Days of Genesis

[Mike_from_NJ]

I’d agree that post 4 is probably the most reasonable. The reason that thread didn’t include explanations to the other five different orders is because the title of the thread specifically asks about the light and not the others.

That’s part of the reason why I was confused about using it in response to the more general questions I had about order in Genesis.

If it’s possible that a non-temporal explanation for the light can be provided, couldn’t it be possible that a similar explanation be provided for the other five?

But that explanation is temporal. First came light itself (perhaps the big bang emanated light), then later came the sun.

If you are curious to discuss those, I’d recommend starting a new thread.

Why would I do so? This very topic isn’t just about light in Genesis but about the order of things in Genesis with light being one example: “Genesis says the earth came before the stars.”

How am I projecting?

You claim that I’m moving goalposts when I’ve been incredibly consistent. I seem to be asking straightforward questions and the answers seem intent on not addressing them directly.

You yourself said that post 4 has the most potential, and to me it seems like a decent explanation. Perhaps you aren’t convinced by it, but you seem to be implying that since you don’t find it convincing then it doesn’t exist, and then acting like we have no response. The fact that there are multiple competing interpretations is not the same as there being no valid interpretations.

Again, and I can’t stress this enough, the repeated questions I’ve asked on this thread is asking why Genesis places things in an order that we know is factually wrong. I’m told over and over again that it’s not literal, but never as to how it’s to be interpreted in a figurative sense. The explanation for light before sun makes sense in a literal sense. This same methodology can NOT be used for explaining things like the Earth existing before the sun or all the animals existing after man but before woman.

 

[SPBlitz]

the repeated questions I’ve asked on this thread is asking why Genesis places things in an order that we know is factually wrong. I’m told over and over again that it’s not literal, but never as to how it’s to be interpreted in a figurative sense.

I will refer you to my post directly above this one, especially to the reply from DelsonJacobs.

I am not a biblical expert, I’m an engineer. If you want help with the other questions you posted, I recommend you research it - as you can see, there’s already been much discussion about them, on this forum and probably in several books.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Try this thread, especially the post by DelsonJacobs:
Genesis 1:3 - What was the light that God created? - #3 by Loving_disciple

Specifically:
“Therefore the creation story of God was orally taught and later written down as a seven-day mnemonic device that culminates in a lesson about observing the Sabbath. Obeying Torah and keeping the Sabbath was as important as attributing creation to God!”

So the Bible misrepresented God’s creation all to maintain a mnemonic device? I find that hard to believe considering mnemonic devices aren’t that hard to make. Over 30 years later I still remember King Phylum Can Order Fine Greek Spices. If true, this would mean that the order given in Genesis 1 is false in all four senses of scripture. That brings to another question I asked earlier which is “What percentage of a passage can be false and still be considered true as a whole?” This mnemonic explanation doesn’t even touch on Genesis 2, nor does DelsonJacobs cite any sources that the order in Genesis 1 was listed as such because of this need for a Sabbath remembering mnemonic device.

If you want help with the other questions you posted, I recommend you research it - as you can see, there’s already been much discussion about them, on this forum and probably in several books.

I’ve done much research, which is why the next logical step is to post questions on an apologetics forum thread specifically discussing the unusual order of events listed in Genesis and see if knowledgeable people can give reasonable explanations for that order. Luckily I’ve already done that!

 

[SPBlitz]

https://media.ascensionpress.com/2015/01/12/two-different-accounts-creation/

Sequence shows relationship in chapter two.​

Once again, sequence is not about time. Events are arranged to show truth about humanity in relationship to God, the animals, and the world. Chapter 1 told us man was created in God’s image, given dominion over the earth, and told to be fruitful and multiply. What does that mean, and how are we to understand it? By starting—not ending—with the creation of man, the author is able to show many things, among them:

• Man is made from dust. He does not evolve from something else and no other being is used to create him; there is nothing else.

Man came before plants.

• Vegetation is for man’s food and pleasure and to teach obedience—he is creature, not creator, and must learn to relate to God.
• The animals are created so man will know his special status—that he’s made for more. He doesn’t come from them, they are brought to him and he names and rules them.

Man came before animals, but somehow animals came before woman.

• Man is only complete when God brings from his body another, the woman. Side by side, they will not only rule, but fill the earth. Together they are in God’s image: male and female; ruling the earth; fruitful. They live in harmony with creation, with each other, and with God.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Thanks for the link. It looks interesting. I’ll pore over it tomorrow and let you know what I think.

 

[EndTimes]

In Genesis 1:

• The Earth was created before the sun.
• Plants flowered and grew before the sun existed.
• Flying creatures existed before ground creatures.

In Genesis 2:

• Man came before plants.
• Man came before animals, but somehow animals came before woman.

If all you choose to do is to see and talk about nothing more than undotted i’s .
You’ll never come to have the necessary Faith by which to See…

Rather, First get to know as much as you can about Jesus, Messiah - Himself.

_

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Sorry for the delay! I’ve been busy with work, spring cleaning, and a book club (we’re doing Nothing to See Here).

So I read over your link, and I have to say my questions have been asked and answered, but for fear of being accused of moving the goalposts let me say why I don’t find the answers compelling.

I’ll start with Genesis 2. The author of the link gives a few bullet points as to why the order involving man, animals, vegetation, and woman is as it is. I don;t know your age, but it’s been a while since I was in school analyzing novels. I had a teacher who saw symbolism in everything. Eventually the students learned to stitch together why Holden Caulfield was wearing what he was wearing or doing what he was doing into a symbolic reference and you’d pass. There is a reason why there is a trope in comedy of someone mistaking something ordinary as a modern art exhibit and boasting about its deeper meaning.

I could go through all possible 24 variants of ordering the main items in Genesis 2, but I’ll give one to give the gist. Let’s pretend Genesis 2 had the order instead as Animals, Woman, Vegetation, Man.

• Animals come before humans not because they are more important than humans, but the exact opposite. Just as a king’s servant precede a king’s arrival and makes sure he is never alone, God put animals on Earth first to lay the groundwork for his greatest creatio: humans.
• Woman comes before man to show that we all start and grow in the womb and from woman we all come. Also, as stated above, while man spawns from women they are last to show they are the head of the household.
• Vegetation comes after woman because it shows woman is not complete until she learns to multiply just as the trees of the forest and the grass of the fields do.

This is on part with the symbolism pointed out in the link. I’m sure others can derive different symbolism from the same order. The link may or may not be the intended symbolism, but when the same methodology and same quality can be made with different orders it’s not very compelling.

Now Genesis 1, the author does a thing I’ve seen other apologists do which is to treat the six days not as a series of six events but as two groupings of events in three “day” chunks. This certainly feels like a cheat, and again if it can’t even get the order of the events within each chunk close to right then we have unnecessary false events that don’t add to the story but increase the doubt of the inspiration for these writings.

 

[Carmel]

Faith is above reason. For our proud scientific age this is a hard pill to swallow.
Revelation Ch 21 v 5,6 says " Behold, I make all things new. It is done, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end .
Rev… 21, 22-25 "And I saw no temple therin. For the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb
are the temple therof. And the city has no need of the sun or the moon to shine upon it. For the glory of God lights it up and the Lamb is the lamp therof. And the nations shall walk by the light therof, and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory and honor into it. And its gates shall not be shut by day ; for there shall be
no night there. "
Anyone who struggles with the biblical description of creation will likely also struggle with the description of the Heavenly Jerusalem

 

[EndTimes]

Anyone who struggles with the biblical description of creation will likely also struggle with the description of the Heavenly Jerusalem

Any seeker should start with getting to know Jesus - as best as they can - before asking questions.