Day of the Dead - Is this a religious event?

[HollyDolly]

It’s common in hispanic areas like San Antonio. My ancestors were german and hungarians.
The only thing I can think of my father’s side might do is bring flowers to the graves of relatives and pray,and ask the priest to say mass for the departed.Probably the same for mom’s side too. Each culture has its own traditions in that respect.

 

[faithfully]

Brandon… My concern is not as simple as a Christmas tree. Much (obviously, not all) of the Day of the dead practice is in the invitation of the dead to come and visit. Christmas trees are not part of worship or engaging with the dead.

Practicing Catholics do NOT or should not try to conjure spirits, even our loved ones. You never know what you’re really inviting into your space… Inviting is a key word.

Everything else, honoring, praying for or loved ones…ect… seems perfectly fine. It’s just that one little piece…

So, when people start talking about alters and such… I start to wonder what they are actually engaging in. I tend to think of an alter as a place of worship of God. And God only. Mostly, I was concerned about the secular practice of this event, at public schools no less. Many clearly don’t know what the heck they are doing, or talking about. They seem to be in for a cool, cultural ride with little thought given to the entire event.

 

[GEddie]

Brandon… My concern is not as simple as a Christmas tree. Much (obviously, not all) of the Day of the dead practice is in the invitation of the dead to come and visit. Christmas trees are not part of worship or engaging with the dead.

Practicing Catholics do NOT or should not try to conjure spirits, even our loved ones. You never know what you’re really inviting into your space… Inviting is a key word.

Everything else, honoring, praying for or loved ones…ect… seems perfectly fine. It’s just that one little piece…

So, when people start talking about alters and such… I start to wonder what they are actually engaging in. I tend to think of an alter as a place of worship of God. And God only. Mostly, I was concerned about the secular practice of this event, at public schools no less. Many clearly don’t know what the heck they are doing, or talking about. They seem to be in for a cool, cultural ride with little thought given to the entire event.

DOTD practices do not conjure anybody; they invite loved-ones, presently dead, to visit.

Obviously this does not occur and no-one expects it to.

It’s a symbolic belief in human afterlife.

I’d file it in my mind under “consolatory cultural customs surrounding death.” No more.

ICXC NIKA

 

[PaulDupre1]

Brandon… My concern is not as simple as a Christmas tree. Much (obviously, not all) of the Day of the dead practice is in the invitation of the dead to come and visit. Christmas trees are not part of worship or engaging with the dead.

Practicing Catholics do NOT or should not try to conjure spirits, even our loved ones. You never know what you’re really inviting into your space… Inviting is a key word.

Everything else, honoring, praying for or loved ones…ect… seems perfectly fine. It’s just that one little piece…

So, when people start talking about alters and such… I start to wonder what they are actually engaging in. I tend to think of an alter as a place of worship of God. And God only. Mostly, I was concerned about the secular practice of this event, at public schools no less. Many clearly don’t know what the heck they are doing, or talking about. They seem to be in for a cool, cultural ride with little thought given to the entire event.

They may do that in Mexico, but don’t assume that all cultures invite the dead to visit. They don’t do that in the Philippines. The Pinoy version of DOTD is very Catholic.

Paul

 

[schaeffer]

Practicing Catholics do NOT or should not try to conjure spirits, even our loved ones. You never know what you’re really inviting into your space… Inviting is a key word.

Everything else, honoring, praying for or loved ones…ect… seems perfectly fine. It’s just that one little piece…

So, when people start talking about alters and such… I start to wonder what they are actually engaging in. I tend to think of an alter as a place of worship of God. And God only. Mostly, I was concerned about the secular practice of this event, at public schools no less. Many clearly don’t know what the heck they are doing, or talking about. They seem to be in for a cool, cultural ride with little thought given to the entire event.

No conjuring, no trying to talk to spirits, no asking the dead for information etc.

The altars or ofrendas, are a place where we put the photos of our loved ones, light candles and put out food and drink that they enjoyed in life. No sacrifice, no worship.

You know how Catholics don’t pray to statues, or give the statues gifts or light candles “to” the statues? It’s like that . We love our deceased relatives and friends, and we light candles, put their food out, clean their graves and decorate with flowers to show our love for them.

I will say that we DO invite the spirits of our loved ones to join us, but it’s sort of like going to your Grandmother’s grave and telling her you miss her and maybe even ‘talk’ to her, and ask what she would do in your situation etc…you don’t really expect her to talk back, but you feel better some how anyway for having talked to her about it.

