Dawkins on Colbert Report

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I don’t know how many of you know who Richard Dawkins is, so I’ll give you a hint: he’s a rabid atheist (and possibly anti-theist) who writes quite cogently on the corrosiveness of religious beliefs. He was on TV the other day, being ‘interviewed’ by ‘devout Catholic’ Stephen Colbert. What do you think, guys? I’ve read that Dawkins is a formidable debater and quite a scourge for Christians. He usually concentrates on topics like creationism and intelligent design, but takes forays into basic religion bashing. So, I ask you again, what do you think? Why do you think Dawkins is such a rabid atheist? Does he scare you? He kinda freaks me out.
 
Well, before your thread gets moved or closed (no link to a news item…I had to go to www.comedycentral.com , click on videos, then motherload and find the interview), I will comment.

He’s not scary - just a typical athiest scientist who doesn’t believe in God and says the rest of us are stupid and/or delusional. Colbert was very funny and not irreverent in his interview. Dawkins used a typical supposed show stopper “well, then where does God come from?” which is easily countered with “well, where did matter come from?”

Anyway, it was humorous, which is what I expect from Colbert.
I don’t know how many of you know who Richard Dawkins is, so I’ll give you a hint: he’s a rabid atheist (and possibly anti-theist) who writes quite cogently on the corrosiveness of religious beliefs. He was on TV the other day, being ‘interviewed’ by ‘devout Catholic’ Stephen Colbert. What do you think, guys? I’ve read that Dawkins is a formidable debater and quite a scourge for Christians. He usually concentrates on topics like creationism and intelligent design, but takes forays into basic religion bashing. So, I ask you again, what do you think? Why do you think Dawkins is such a rabid atheist? Does he scare you? He kinda freaks me out.
 
Well, before your thread gets moved or closed (no link to a news item…I had to go to www.comedycentral.com , click on videos, then motherload and find the interview), I will comment.

He’s not scary - just a typical athiest scientist who doesn’t believe in God and says the rest of us are stupid and/or delusional. Colbert was very funny and not irreverent in his interview. Dawkins used a typical supposed show stopper “well, then where does God come from?” which is easily countered with “well, where did matter come from?”

Anyway, it was humorous, which is what I expect from Colbert.
I don’t know how many of you know who Richard Dawkins is, so I’ll give you a hint: he’s a rabid atheist (and possibly anti-theist) who writes quite cogently on the corrosiveness of religious beliefs. He was on TV the other day, being ‘interviewed’ by ‘devout Catholic’ Stephen Colbert. What do you think, guys? I’ve read that Dawkins is a formidable debater and quite a scourge for Christians. He usually concentrates on topics like creationism and intelligent design, but takes forays into basic religion bashing. So, I ask you again, what do you think? Why do you think Dawkins is such a rabid atheist? Does he scare you? He kinda freaks me out.
 
I’ll help with a link, of sorts

bluesci.org/

has a talk he gave last week here in Cambridge.

I went, but I failed to get in because it was so popular :eek:

I’ve got very little time for him, to be honest, when he goes on about religion. I think his work on biology is very good, and he should stick with that. He seems to think that the only logical position for a religious person is to be a fundamentalist, then he goes on to demolish the fundamentalist case - which imo is fair enough for fundamentalists, but he ignores the vast swathes of those who are religious but not fundamentalist. He does also acknowledge that this is a problem - in the interview at that website, he does agree that his attacks on all religious people, even those who agree with evolution, may well be counter-productive. And I’m sure we’ll see why, in this thread, if it stays open long enough.

