Dawkins: Religion equals 'child abuse'

[Tantum_ergo]

Gottle, WHICH Churches “defended torture, slavery, etc.?” For sure it wasn’t the CATHOLIC church. . .

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Tantum, as a Catholic I hate to acknowledge it,
but there were periods (especially during the Spanish Inquisition) when some Church officials tolerated, if not openly approved, the use of torture. And I believe, but I’ll have to check on this, that Pope Pius the IX is quoted somewhere as saying that Slavery “is not against the Natural Law.” I read that somewhere not too long ago, but again, I’ll have to look up the references for you.
God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hi Jay:

Re the Spanish Inquisition, the Church itself did not advocate use of torture. (I know it sounds confusing, but one really needs to research the period thoroughly. It was the GOVERNMENT, not the Church, which did the actual “punishments”).

As for the slavery remark, it refers to chattel slavery. I know it sounds “weird” to modern ears, but in a sense, most of us are “slaves” to something or other. St. Louis de Montfort talks of being “slaves” of Jesus and Mary, for example. Being a “slave” of that type (a willing abandonment of oneself and all one possesses to God) is a GOOD thing. It is not slavery itself that is intrinsically wrong, but CHATTEL slavery, in which a human being is owned by ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, as PROPERTY, and THAT the Church has ALWAYS condemned.

 

[Ortho]

Genesis 9:25-27: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, ‘Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave’. "

 

[StubbleSpark]

## That overlooks three facts, if no more:

1. That there was a recognisably Christian enlightenment
2. That a great deal criticised by the “enlightened” richly deserved it - it was the Churches that favoured and defended torture, slavery, persecution, and tyranny: not the enlightened.
3. People have such a phobia of giving even an inch to an ill-defined “secularism”, that they are in real danger of defending the very things which would have made the birth of their own country impossible.

1. There always has been since Christ and there always will be a Christian enlightenment. But that does not mean that other currents of thought cannot become popular and take the reigns of society.
2. The “enlightened” were hypocrites who advocated the carrying of rabbit’s feet instead of rosaries and changed the Day of Candle Mass to Groundhog’s Day. Most of the cutting-edge science of the day they stood upon has been verified bunk (ie, ethers). In the end, where did they get their authority? The same place all relativists do: their numbers. They were not right, they were many.
3. How can possibly argue the prudence of giving up something well-defined (2000 year-old Christian thought) to something Ill-defined?

As far as the birth of country is concerned, it is unarguable that something better than America could have come along: entire communities built on slavery, massive persecutions of central and south American nations that continues to this day, two thousand innocent babies killed everyday, a whole host of Protestant and “Christian” denominations whose codified theology references the Catholic Church as the Church of Satan and the pope as the anti-Christ, the single greatest distributor of pornography and objectified feminism to the world, a state-run education system oriented towards breeding good little workers, the Klan and neonazis, corporations which exploit child workers in the Third World… Sheesh!

This is the apple cart you don’t want us to upset? Your solution to people spreading lies about you is to sit and do nothing? Meanwhile these “facts” start to influence the minds of our lawmen, our educators, our legislators… Way to stand up in the face of persecution. Shall we give you the keys to city to let invaders in?

I think it would be prudent not to argue for the maintenance the delicate balance of truth and lies, good and evil. After all, dualism is heretical.

You should answer the call to be counter-cultural with word and with deed and not with mincing “Gee, wouldn’t it be better to just lay down and play dead?” There are plenty of things you can say and do to make the world a better place but no one ever made a difference by only half-believing.