Daydreaming---detaching

[leonie]

My root sin is sensuality

totustuus.com/overcome.htm

SENSUALITY - Placing my security and self-esteem in THINGS and FEELINGS.

Characteristics -

I DON’T FEEL LIKE IT: Giving primacy to my feelings; my daily activity depends upon my emotional state - whether I feel like it, whether I like the person I’m dealing with, or if I like my task. Avoiding responsibilities when I don’t feel good; accomplishing my responsibilities at the last minute just to finish them, without concern for perfection in what I do; wasting time easily; when I’m not under a deadline I only do what I like most; fleeing anything which exacts bodily mortification; complaining about everything; if I’m a little under the weather, everyone knows about it.

MATERIALISM: Always wanting what is the newest or the most up to date; never wanting to throw anything out; being attached to personal possession; excessive worry about things and about money. I NEED THINGS to feel good about oneself. I spend excessive time shopping.

LIFE OF PLEASURE: Passing easily from friendship to animosity in relating to others, as if people were disposable objects like a paper cup; the need to be liked and to feel the affection of others is a high priority. Always looking for the most comfortable, that which requires least effort, the easiest for me, and the most comfortable postures. Daydreaming, not controlling my thoughts; constructing castles in the air in which generally I play heroine or the center of attention. At meals, eating only what I like, rejecting everything else even if it hurts another or wastes food. Having to see everything, experience everything; excessive curiosity; seeking pleasures, even to the point of endangering my purity with thought or actions.

I’ve always daydreamed. Until last year, I didn’t realize that it was a form of self involvement. I’ve generally considered it a healthy escape, a form of mental exercise, and way of retaining my imagination for that book I’m going to write some day

I realize now that it is an attachment that I have because when I consider abandoning it, I am really resistant. I didn’t know that I was so comforted by daydreaming–the escapism of it, the self aggrandizing. When I think of giving up this attachment, I am really, really sad. I don’t wanna.

I’m asking God for the grace of the desire to give up daydreaming, but my heart really isn’t in it. Plus, (this is my sensual side speaking), I don’t feel like I really have that many pleasures in my life. Don’t I sound like a stubborn child?

Looking for advice on how to detach from daydreaming. Anyone else conquer this sinful tendency?

 

[Mini_gerbel]

wait… is day dreaming a sin. If you dont control the dreaming. because I like to daydream as well. I like to imagine im emporeor of Rome and I have a bunch of broskeys ( friends ) that are old, and dare I say crusty.

 

[MarieVeronica]

My root sin is sensuality

totustuus.com/overcome.htm

I’ve always daydreamed. Until last year, I didn’t realize that it was a form of self involvement. I’ve generally considered it a healthy escape, a form of mental exercise, and way of retaining my imagination for that book I’m going to write some day

I realize now that it is an attachment that I have because when I consider abandoning it, I am really resistant. I didn’t know that I was so comforted by daydreaming–the escapism of it, the self aggrandizing. When I think of giving up this attachment, I am really, really sad. I don’t wanna.

I’m asking God for the grace of the desire to give up daydreaming, but my heart really isn’t in it. Plus, (this is my sensual side speaking), I don’t feel like I really have that many pleasures in my life. Don’t I sound like a stubborn child?

Looking for advice on how to detach from daydreaming. Anyone else conquer this sinful tendency?

I wish I had advice for you, but alas… I saw myself in so much of this. I copied it… for reference sake. I think this could be a good “tool” for working on the sin of sensuality. It really hits “home”. Thank you for posting it. I will keep you in my prayers… and ask that you pray for me as well. God bless.

 

[leonie]

I wish I had advice for you, but alas… I saw myself in so much of this. I copied it… for reference sake. I think this could be a good “tool” for working on the sin of sensuality. It really hits “home”. Thank you for posting it. I will keep you in my prayers… and ask that you pray for me as well. God bless.

of course! I’ll always trade prayers.

 

[leonie]

wait… is day dreaming a sin. If you dont control the dreaming. because I like to daydream as well. I like to imagine im emporeor of Rome and I have a bunch of broskeys ( friends ) that are old, and dare I say crusty.

huh.

Well, it’s not a sin, so much as it is an attachment. It’s not meditating on the person of Christ, but self aggrandizing. It’s the opposite of humility.

but, it’s fun.

 

[jimmy]

This is an interesting thread because I see much of what is said in me. I know what you are saying about daydreaming and I have been trying to work on my tendency to daydream. I have been trying to focus more on what I am doing at the moment. I try to avoid any thoughts of the amount of time left till work ends or how much longer the drive is or what I will do later. I am trying to focus on the task at hand, whether it is praying or reading or working. I don’t think there is anything you can really do other than practice focusing your attention and rejecting meaningless thoughts as they enter your mind.