No doubt some people around here are now going to come along and say that if you believe in evolution, you have to think like Dawkins. That’s no more true than if you’re a Christian, you have to believe in sola scriptura. Won’t stop people saying it though :rolleyes:

Mike
 
Well, before your thread gets moved or closed (no link to a news item…I had to go to www.comedycentral.com , click on videos, then motherload and find the interview), I will comment.
I’m sure that could work a whole lot better. It won’t accept anything less than the latest version of Firefox, for example. Naughty Comedy Central 😦

Mike
 
Watching or reading Richard Dawkins addressing theological and epistemological issues reminds me of watching the most stereotypical uneducated tent-revival preacher you can imagine grappling with geology and cellular biology–i.e., it’s like watching the proverbial monkey do the proverbial with the proverbial football.

There are intelligent, philosophically sophisticated athiests out there–I’ve seen 'em–and if I were one, I’d be madder at Dawkins than any Christian ought to be. In fact, I’d wonder if he wasn’t on the payroll of some church. Seldom will Comedy Central air such an eloquent (if unintentional) spokesman for theism.
 
What do you guys think of Sam Harris, then?

I remember reading once, I think in Chesterton, was that the one virtue all atheists seem to have was their fierceness. These guys seem to exemplify that, Dawkins and Harris. They usually don’t bother me, but I’m certainly not a philosopher on par enough to deal with their strong prima facie claims in like kind.

It’s always tougher on the respondent in any conversation to come up with an equally strong and witty reply to a contention. I always try to do that when I listen to the two of them talk… it’s tough.

I love hearing what you guys say about 'em though. If you guys can piece through their garbage, then there must be a way. God bless you all!
 
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I don’t feel threatened by athiests like Dawkins or Harris. In fact, quite the opposite- I feel pity for them. Us Catholics have our faith to guide us in life, support us in difficult times, and enable us to experience a pure form of love and joy in life. Athiests don’t. The fact that a scientist like Dawkins feels the need to speak out so strongly against religion leads me to think that he is really struggling with the issue of religion and his natural, God-given tendency towards faith. I think athiests like Dawkins, almost more than anyone else, need our prayers the most because they are so entrenched in their anti-religious views that they risk never coming to know the love and joy of God.
 
Here’s an excerpt from the NY Times’s review of Dawkins’ book The God Delusion:

What Dawkins brings to this approach is a couple of fresh arguments — no mean achievement, considering how thoroughly these issues have been debated over the centuries — and a great deal of passion. The book fairly crackles with brio. Yet reading it can feel a little like watching a Michael Moore movie. There is lots of good, hard-hitting stuff about the imbecilities of religious fanatics and frauds of all stripes, but the tone is smug and the logic occasionally sloppy. Dawkins fans accustomed to his elegant prose might be surprised to come across such vulgarisms as “sucking up to God” and “Nur Nurny Nur Nur” (here the author, in a dubious polemical ploy, is imagining his theological adversary as a snotty playground brat). It’s all in good fun when Dawkins mocks a buffoon like Pat Robertson and fundamentalist pastors like the one who created “Hell Houses” to frighten sin-prone children at Halloween. But it is less edifying when he questions the sincerity of serious thinkers who disagree with him, like the late Stephen Jay Gould, or insinuates that recipients of the million-dollar-plus Templeton Prize, awarded for work reconciling science and spirituality, are intellectually dishonest (and presumably venal to boot). In a particularly low blow, he accuses Richard Swinburne, a philosopher of religion and science at Oxford, of attempting to “justify the Holocaust,” when Swinburne was struggling to square such monumental evils with the existence of a loving God.
 
He’s a closet Catholic and he needs an epiphany.
Who, Stephen Colbert?

I can’t see why anyone, anywhere would be threatened by Richard Dawkins. His arguments are only polemical with a very small sliver of truth to them. I’ve no doubt that he’s a brilliant scientist but it’s easy to see he’s no theologian (Or would that be “atheologian”?).
 
I hardly think one could call Richard Dawkins a “closet Catholic”. I’m certain he would take exception to that and even if he doesn’t I do. I don’t want anyone so vehemently anti-religion even marginally related to the Church.
 
