus’s heart, He is all inclusive in love. He is judgement, also. BUT, suffer not, the little children, to come to me…
Click to expand...
The first church did NOT baptize pagan babies of pagan families. The baptized households. The master of the house had a right to define the religion of his household. They didn’t go about Baptizing pagan babies in the streets.

You are again, abusing a sacrament. You are not a renegade or a “Jesus thinker”. You are misusing a sacrament and encouraging others to do the same. There are different forms of Baptism that cover those who cannot receive water. It’s you who are not trusting in Jesus’ mercy.
 
Can you provide documentation that the early Church baptized “pagan” babies without parental consent?
 
I see you are back, after abandoning your last thread. Did you read that thread? Did you think about or consider anything anyone said on it?

Show love to your daughter. That’s what you need to do right now. Show. Love.
 
What I see here is not love but manipulation and a violation of trust. He will be raised Catholic because you take him to church? What if his mother says no?
This child is not a pawn in some mommy grandma power struggle. He is a child of God loved by God as is your daughter.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Can you provide documentation that the early Church baptized “pagan” babies without parental consent?
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I’d caveat that with the early Church baptized ‘pagan’ babies without head-of-household concent. There were most certainly servants, and children of servants, who did not want to be baptized but had to be as society at the time made the head-of-household the person who was the final-decision maker. Of course, one could make the argument that this was an extension of paternal duty given the nature of the work and society.
 
This was in no way an official policy of the Church. One human mistake does not change doctrine nor law.
 
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