You weren’t trying to raise grandma from the dead, you were showing that you feel the relationship goes on, even beyond the grave.

 

[PaulDupre1]

No conjuring, no trying to talk to spirits, no asking the dead for information etc.

The altars or ofrendas, are a place where we put the photos of our loved ones, light candles and put out food and drink that they enjoyed in life. No sacrifice, no worship.

You know how Catholics don’t pray to statues, or give the statues gifts or light candles “to” the statues? It’s like that . We love our deceased relatives and friends, and we light candles, put their food out, clean their graves and decorate with flowers to show our love for them.

I will say that we DO invite the spirits of our loved ones to join us, but it’s sort of like going to your Grandmother’s grave and telling her you miss her and maybe even ‘talk’ to her, and ask what she would do in your situation etc…you don’t really expect her to talk back, but you feel better some how anyway for having talked to her about it.

You weren’t trying to raise grandma from the dead, you were showing that you feel the relationship goes on, even beyond the grave.

Well put! The communion of saints often seems very foreign to non-Catholics, and yet it is a very beautiful and powerful part of the Catholic/Orthodox faith. Thank you.

Paul

 

[KathleenGee]

I was just looking at this erected shrine during the month of November.

I was disturbed by the skeletons…the liturgist came up and asked me what I thought…'don’t like the skulls at all…paganism to me…had jewell like material on them…creepy…don’t seem to know about the saints in the Church who were exhumed and their bodies intact…saintly people…

She doesn’t like them either and guess they slipped in. They were there at Mass today, but we both agreed tact to take is more catechesis…and it had no connection with other Anglos or minorities in the parish…isolated in itself…

There were fruit up on the shelves…a picture of a we know nothing about…isolating…and symbols strange…know Asians, including Filipinos leave fruit for their deceased relatives…they have alot of Chinese influence in their culture…

Don’t like the skulls…does not represent Christianity…

 

[schaeffer]

In a number of European countries (mostly southern I believe) and in Mexico, it was traditional to bury the dead, or entomb them until they were reduced to bones, then clean the bones and place them in an ossuary.

This allowed the family tomb to be used over and over, the bones being kept elsewhere. Skulls and bones had a very different meaning to people who lovingly collected them, cleaned them and placed them with those of the other family members. Not macabre, though certainly a stark reminder of mortality, but a very respectful way of tending to the dead.

For those of cultures who have very different practices of burial and repose of the dead these things may seem very disturbing indeed.

there are a number of churches and chapels in Europe that contain and are even decorated with the bones of the deceased. Some of them containing the bones of tens of thousands of people.

 

[AbideWithMe]

In a number of European countries (mostly southern I believe) and in Mexico, it was traditional to bury the dead, or entomb them until they were reduced to bones, then clean the bones and place them in an ossuary.

This allowed the family tomb to be used over and over, the bones being kept elsewhere. Skulls and bones had a very different meaning to people who lovingly collected them, cleaned them and placed them with those of the other family members. Not macabre, though certainly a stark reminder of mortality, but a very respectful way of tending to the dead.

For those of cultures who have very different practices of burial and repose of the dead these things may seem very disturbing indeed.

there are a number of churches and chapels in Europe that contain and are even decorated with the bones of the deceased. Some of them containing the bones of tens of thousands of people.

That’s interesting, about ossuary use in Mexico—I didn’t know that. I did know about European chapels built of bones, or with bones prominently displayed. It still seems really strange to me, but a bit more understandable if these cultures are used to ossuaries.

 

[GEddie]

That’s interesting, about ossuary use in Mexico—I didn’t know that. I did know about European chapels built of bones, or with bones prominently displayed. It still seems really strange to me, but a bit more understandable if these cultures are used to ossuaries.

I had not heard of the use of ossuaries in Mexico.

The practice was common in Biblical Israel, however, and many of these stone cases can be seen to this day.

When bones appear above ground, IMS, it results from the reuse of graves in overfilled graveyards, or on occasion from the surfacing of caskets during flooding, as has occurred in Paris.

IMNAAHO.

 

[faithfully]

They may do that in Mexico, but don’t assume that all cultures invite the dead to visit. They don’t do that in the Philippines. The Pinoy version of DOTD is very Catholic.

Paul

Hi Paul… I didn’t mean to insinuate/or assume that everyone does any one thing in particular. I’m in California, my location has a very high population of Hispanic people who regularly travel between their CA homes and their homes in Mexico.