 

[Catholic08]

I didnt know that dreaming was a sin. Is planning ahead for stuff also sinful? Is thinking about something good thats going to happen soon a sin? (like getting a car starting college moving ect)

 

[leonie]

I didnt know that dreaming was a sin. Is planning ahead for stuff also sinful? Is thinking about something good thats going to happen soon a sin? (like getting a car starting college moving ect)

No, I don’t think any of it is sinful per se, but it’s a personality flaw that can block spiritual progress.

See, a sensual person enjoys being caught up in pleasurable feelings and avoids difficult things. So, if I’m spending time daydreaming about some great feat I might do in a fictional storyline, then I’m not growing Christlike.

Anticipating good things can go too far, too. I think. It’s spending time in the pleasure of anticipation instead of doing now what should be done. Plus, it’s indulging the sensual nature instead of mortifying it.

I’m still figuring this stuff out myself.

 

[petitfleur]

I fall into this to. Firs i have to pray for help and willingness second the only actions I have learned to take is to remind myself to stay in the present when I drift off9this might take some practise but if you are persistant it can happen) second is to try to find some spiritual things to think about (try the bible or rosary mysterys) like I said this can be difficult at first but persistance pays off.

 

[leonie]

I fall into this to. Firs i have to pray for help and willingness second the only actions I have learned to take is to remind myself to stay in the present when I drift off9this might take some practise but if you are persistant it can happen) second is to try to find some spiritual things to think about (try the bible or rosary mysterys) like I said this can be difficult at first but persistance pays off.

oh no, you mean I have to work at it

One problem is that I really am attached to this daydreaming. I guess I’ll have to figure out some mortification.

 

[jimmy]

I didnt know that dreaming was a sin. Is planning ahead for stuff also sinful? Is thinking about something good thats going to happen soon a sin? (like getting a car starting college moving ect)

Daydreaming is not a sin but it certainly misses the point of salvation. As Christ mentions in His sermon on the mount(Matt.6) Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

I think it is good to view life as a process whereby God makes us more like Christ. It is a process that we enter into in which we are changed. This process requires us to be patient and live life as it comes. God will take care of our needs. Each point in our lives bears some purpose. As Christ says, seek ye the kingdom of God and all else will be yours(Matt.6 again). Our job is to follow the truth now and live charitably.

 

[reen12]

I have a totally different take, on all of this.

I hold that Christianity has “sin-ified” basic human activities,
which then require a level of repression that simply is not
in the best interest of any human being.
Who speaks for God, in this?
God made us with an imagination, and a need for rest.
That’s why He created the sabbath.

I ask the following question:
What is the difference - between “day-dreaming” and
flaking out in front of the TV? With TV, we are just
watching someone else’s “day-dreaming” - only we
call this day-dreaming a ‘script,’ or a ‘play.’

The only time that day-dreaming may become a
deleterious reality, is if we day-dream - when we’re
supposed to be meeting our quotidian responsibilities.
In fact, “Walter Mitty,” is the famous day-dreamer.
And which of us has never “pictured” him/herself
in some heroic situation? It is so human.

And, believe it or not, some of the desert anchorites
indulged in the same pastime. Picturing themselves
a great homilist, greeted by the astonishment of
his listeners - at his sheer skill, and so on.

I, for one, have had *more *than enough of this constant
self-recrimination - that Christianity seems brings in it’s wake.
If God wanted us to be like angels, He would have made us angels.
King David danced before the Ark. He could not contain his joy.
Not one iota of self-conciousness present. He was lost in
his praise of God.
When Christians come to understand that - what God wants of them - is to be self-forgetful, things may improve.

The reason why so many “doorkeepers” reached sanctity,
is that they had no time to devote to self-improvement.
They didn’t spend their time, reading books on mystical theology.
They were too busy - completing the day’s tasks,
wholly self-forgetful.

“Whole” fits, here. To be holy, is to be whole.
Where the human nature that God endowed us with
is fully appreciated. To feel the sun, warm on your face.
To hear running waters. To run, just to run - as a toddler does.
To look to heaven, and thank God for making us human -
more than the angels, in some ways.

An angel cannot feel the breeze on his face, or the warmth
of the sun - so he cannot thank God for this. We can.

Meet one of the kings! of day-dreaming. Elwood P. Dowd,
in the award winning play, *Harvey. *

youtube.com/watch?v=VvfXvW2wsuQ&feature=related

reens

 

[jimmy]

I have a totally different take, on all of this.

I hold that Christianity has “sin-ified” basic human activities,
which then require a level of repression that simply is not
in the best interest of any human being.
Who speaks for God, in this?
God made us with an imagination, and a need for rest.
That’s why He created the sabbath.

