De-Conversion?

[honeysuckle]

No, it is not incorrect. What I described is the norm.

 

[JRKH]

Yes, we’ve checked with the Parish Priest. The old crying room has stacked chairs stored in it now, which they won’t move. We were told to either ignore the stares, or sit up the back to the side (they’d have some chairs put aside for us). The staring thing is just that. A child fussing or playing up and people "tch"ing or turning around to give you a “Can’t you control your child?” look.

The different Parish idea is a good one, which to be honest we haven’t tried. When we converted, it was expected that we’d keep going to that Parish. It was explicitly said.

The incompatability with family is a practical one, not a theological one. Most prot churches nowdays have creches, etc, and are set up for children to be welcome from birth all the way through. This Parish really only welcomes children above 4 or 5 years. We’re told to go separately to Mass, so one of us could look after the children. We have three under 5.

There’s a huge gap between the belief in having children (very encouraged) and them actually being children ie moving or making a noise after they are born!!!

Please don’t leave the church on account of something like this. I have never been to a Sunday mass that didn’t have children fussing at it. ( I’ve even refered to them as the “Children’s extemporanious Screeching Choir”) Sure there are people who get agitated about it, but it is far better to take your children to mass with you than to leave them at home. Mass should be a family thing.

If this parish doesn’t welcome your children, I suggest finding another parish. It is true that you are expected to attend the geographic parish to which you belong, but if the choice is switching parishes or switching denominations there just isn’t any question. Switch Parishes.

Peace
James

 

[kage_ar]

Find another Parish or stay where you are and let them learn to welcome children.

Could you really leave Jesus, body blood soul and divinity because someone glared?

 

[lukewarm]

James, switching parishes won’t help I have never been to a Catholic Church where children weren’t treated as an annoyance during Mass. Hence why when you go to Mass you see a bunch of people over 60 and little else, all the folks with families have been made to feel unwelcome so they stay home. I don’t think switching Parishes helps the OP out unless that Parish has a cry room.

 

[Syele]

No, it is not incorrect. What I described is the norm.

So my 33 years in protestant churches mean nothing cause you say so? Have you any sources to back your claim?

 

[honeysuckle]

I must be truly touched by God. In all of the dozens and dozens of churches I’ve visited over my lifetime, I have never attend a Protestant church where it was the norm to break in the middle of the service and separate the children. What a miracle, since most Protestant churches do this.

Sure, some churches may, no way is it the norm.

 

[Syele]

I must be truly touched by God. In all of the dozens and dozens of churches I’ve visited over my lifetime, I have never attend a Protestant church where it was the norm to break in the middle of the service and separate the children. What a miracle, since most Protestant churches do this.

Sure, some churches may, no way is it the norm.

Well in 33 years of weekly (and sometimes bi-weekly) church attendance I have encountered ONE church that did not, and the members complained. Children’s dismissal is generally right after Communion. Believe what you like, but if you want to make a thread and show some proof, start a new thread. You arent even able to show that it to deny children sacraments.

 

[honeysuckle]

Well in 33 years of weekly (and sometimes bi-weekly) church attendance I have encountered ONE church that did not, and the members complained. Children’s dismissal is generally right after Communion. Believe what you like, but if you want to make a thread and show some proof, start a new thread. You arent even able to show that it to deny children sacraments.

I live in the Midwest of the US. Maybe you live somewhere else. I don’t have to “believe what I like”, I have experienced what I have and have mentioned it. Show proof? How childish and stupid. I am surprised that someone your age would be so hateful and petty. Why don’t we argue that the sky is blue? What exactly would be proof? Would you likely me to personally call every church in a 25 mile radius of my home and ask me what their child care arrangements are and then post it? Why? If my experience is that I have never seen a Protestant church interrupt their service every service (only on rare occassions when the pastor read) to separate the children isn’t good enough, who cares?

And what is this “deny children sacraments” accusation? You are twisting what I said. If it gives you pleasure to sit around and vent your anger at people on message boards, go vent at someone else. I cannot imagine a more ignorant and petty topic of conversation.