I don’t know how many of you know who Richard Dawkins is, so I’ll give you a hint: he’s a rabid atheist (and possibly anti-theist) who writes quite cogently on the corrosiveness of religious beliefs. He was on TV the other day, being ‘interviewed’ by ‘devout Catholic’ Stephen Colbert. What do you think, guys? I’ve read that Dawkins is a formidable debater and quite a scourge for Christians. He usually concentrates on topics like creationism and intelligent design, but takes forays into basic religion bashing. So, I ask you again, what do you think? Why do you think Dawkins is such a rabid atheist? Does he scare you? He kinda freaks me out.
The typical atheist is a pseudo intellectual. The type of person who reads a couple of books on quantum physics and then lectures me abut the subject, even though I am a computer modeller who regularly reads scientific papers about quantum mechanical software models of molecules. Or who reads the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and fancies himself an expert on early church history.

Dawkins is a cut above. He does actually hold a professorial chair at a leading university.

Dawkins is absolutely right that creationists are, in philosophical terms, an irrelevance, but in political terms either a threat or a nuisance. The problem is that he has got the idea into his head that biblical literalism is real or normative Christianity, and though he knows that the Pope believes in evolution, he thinks it is some sort of sophisticated game to reconcile scinece with incompatible religious beliefs.

Dawkins is genuinely interested in getting to the truth. There is no reason to be scared. However poor and uneducated people, who don’t have much chance of seeing their children attend Oxford University, would do well to be wary of his values. They are not consciously intended to exclude them - I think Dawkins himself fancies himself as a bit of a leftie - but inevitably class interests win out.
 
The typical atheist is a pseudo intellectual. The type of person who reads a couple of books on quantum physics and then lectures me abut the subject, even though I am a computer modeller who regularly reads scientific papers about quantum mechanical software models of molecules. Or who reads the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and fancies himself an expert on early church history.

Dawkins is a cut above. He does actually hold a professorial chair at a leading university.
No doubt he’s an ornament to it. Nevertheless, such laurels are not transferrable. Dawkins could hold every honour that his chosen field–biology–has to offer, but he’d still have no more standing in a philosophical or theological arena than many posters on this forum, and a good deal less than some. In those latter fields, the man is precisely like the dabblers that you give as counterexamples. It’s entirely possible to be an honourable intellectual in one field, but to be no better than a pseudointellectual in another–happens all the time.
Dawkins is absolutely right that creationists are, in philosophical terms, an irrelevance, but in political terms either a threat or a nuisance. The problem is that he has got the idea into his head that biblical literalism is real or normative Christianity, and though he knows that the Pope believes in evolution, he thinks it is some sort of sophisticated game to reconcile scinece with incompatible religious beliefs.
I don’t hold with creationism, but neither do I care to dismiss its partisans so cavalierly. As Stephen Carter once pointed out, many creationists are impeccably scientific and far from irrelevant in their method: they simply differ with the likes of Dawkins on what counts as authoritative evidence. And contra the prevailing wisdom, it was Darwin’s successors who first decided that evolutionism and faith were incompatible at the very root, and it’s the likes of Dawkins today who posit an essentially closed choice between materialism and a semiliterate Biblical literalism. Given that choice, I’ll take my stand with the yokels any day. In fact, I’ll offer my own unfairly closed choice: which, in the long run, would be the greater “political threat or nuisance”–a nation run by the average creationist or one run by Richard Dawkins? I’ll not press you for an response, but suggest that the answer’s not immediately obvious by any means.
Dawkins is genuinely interested in getting to the truth. There is no reason to be scared. However poor and uneducated people, who don’t have much chance of seeing their children attend Oxford University, would do well to be wary of his values. They are not consciously intended to exclude them - I think Dawkins himself fancies himself as a bit of a leftie - but inevitably class interests win out.
I won’t presume to say what Dawkins’s motivations are, but if he’s “genuinely interested in getting to the truth” in matters religious, you could have fooled me: for such a dedicated seeker, his incuriosity and easy conclusions about religious people and their motivations is striking (cf. his conclusions on the Pope above). Regardless, sincerity is no guarantee of rigorous thinking, or of benign conclusions.
 
