Day Versus Night

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pumpkinmay4ever

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Is it ok to love God and still fantasize (eg. sexually)? Especially if I can do both perfectly, mutually exclusively?
 
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I would advise you not, that’s a hard thing to get out of, and it’s a waste of time
 
What makes you say that? Can you give me a bit more context and details?

Thanks for your response 😊!!
 
pumpkinmay4ever said:
Is it ok to love God and still fantasize (eg. sexually)? Especially if I can do both perfectly, mutually exclusively?
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One will not be loving God with a mortal sin.

Baltimore Catechism
Q. 1317. What is forbidden by the ninth Commandment?
A. The ninth Commandment forbids unchaste thoughts, desires of another’s wife or husband, and all other unlawful impure thoughts and desires.
Q. 1318. Are impure thoughts and desires always sins?
A. Impure thoughts and desires are always sins, unless they displease us and we try to banish them.
Q. 1324. In what does the sixth commandment differ from the ninth, and the seventh differ from the tenth?
A. The sixth commandment differs from the ninth in this, that the sixth refers chiefly to external acts of impurity, while the ninth refers more to sins of thought against purity. The seventh commandment refers chiefly to external acts of dishonesty, while the tenth refers more to thoughts against honesty.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church
2529 The ninth commandment warns against lust or carnal concupiscence.
2530 The struggle against carnal lust involves purifying the heart and practicing temperance.
2531 Purity of heart will enable us to see God: it enables us even now to see things according to God.
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
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Persona Humana (PH) Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics , of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), 1975:
the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love” (Vatican II, Gaudium et Spes, no. 51). All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship.
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But how do you justify the fact that I seem perfectly able to do both, separately of each other (eg. When in prayer, love God 100%; and in fantasizing, be present there 100%)?
 
You simply don’t quite understand what it would mean to “love God”. Merely claiming to love God does not necessarily imply that you actually love God. To love God is to align yourself with his will; none of us are capable of doing this perfectly or by ourselves, we can only try our best to do so and ask God to help us.

If you are trying your best to love God, that would mean trying your best to align with his will, and that would mean trying your best to avoid sexual fantasizing. The degree to which you succeed at this is actually not what matters; what matters is that you are truly trying your best.

So, can you engage in sexual fantasy while also loving God? I would say yes (but your love will be imperfect), but only if you are genuinely trying not to engage in sexual fantasy.

We have so little control over ourselves, and God realizes this. All he asks is that we try our best to direct what little control we have towards him and aligning ourselves with his will as much as we can manage.
 
pumpkinmay4ever said:
But how do you justify the fact that I seem perfectly able to do both, separately of each other (eg. When in prayer, love God 100%; and in fantasizing, be present there 100%)?
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One cannot love God and willingly and knowingly disobey his commandments of grave matter. Read Catholic Encyclopedia on the topic:
Actual advertence to the sinfulness of the act is not required, virtual advertence suffices. It is not necessary that the explicit intention to offend God and break His law be present, the full and free consent of the will to an evil act suffices.
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O’Neil, A.C. (1912). Sin. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm
 
pumpkinmay4ever said:
But how do you justify the fact that I seem perfectly able to do both, separately of each other (eg. When in prayer, love God 100%; and in fantasizing, be present there 100%)?
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Love is expressed through actions and deed. When you fantasize like that you turn your back on God.

You might as well ask whether a man can love his wife and have affairs on the side. Having affairs is not consistent with loving your wife and is disgraceful to her and your marriage.
 
rdj69 said:
If you are trying your best to love God, that would mean trying your best to align with his will, and that would mean trying your best to avoid sexual fantasizing. The degree to which you succeed at this is actually not what matters; what matters is that you are truly trying your best.

So, can you engage in sexual fantasy while also loving God? I would say yes (but your love will be imperfect), but only if you are genuinely trying not to engage in sexual fantasy.
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Why? Why could it only be just one or the other if it feels I can enjoy both, separately, perfectly?
 
pumpkinmay4ever said:
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Wesrock:
When you fantasize like that you turn your back on God.
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How? If I still love God?
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Whatever you’re telling yourself, if you do such things, there is a lack of love and a disregard for God in your heart.
 
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pumpkinmay4ever said:
Why? Why could it only be just one or the other if it feels I can enjoy both, separately, perfectly?
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So you base your conception of reality on what you can enjoy?

And you believe it’s possible for you to do something perfectly?

There are clearly far deeper issues with your worldview than what’s being discussed here, and I know better than to try to change someone’s entire worldview in a single conversation.
 
pumpkinmay4ever said:
(eg. When in prayer, love God 100%; and in fantasizing, be present there 100%)?
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When you are doing that you are not loving god. Thats like saying you love your wife and then cheating on her 100%. God wants our happiness, the empty pit of pleasure is not it.
 
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I believe you, Wes, thank-you 😊!! But, if you can, I’d just like more explication as to why I can’t to both (if you may know of any reason other than the fact of guilt)?
 
To love is to will the good of the other. To will the good of God is to align yourself with his will because he is pure goodness, and so whatever he wills is the good - not only of himself, but of everyone and everything.

If you are not trying to align yourself with God’s will, you are not trying to love God.
 
You’re very welcome, I’m glad I could help; and thank you for the compliment.
 
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