I ask the following question:
What is the difference - between “day-dreaming” and
flaking out in front of the TV? With TV, we are just
watching someone else’s “day-dreaming” - only we
call this day-dreaming a ‘script,’ or a ‘play.’

The only time that day-dreaming may become a
deleterious reality, is if we day-dream - when we’re
supposed to be meeting our quotidian responsibilities.
In fact, “Walter Mitty,” is the famous day-dreamer.
And which of us has never “pictured” him/herself
in some heroic situation? It is so human.

And, believe it or not, some of the desert anchorites
indulged in the same pastime. Picturing themselves
a great homilist, greeted by the astonishment of
his listeners - at his sheer skill, and so on.

I, for one, have had *more *than enough of this constant
self-recrimination - that Christianity seems brings in it’s wake.
If God wanted us to be like angels, He would have made us angels.
King David danced before the Ark. He could not contain his joy.
Not one iota of self-conciousness present. He was lost in
his praise of God.
When Christians come to understand that - what God wants of them - is to be self-forgetful, things may improve.

The reason why so many “doorkeepers” reached sanctity,
is that they had no time to devote to self-improvement.
They didn’t spend their time, reading books on mystical theology.
They were too busy - completing the day’s tasks,
wholly self-forgetful.

“Whole” fits, here. To be holy, is to be whole.
Where the human nature that God endowed us with
is fully appreciated. To feel the sun, warm on your face.
To hear running waters. To run, just to run - as a toddler does.
To look to heaven, and thank God for making us human -
more than the angels, in some ways.

An angel cannot feel the breeze on his face, or the warmth
of the sun - so he cannot thank God for this. We can.

reens

Self-forgetfulness and day-dreaming are contradictory terms.

The monks did not accept day-dreaming. Some may have day-dreamed but they conquered it because daydreaming is ultimately self-centered.

Day-dreaming distracts people from actually living their lives, from actually making contact with people, from actually praising God. It is deleterious in its very nature.

 

[reen12]

quote: jimmy

It is deleterious in its very nature.

No, Jimmy. Day-dreaming is not deleterious “in its very nature.”

Ask Isaac Newton, Eli Whitney, Einstein,
Michelangelo or Dovstoyevsky.

In fact, you make my point for me.

Christianity may become a “strait-jacket” -that distorts human nature - not improves same.
To say that day-dreaming is always deleterious
i.e., …“in nature…” is truly a distortion of the reality.

Wisdom consists in rarely saying “always” or “never.”
Very few realities fit these categorical markers.

With experience, comes the knowledge that very few things
in life fit “always,” “never.”

As to the desert dwellers, some anchorites were off the wall.

Simon Stylities would have been hauled off
to a psych facility, in our day.
If you’ve not read John Climacus, you may
wish to take a dekko at his work.
[aka John of the Ladder.]

quote: jimmy

Day-dreaming distracts people from actually living their lives…

I did make a similar point, in my post, Jimmy.

quote: reen

The only time that day-dreaming may become a

deleterious reality, is if we day-dream - when we’re
supposed to be meeting our quotidian responsibilities.

quote: jimmy

Day-dreaming distracts people…from actually making contact with people…

Tell that to St. Anthony of the Desert, not me.

“Hey! You, up there. Yes, you! - Stylites.”
“You’re neglecting happy togetherness…Come down here, at once.”

Of course, if St. Anthony of the Desert had given up all of this
precious “self-abnegation,” Hieronymous Bosch would have been left out in the cold -
subject-wise. :coffeeread:

We would have never have had his nightmarish work,
The Temptation of St. Anthony.

A sense of humor requires a sense of blessed proportion.
I wonder if God grinned, when He saw His well-loved son, Simon, perched a-high, on his pillar?

"Simon, My son. You’ve got the right idea - but it’s
the wrong venue."

reen12

 

[leonie]

Hi Reen:wave:

I would have completely agreed with you a couple of years ago. Now, I see that my daydreaming is unChristlike.

Christ who is infinite humbled himself.

Daydreaming exalts self.

Christ became a servant, living among men. When he did go into solitude, it was to pray.

Daydreaming is solitary, the focus on self.

It’s not imagination that is wrong–no, no, no. It’s the focus of the imagination in this case. If I were exercising my imagination in meditation or even in developing an idea, it would be good use of this gift. But, to use it as an escapism tool is a wrong use of a good thing.

Even if I were a writer developing a storyline, I wouldn’t be casting myself as the star. No, instead I would be focusing on the plot and character development.

This is becoming more clear to me as we are discussing this. I’m very grateful. I can see that daydreaming is a sign of spiritual immaturity. sigh.

I think not only must I mortify this habit, but I must redirect my imagination. Maybe I will finally start on that book I want to write someday. It will be hard to detach from the enjoyment of daydreaming.

