Daydreaming---detaching

[mike7795]

Day dreaming is a distraction from reality. It is not reality and consequently it is not good.

St. Antony and St. Simeon weren’t day dreamers. Please show in their letters where they actually support day dreaming. The monastics preached against day dreaming because it is selfcentered. St. Simeon’s standing on a pliar has nothing to do with day dreaming. It is actually contrary to it because the whole point of the actions of St. Simeon is for the purpose of detachment from what is created. Day dreaming is focused wholely on what is created and making it the center of attention. The same can be said of saint Antony.

Christian spirituality is about freeing the self from attachment to what is created so that we can freely love. I think that your spirituality is tending toward a straight jacket because it avoids that self centeredness needs to be mortified.

It is irrelevant whether the extremes, always and never are true.

What is Reality? Is it that which is perceived by the senses? If that’s your definition, St. John of the Cross would disagree.

Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. Where else should we look for it if not within ourselves? Is this type of self-centeredness also “wrong?”

Thanks,
Mike

 

[reen12]

quote:mike7795

Where else should we look for it if not within ourselves? Is this type of self-centeredness also “wrong?”

Obviously not.

I forefend from further observation, in the interests of
charity. :juggle:

reen12

 

[leonie]

Can you clarify what you mean by daydreaming? Is it the imagination running wild, or is it a state during which you’re thinking of absolutely nothing?

Thanks,
Mike

Daydreaming is imagination directed to creating fictious scenarios, not random thoughtfulness or thinking nothing.

 

[mike7795]

Daydreaming is imagination directed to creating fictious scenarios, not random thoughtfulness or thinking nothing.

Thank you sir. It appears that I have not been daydreaming all these years then. I have been thinking nothing.

Mike

 

[leonie]

Is it ok to set yearly goals?

It think it is not only okay, but a worthy pursuit.

The only way I could think it would relate to the topic is imagining that you hit a goal and the world falls down at your feet.

For example, if I set a goal to redecorate my living room. I imagine a big party where everyone come ins and admires my work. Then, I imagine a tv producer stopping by and telling me I should have a my own tv show about decorating.

That would be self indulgent daydreaming.

 

[jimmy]

What is Reality? Is it that which is perceived by the senses? If that’s your definition, St. John of the Cross would disagree.

Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. Where else should we look for it if not within ourselves? Is this type of self-centeredness also “wrong?”

Thanks,
Mike

The truth and God are not found by simply looking inward. Christian spirituality is about a relationship. It is about a relationship with God and with neighbor. Trinitarian theology is based on the idea that God exists as communion of persons. Our spirituality is meant to bring us into communion with God and with man. What matters is love of neighbor and love of God. If your self examination leads you to love others and to love God that is one thing but when your daydreaming is simply about giving yourself attention it is a waste of time.

 

[jimmy]

quote: jimmy

Goodness, gracious.
All sounds pretty stark, to me. :coffeeread:
No wiggle room, for the human heart.

reen

Christianity is what it is. It is about a relationship, not about self improvement or anything other than communion with God. That is not found in self centeredness.

 

[reen12]

quote: jimmy

Christianity is what it is.

:coffeeread:

quote: jimmy

It is about a relationship, not about self improvement or anything other than communion with God. That is not found
in self centeredness.

OK. Anything else?

reens

 

[reen12]

quote: jimmy

Christianity is what it is.

:coffeeread: Right.It’s good to make these things clear.

quote: jimmy

It is about a relationship, not about self improvement or anything other than communion with God. That is not found in self centeredness.

OK. If that works for you.

reen

 

[reen12]

:juggle:

I had no idea that all of this was so complicated.

“Let the little children come unto Me, for such is
the Kingdom of heaven.”

Now I have to learn a whole, new thing.
A spiritual version of: “Life is real, and life is earnest.”

Does this mean that I can’t juggle?

reen

 

[mike7795]

The truth and God are not found by simply looking inward.

And you speak this from experience, of course?