Quite honestly, after talking with many people it seems most don’t understand the roots of this particular holiday, Aztec goddess and such, and for the most part is celebrated as a day of remembrance.

As Schaefer stated, many apparently DO invite the dead to join them. While I understand the sentiment, I’ve not read a single thing in our Catholic Catechism to support such an invitation. Is this the same and outwardly asking for the intervention of the saints and Mary? I thought the praying was FOR the dead, to aid them perhaps out of purgatory (from a Catholic perspective) How is this different than inviting a spirit through a seance? Or through the use of a ouiji board? Perhaps there is actually no intention to communicate? I find this very interesting, and want to understand. This is a cultural barrier that I’m feeling.

I don’t mean to sound judgmental. I’m really trying to understand the scope of the practice. In the past I really haven’t given it much thought. However, I’m now learning, in the public school system, in order to be more culturally involved, the schools majorly embrace this holiday. Any class that can somehow be tied to it is… Spanish language, art, cooking, etc does something for the event. Then lots of flyers going out through the district with regards to coming to the school to look at the alters the children made, partake in the celebration. This from the same district where one can’t refer to a Holiday or Winter pageant as a Christmas pageant, so as not to be offensive to anyone who isn’t a Christian.

How is this event even remotely secular? Isn’t that an insulting insinuation?

And then I just never really thought of engaging purposefully with any spirit as a fine line topic. Perhaps I’m wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.

I appreciate the answers that are still forthcoming. I find them enlightening… Thanks.

 

[schaeffer]

It’s a holiday that has lots of aspects, so there is a religious part, a cultural part, a secular part.

It’s a holiday and in areas where it is prominent, you will see decorations sold for it, skeletons in shop windows, cartoonish style. So there is that secular aspect, sort of like elves, snowmen etc at Christmas, festive.

When it comes to religious…I think it’s a matter of how religious any particular family makes it. Because many of the people who observe Days of the Dead are Catholic or other sects of Christians, many times you will see crosses, Our Lady of Guadelupe candles, etc. in their ofrendas or at the graves.

There are cultural foods that are made for the holiday, traditions that get carried on.

The spirits of the dead are made welcome. But they are not conjured or asked to speak or interact the way that they are in a seance or use of a ouija board.

I truly don’t know where that “fine line” is.

That is something perhaps a priest could answer.

People definitely DO pray for the dead at this time.

I have noticed people making much of the decorations etc for Days of the Dead, it’s become a popular theme. I think it’s like putting up jack o lanterns and ghosts and witches at Halloween. People do it because it’s fun and festive and they usually don’t even know any of the origins of those symbols, they’ve been sort of divested of their original connections.

In many places people are all about the sugar skulls and fancy colorful images, but have little understanding what Days of the Dead are about. Again, rather like the festive Christmas decorations, but no understanding of the Nativity etc.

Personally I think it is crossing a line to have students in class make ofrendas. Too close to religious aspects for a public school.

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks for the clarification…but our liturgist also said the skulls were slipped in and they were there again still at this shrine…

 

[schaeffer]

Thanks for the clarification…but our liturgist also said the skulls were slipped in and they were there again still at this shrine…

Is this a small shrine that has been put up in a Church, or a large shrine that people come to visit?

I’m just curious in what sort of context this is occuring in. Thanks.

 

[faithfully]

There was a shrine at one of the churches I attend. The shrine was quite large about 6’ across, 5’ deep… tables reaching upwards of 3’. It seemed respectfully done. Our priest clearly stayed within the guidelines of All Saints Day as far as I could tell. Praying for our loved ones etc. I don’t recall the skulls and such on it. There were offerings. The one that stood out to me was a large bottle of beer.

This whole question came to mind when the flyers came home from the district. I like the separation of church and state. They don’t necessarily teach academic topics appropriately IMO. I do NOT want them teaching any sort of religion to my children. I don’t want to clean up that mess.

I feel like I’m understanding the invitation of the visit… Thanks

 

[KathleenGee]

There is no marriage in heaven. There is no need to eat anything…souls in purgatory can see God and He is all they seek.

There is also the acknowledgement of the incorruptibles…those whose bodies were intact after death.

The shrine is next to the Holy Family. It is about 5 feet tall with shelves with artificial fruit as well as skulls with little gemstones in them. There is a picture of a priest and another of this family.

I think the other issue is that there is no understandable explanation as to what is going on.
There is a long paper written in Spanish. I will go up and see what else if there is anything else written in English.