 

[reen12]

Hi, leonie:wave:

I want you to know that I do understand what you are saying.
I disagree, but the fundamental here is the courtesy that you’ve
shown to me - which is, and will remain, the mark of one who
closely follows Jesus. And I thank you for that courtesy.

A blessed Easter to you, leonie.

reens :tiphat:

 

[jimmy]

quote: jimmy

No, Jimmy. Day-dreaming is not deleterious “in its very nature.”

Ask Isaac Newton, Eli Whitney, Einstein,
Michelangelo or Dovstoyevsky.

In fact, you make my point for me.

Christianity may become a “strait-jacket” -that distorts human nature - not improves same.
To say that day-dreaming is always deleterious
i.e., …“in nature…” is truly a distortion of the reality.

Wisdom consists in rarely saying “always” or “never.”
Very few realities fit these categorical markers.

With experience, comes the knowledge that very few things
in life fit “always,” “never.”

As to the desert dwellers, some anchorites were off the wall.

Simon Stylities would have been hauled off
to a psych facility, in our day.
If you’ve not read John Climacus, you may
wish to take a dekko at his work.
[aka John of the Ladder.]

quote: jimmy

I did make a similar point, in my post, Jimmy.

quote: reen

quote: jimmy

Tell that to St. Anthony of the Desert, not me.

“Hey! You, up there. Yes, you! - Stylites.”
“You’re neglecting happy togetherness…Come down here, at once.”

Of course, if St. Anthony of the Desert had given up all of this
precious “self-abnegation,” Hieronymous Bosch would have been left out in the cold -
subject-wise. :coffeeread:

We would have never have had his nightmarish work,
The Temptation of St. Anthony.

A sense of humor requires a sense of blessed proportion.
I wonder if God grinned, when He saw His well-loved son, Simon, perched a-high, on his pillar?

"Simon, My son. You’ve got the right idea - but it’s
the wrong venue."

reen12

Day dreaming is a distraction from reality. It is not reality and consequently it is not good.

St. Antony and St. Simeon weren’t day dreamers. Please show in their letters where they actually support day dreaming. The monastics preached against day dreaming because it is selfcentered. St. Simeon’s standing on a pliar has nothing to do with day dreaming. It is actually contrary to it because the whole point of the actions of St. Simeon is for the purpose of detachment from what is created. Day dreaming is focused wholely on what is created and making it the center of attention. The same can be said of saint Antony.

Christian spirituality is about freeing the self from attachment to what is created so that we can freely love. I think that your spirituality is tending toward a straight jacket because it avoids that self centeredness needs to be mortified.

It is irrelevant whether the extremes, always and never are true.

 

[Catholic08]

Is it ok to set yearly goals?

 

[mike7795]

Hi Reen:wave:

I would have completely agreed with you a couple of years ago. Now, I see that my daydreaming is unChristlike.

Christ who is infinite humbled himself.

Daydreaming exalts self.

Christ became a servant, living among men. When he did go into solitude, it was to pray.

Daydreaming is solitary, the focus on self.

It’s not imagination that is wrong–no, no, no. It’s the focus of the imagination in this case. If I were exercising my imagination in meditation or even in developing an idea, it would be good use of this gift. But, to use it as an escapism tool is a wrong use of a good thing.

Even if I were a writer developing a storyline, I wouldn’t be casting myself as the star. No, instead I would be focusing on the plot and character development.

This is becoming more clear to me as we are discussing this. I’m very grateful. I can see that daydreaming is a sign of spiritual immaturity. sigh.

I think not only must I mortify this habit, but I must redirect my imagination. Maybe I will finally start on that book I want to write someday. It will be hard to detach from the enjoyment of daydreaming.

Can you clarify what you mean by daydreaming? Is it the imagination running wild, or is it a state during which you’re thinking of absolutely nothing?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[reen12]

quote: jimmy

Day dreaming is a distraction from reality. It is not reality and consequently it is not good.

St. Antony and St. Simeon weren’t day dreamers. Please show in their letters where they actually support day dreaming. The monastics preached against day dreaming because it is selfcentered. St. Simeon’s standing on a pliar has nothing to do with day dreaming. It is actually contrary to it because the whole point of the actions of St. Simeon is for the purpose of detachment from what is created. Day dreaming is focused wholely on what is created and making it the center of attention. The same can be said of saint Antony.

Christian spirituality is about freeing the self from attachment to what is created so that we can freely love. I think that your spirituality is tending toward a straight jacket because it avoids that self centeredness needs to be mortified.

It is irrelevant whether the extremes, always and never are true.

Goodness, gracious.
All sounds pretty stark, to me. :coffeeread:
No wiggle room, for the human heart.

reen