Dawkin's God Delusion

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Tracing a puddle of milk back to a milk jug is not possible because any evidence of its shape is drowned in noise. Evidence of how the solar system came about is not.

He also seems to be conflating “accident” with “random,” as if our brains, materialistic thought they are, are not well adapted to simple syllogistic logic. Lewis’s attempt to use logic here foils his own argument.
defenseofreason.com/c-s-lewis-thinks-about-thinking-and-fails/
Actually, I read this article and find it not compelling in the least. The author doesn’t engage with Lewis’ argument which was specifically regarding ‘naturalism’ or the notion that all our thinking is reducible to chemical processes. Lewis argues that this cannot be the case because “having a reason for” a belief about reality is not the same as “being caused to” have a belief.

Causal relationships are, from what we can tell, inevitable, in the sense that a causal relationship between two events means that the effect is an inevitable result of the cause. There is no intentionality involved. This is not essentially true about thinking and coming to beliefs about certain propositions.

The other point that ought to be well considered is that “matter” is a conceptual entity. Everything we know or have come to believe about matter is completely hinged upon how our minds apprehend or entertain thoughts about it. Even the nature of causality is dependent upon having reasons for believing it is so.

In terms of any knowledge we have about reality, it is entirely based upon our intellectual capacity for constructing a plausible world view about it. The physical world is at ground, an intellectual construct through which we “interpret” what we suppose is there regarding physicality.

Best not dispose of the very grounds we have for thinking matter might exist by denying the existence of those grounds in favour of a physical explanation about which we can have no real assurance concerning its explanatory adequacy. In particular, when you are willing to freely admit its "meaninglessness.’
 
Unfortunately for you, claiming that “everything happens…without inherent meaning” is an incoherent position to take.

Consider what it means to believe something to be true (including that “Everything happens based on the laws of physics, without inherent meaning.”)

If a proposition (like yours) is to mean anything, it must mean that we have sufficient reason for believing (i.e., are rationally justified in believing) that the proposition is true. It also means that these reasons are sufficient as the cause or explanation for our acceptance of the proposition.

Yet, if things happen, in reality, “without inherent meaning” then your claim is that there is NOTHING in physical reality that could possibly serve as a sufficient reason or cause for our accepting the explanatory value found in nature regarding any conclusions we might attempt to make about the physical world.

Yet, what reason would we have for accepting your contention that NO reasons ultimately exist in physical reality? You are making a “brute claim” concerning where our reasons for believing anything are not to be found. We have no reasons for having reasons, according to your position.

Simply put, you are cutting off the branch of the tree that supports any weight of what you have to say on the matter. In other words, your position is self-defeating.

It’s like saying, “Believe me, you have good reason for believing that everything I have to say is true, except of course, this statement.”

Edward Feser makes this point in defense of the principle of sufficient reason (PSR) contra the position of Keith Parsons on “brute facts” in nature, which I read to be similar to your claim on the “ultimate meaninglessness” of physical reality.
👍

I like Ravi Zacharias’ response to the philosopher David Hume in his book 'Jesus Among other Gods"

David Hume say’s -

If we take in our hand any volume: of divinity or school of metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existance? No. Commit it then to the flames; For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion. - David Hume

In other words, if you can’t hold God in your hands, than you have no facts to hang onto. If a statement doesn’t fit mathematics or science than it must be tossed into the flames.

The only problem with this test of truth is that Hume’s test itself does not pass the test. David Hume’s declaration isn’t scientific and it isn’t mathematical, If a statement must be either produced by math or verified by science to be true, then David Hume’s statement (that a statement must be either produced by math or verified by science to be true) itself must be false.

‘The emeperor has no clothes, while boasting the finest threads.’

I also like where John Lennox quotes Richard Swinburne in his book “Has Science Buried God?” on the ‘God of the Gaps’ idea.

‘I am not postulating a “God of the Gaps”, a God merely to explain the things that science has not yet explained. I am postulating a God to explain why science explains; I do not deny that science explains, but I postulate a God to explain why science explains.’ - Richard Swinburne

John Lennox also gives a fantastic illustration on the “God of the Gaps” argument Dawkins uses, if anyone still finds the “God of the Gaps” argument Dawkins uses convinving when it comes to Christianity, please let me know and i’ll quote for you John lennox’s illustration. 🙂

I also like what Anthony Flew said -

"Some have said that the laws of nature are simply accidental results of the way the universe cooled after the big bang. But, as Rees has pointed out, even such accidents can be regarded as secondary manifestations of deeper laws governing the ensemble of universes. Again, even the evolution of the laws of nature and changes to the constants follow certain laws. 'We’re still left with the question of how these “deeper” laws originated. No matter how far you push back the properties of the universe as somehow “emergent,” their very emergence has to follow certain prior laws.'1 So multiverse or not, we still have to come to terms with the origin of the laws of nature. And the only viable explanation here is the divine Mind.” - Anthony Flew

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I never read this book nor do I plan to in fear of losing my faith but I DO know that some brave Catholics read this book and lived to tell the tale. I need help considering whether to read this or not or to read another book that somehow debunks this?
I wouldn’t worry much about Dawkins and friends.

Antidotes -

The Irrational Atheist (free download)

Life After Death: The Evidence

The Dawkins Delusion?

God is No Delusion: A Refutation of Richard Dawkins


**The Delusion of Disbelief:

**The Origin of Life - Professor John Walton demonstates the odds against a random start-video
 
Cliff Notes to The God Delusion:
  • If God made everything then who made God? (Can’t answer that one, you stupid Catholics!)
  • Also, God is mean.
  • Also, the Church is mean.
  • Religious people are just too scared and stupid to be atheists.
There. I saved you ten dollars and hours of your life.
 
I never read this book nor do I plan to in fear of losing my faith but I DO know that some brave Catholics read this book and lived to tell the tale. I need help considering whether to read this or not or to read another book that somehow debunks this?
Read the good Catholic Books that the other posters recommended, the ones that debunk the errors of Atheism and provide wonderful arguments for the existence of God. Also, read the first chapter of the Catechism of the Catholic Church; this chapter deals with the nature of God, His existence and His relationship to man. Hope this helps
 
I actually read several Dawkins books from his earlier days before he started going totally crazy. The earlier books were more about defending science in general (and Darwin in particular) from misconceptions and misunderstandings. Then he went into a phase of “science is everything and if you don’t fully accept it you’re stupid”. At that point i started getting more skeptical but still gave him the benefit of the doubt. Then he began to drift into this atheism thing and I lost interst.
 
In case someone hasn’t already posted it: Ed Feser’s The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism
http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Superstition-Refutation-Atheism/dp/1587314525
amazon.com/The-Last-Superstition-Refutation-Atheism/dp/1587314525

Check out his blog: edwardfeser.blogspot.com/
Please get this, and his book Aquinas: amazon.com/Aquinas-Beginners-Guide-Edward-Feser/dp/1851686908

As a student of Scholastic philosophy, I can say that Feser’s books are excellent and far beyond your typical apologetics materials. They are much more than a defense of God - they are an introduction to an entire discipline of philosophy and are simply on a much more sophisticated level than shorter, less comprehensive or less academic works. (And they are introductory and do not presuppose knowledge of the concepts.)
 
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