For thousands of years, since the beginning of time, man has spent his entire life looking outward, and yet NOTHING has changed. If religion encourages us to look outside of ourselves for an answer, then, according to human history, it has failed us miserably. The same problems exist now that existed thousands of years ago, but yet we continue to take the same approach. What is that quote? “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

If God is, then he must have always been. If the ONLY thing I can be ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY sure of, it is that I am, that I exist. Where else should I start to look for God and Truth? Where else CAN I start to look for God and Truth besides that which I KNOW to exist? Even the Catholic mystics tell us this much: To abandon the senses. That means giving up everything, which leaves me only with myself.

“Be still and know that I AM God.” What more needs to be said?

 

[elt1956]

The truth and God are not found by simply looking inward. Christian spirituality is about a relationship. It is about a relationship with God and with neighbor. Trinitarian theology is based on the idea that God exists as communion of persons. Our spirituality is meant to bring us into communion with God and with man. What matters is love of neighbor and love of God. If your self examination leads you to love others and to love God that is one thing but when your daydreaming is simply about giving yourself attention it is a waste of time.

What is the difference between looking inward and self-examination? What about looking inward to improve one’s relationship with God and others and self-understanding. Explain please. Peace.

 

[sawman]

The desire to be rid of imperfections is commendable. The way of perfection is difficult. It is full of effort,daily dying to self,denying one’s simplest and in a lot of cases,innocent indulgences.Beware of asking what you think you desire! Sirach tells us to be ready to suffer in our pursuit of God,he was not kidding.To lose an attachment to daydreaming might require a price one is not quite willing to pay.Do not hold back from loving God,but it dosen’t hurt to count the cost either.The reward we all know,is worth the cost,but attempting something beyond our Grace for now can be discouraging.

 

[leonie]

The desire to be rid of imperfections is commendable. The way of perfection is difficult. It is full of effort,daily dying to self,denying one’s simplest and in a lot of cases,innocent indulgences.Beware of asking what you think you desire! Sirach tells us to be ready to suffer in our pursuit of God,he was not kidding.To lose an attachment to daydreaming might require a price one is not quite willing to pay.Do not hold back from loving God,but it dosen’t hurt to count the cost either.The reward we all know,is worth the cost,but attempting something beyond our Grace for now can be discouraging.

I want to want to detach from daydreaming, but I really enjoy it. I’m definitely very attached.

I guess knowing my attachments is the first step…

You know how St. Augustine prayed, “Lord, give me chastity, but not yet?”

sort of like that.

 

[sawman]

I want to want to detach from daydreaming, but I really enjoy it. I’m definitely very attached.

I guess knowing my attachments is the first step…

You know how St. Augustine prayed, “Lord, give me chastity, but not yet?”

sort of like that.

Maybe this the Holy Spirit’s way of making you aware of this area in your life.Perhaps the the begining of your inclination to git-r-done.

 

[Joyful_1]

And you speak this from experience, of course?

For thousands of years, since the beginning of time, man has spent his entire life looking outward, and yet NOTHING has changed. If religion encourages us to look outside of ourselves for an answer, then, according to human history, it has failed us miserably. The same problems exist now that existed thousands of years ago, but yet we continue to take the same approach. What is that quote? “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

If God is, then he must have always been. If the ONLY thing I can be ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY sure of, it is that I am, that I exist. Where else should I start to look for God and Truth? Where else CAN I start to look for God and Truth besides that which I KNOW to exist? Even the Catholic mystics tell us this much: To abandon the senses. That means giving up everything, which leaves me only with myself.
“Be still and know that I AM God.” What more needs to be said?

Indeed, we must be still and know that He is God. Meditation on sacred mysteries is a good thing. When we meditate ourselves as exalted, it is a bad thing.

In reference to the emboldened part - I would say that abandoning the senses involves giving up everything *including *myself. If we want to find God, we must root everything out of us that is not Him so that we may be transformed into the image of Christ. It is a disapearance of self and an apearance of Christ in us that turns us into saints.

We must give up everything leaving only God. Then we will be saints.

God Bless,
Joyful_1

 

[mike7795]

Indeed, we must be still and know that He is God. Meditation on sacred mysteries is a good thing. When we meditate ourselves as exalted, it is a bad thing.

In reference to the emboldened part - I would say that abandoning the senses involves giving up everything *including *myself. If we want to find God, we must root everything out of us that is not Him so that we may be transformed into the image of Christ. It is a disapearance of self and an apearance of Christ in us that turns us into saints.