Dawkins, like many naturalists who use macro-evolution to make their atheism intellectually justifiable are really very afraid of creationism and the growing evidence against (or inexcusable lack thereof for) macro-evolution. There is video of him completely dumbfounded and unable to defend evolution in light of information theory and he’s completely unable to offer even one indisputable piece of evidence for any organism ‘evolving’ into another with a genetic gain in information.

Naturalistic macro-Evolution and any other so called ‘science’ basing it’s roots in assumed naturalistic philosophy is losing credibility. All that’s left for people like them to do now is simply cry and wail and throw out examples of religious people failing and committing violence, and using ‘separation of Church and State’ for forcing schools to teach macro-evolution uncritically as fact despite that they themselves are laughingly unable to prove it even close to better than Creationists can using the book of Genesis.

Don’t be afraid of people like him who use their intellectual credentials to intimidate you…
 
I don’t know how many of you know who Richard Dawkins is, so I’ll give you a hint: he’s a rabid atheist (and possibly anti-theist) who writes quite cogently on the corrosiveness of religious beliefs. He was on TV the other day, being ‘interviewed’ by ‘devout Catholic’ Stephen Colbert. What do you think, guys? I’ve read that Dawkins is a formidable debater and quite a scourge for Christians. He usually concentrates on topics like creationism and intelligent design, but takes forays into basic religion bashing. So, I ask you again, what do you think? Why do you think Dawkins is such a rabid atheist? Does he scare you? He kinda freaks me out.
Your worried about some antheist? How about Colbert the supposedly “devout Catholic”? I dont get the Catholic vibe coming from his show at all.

Other “Catholics” like Conan Obrien are anything but, he shamelessly mocks Christ on his show.
 
In a particularly low blow, he accuses Richard Swinburne, a philosopher of religion and science at Oxford, of attempting to “justify the Holocaust,” when Swinburne was struggling to square such monumental evils with the existence of a loving God.
I found that quote from the NY Times review strange when without a concept of absolute morality such as provided by God anything can be justified as acceptable by the moral relativity of where you’re standing at the time?

Dawkins spends so much time on the subject of religion I would also agree that he’s probably a closet catholic if only because “the lady doth protest too much” as the old saying goes.
 
Dawkins, like many naturalists who use macro-evolution to make their atheism intellectually justifiable are really very afraid of creationism and the growing evidence against (or inexcusable lack thereof for) macro-evolution. There is video of him completely dumbfounded and unable to defend evolution in light of information theory and he’s completely unable to offer even one indisputable piece of evidence for any organism ‘evolving’ into another with a genetic gain in information.

Naturalistic macro-Evolution and any other so called ‘science’ basing it’s roots in assumed naturalistic philosophy is losing credibility. All that’s left for people like them to do now is simply cry and wail and throw out examples of religious people failing and committing violence, and using ‘separation of Church and State’ for forcing schools to teach macro-evolution uncritically as fact despite that they themselves are laughingly unable to prove it even close to better than Creationists can using the book of Genesis.

Don’t be afraid of people like him who use their intellectual credentials to intimidate you…
Dawkins isn’t afraid of creationism. There are many, many lines of evidence for evolution. A lot of my work, on homology modelling of proteins, is predicated on the idea that evolution takes place.

However a skilled debater can sometimes muddy the waters, so that it looks to the layman that some sort of debate is going on, when really it isn’t. Gish is very accomplished and often beats a badly-prepared evolutionary biologist.

As for teaching the controversy, I think this is a very difficult area. In the United States matters are not helped by the law forbidding religious teaching in schools. Schoolchildren cannot do scientific rsearch, normally, nor can they debate scientific problems competently. However teaching that is purely a list of facts to check off is not effective or very useful, either. Then when otherwise responsible and respected adults are creationists, it is difficult to communicate the facts of the situation without undermining these adults.
 
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