We must give up everything leaving only God. Then we will be saints.

God Bless,
Joyful_1

Ahh, Joyful!! Your post is a breath of fresh air!

I completely agree with you. Only, as I’m sure you know, giving up everything is a most difficult task (at least initially), therefore, as you suggest, holding one thought, whether it be the mysteries or the feeling that I am (as noted in the Cloud of Unknowing/Book of Privy Counseling), is one means to eradicate all thought. It is how we empty ourselves that God may fill us.

It is like using one thorn to dislodge another that is stuck in our finger, and then, when the thorn is dislodged, both are discarded.

Thanks for your post,
Mike

 

[bcuster]

In psycho-babble daydreaming can be a form of dissociation. Everybody uses forms of distraction to cope with life’s many stressors. Some distractions are healthier than others. Athletics, crocheting, reading, music, (the list goes on) are some of the distractions we use to help balance our stressful lives. Some distractions/dissociations are healthier than others. Here is a rule of thumb: Does this activity help me to have stronger, more balanced relationships with others? Does this activity promote health in mind, body, and spirit? Does this activity help me in my relationship with God? If no. Replace it with an activity that will.

Daydreaming: We all do it. Sometimes we are driving somewhere and realize that we have arrived and don’t remember every stage of the journey. We were daydreaming. Maybe not the best state to operate a motor vehicle in, but we all do it occasionally.

We are preparing for an interview. We daydream, rehearse the interview in our minds. This can be helpful.

Daydreaming: Becoming so involved in the emotions, feelings, and sensations brought about by daydreaming that we choose not to reach out to others or go places or exercise… This is not healthy. Depending on the subject matter it may be sinful.

I had a real problem with daydreaming. II was addicted to it. I used a modified 12-step program to help me overcome it. I chose different activities to engage in during the times I would usually zone out. I read scripture, kept a prayer journal, prayed the Rosary, or the chaplet of Divine Mercy. I got involved is parish activities. I taught religious education. I joined a woman’s prayer group. I took things one day at a time. For a whole year I chose only to read spiritual readings. I chose not to watch certain movies or tv shows that used to jump start my day dreaming. With God’s help I have overcome the unhealthy habit of day dreaming. I use that time instead to pray of souls and be mindful about living my life. Instead of dreaming about things, I went back to college and got my Masters in Counseling. I I still drive places and get caught up with thinking about this or that, but I don’t indulge it. I turn on the radio and listen to Catholic Answers or pray the Rosary or Chaplet.

 

[leonie]

I had a real problem with daydreaming. II was addicted to it. I used a modified 12-step program to help me overcome it. I chose different activities to engage in during the times I would usually zone out. I read scripture, kept a prayer journal, prayed the Rosary, or the chaplet of Divine Mercy. I got involved is parish activities. I taught religious education. I joined a woman’s prayer group. I took things one day at a time. For a whole year I chose only to read spiritual readings. I chose not to watch certain movies or tv shows that used to jump start my day dreaming. With God’s help I have overcome the unhealthy habit of day dreaming. I use that time instead to pray of souls and be mindful about living my life. Instead of dreaming about things, I went back to college and got my Masters in Counseling. I I still drive places and get caught up with thinking about this or that, but I don’t indulge it. I turn on the radio and listen to Catholic Answers or pray the Rosary or Chaplet.

Thanks for the very helpful advice. I do think I’m addicted to daydreaming and I do use it to escape from the mundaneness of life and the stress associated with life.

I can see now that it’s as much as a psychological problem as a spiritual problem. Most attachments are, aren’t they? I’ll have to read up on 12 step programs. Fr. Emmerich has a good website that I just discovered, having heard him speak recently.

12-step-review.org/

And, there are certain novels and tv show that jumpstart my daydreaming…

I am fortunate that I haven’t fallen into the habit of sexual or revengeful daydreaming. So, I don’t think it’s a sin, just a very bad attachment keeping me from God.

 

[Catholicracer]

I asked this on EWTN and here is what they said… ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=534697&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=1&Author=&Keyword=&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=6&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=