 

[Allyson]

Hello,
There are parishes that exist where families with wiggling children are always welcome. One parish I know of is Holy Family in Steubenville, OH. However, it seems that all the parishes I attended the were equally welcoming of very small and very large families. Many professors at the University there have larger families than yours and take them all together to Mass. I am sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience with your parish. My dad, the Catholic parent took me and my sister to Mass by himself from infancy onward, and no one ever seemed to care. I personally enjoy seeing small children at Mass because of the attitude of my Father who raised me to hold that children always belong at Mass.
I do have a friend who would get a little hot under the collar when a child at a parish we all attended would get very active. I subtly told him to suck it up.

It also seems that you yourself don’t like the distraction. The Liturgy is a time for worship of God, but it is also worship as a community. Children are a part of that community of worshipers, and they can only learn this by being there.

God Bless,
R.

 

[honeysuckle]

And you know, your statement that the children usually leave after communion in the service is pretty contradictory.

Baptists and Assembly of God churches DO NOT have communion every service.

 

[JRKH]

James, switching parishes won’t help I have never been to a Catholic Church where children weren’t treated as an annoyance during Mass. Hence why when you go to Mass you see a bunch of people over 60 and little else, all the folks with families have been made to feel unwelcome so they stay home. I don’t think switching Parishes helps the OP out unless that Parish has a cry room.

I go to a catholic mass every Sunday and every Sunday there are families there with Children from “newborn” on up. Yes they fuss. Yes they even screech sometimes. Yes mothers or fathers have to leave with a little one now and then. But I can tell you that those children are welcome in the church.
We now attend an EF parish, and it is exactly the same, and maybe even more so.

Finding a church with a crying room is a great suggestion though. It would allow the parent to “leave” without really missing anything.

Regardless, these folks need to stay with the Church for the Church, not for what others “think” or “glare” or whatever. They are catholic and need to make sure that there children are raised catholic. If ultimately they have to go to mass seperately and keep the children at home for a while then that is what they need to do. The important thing is to stay with the Church, Stay with the Truth and not get sidetracked by these types of transient issues.

Peace
James

 

[Cairisti]

Please try another parish.

I know at our parish we have lots of families with children. And most do not use the cry room. Yes, some without children probably complain. But I like what our priests have said. They love to hear the children at Mass. We’re a family and children are always welcomed.

(And for those who may grumble, maybe remind them that our Lord welcomed the little children in His midst, so they can too! I know, I have to remind myself of that at times. )

 

[theAuthor]

Wow, so many responses! Thanks for all the kindness and prayers, I had a day which should have been horrible but went well, so prayers are being answered, thanks folks!

We will try a different Parish (we’ve tried different Masses in the same Parish, including the Sunday morning “family” Mass). There is one not too far away that has a reputation for being better for kids. The reason we have not done that is that our Catechists told us that we should go to the same Parish as where we were Confirmed, since “that’s where you came into the Church.” So even going to a different Parish, we will still get disapproval. We get comments like, “We didn’t see you at Mass…”, Parish Bulletins dropped off, etc. So if we went to a different Parish, we’d still get those comments or assumptions would be made.

I’ll probably go to Mass by myself this Easter, and my wife is planning already to go to the Prebyterian church. Easter wouldn’t be the best time to try a 3-year old at a new Parish, or would it?

To answer some quick questions: Yes, you have to put your religion on forms here (eg having a baby). It makes a huge difference to kids’ schooling. Catholic Schools are affordable private schools for ordinary folks and we were even accused during Catechesis of converting so our kids could go to one! I was discipled by boarding in a house with priests for pete’s sake.

As for whether my wife was really converted, I believe she was. She believes in Transubstantiation, Infalibility of the Pope in matters of Faith and morals. She even prays Hail Marys. She also believes historically that the Catholic Church is the one True Church. However she also grew up in a very strictly “spiritual” AOG (extreme, you’ve got no idea! ) home with a Bible-thumping Pastor for a Dad. It’s easy to see how she could revert to what is comfortable for her. The Catholic Church is what is comfortable for me…but not with kids. And Allyson, if you were talking to me, you are right. I was first introduced to a Mass which was quiet and reverential and meditative. I still like that. It just seems incompatible with children.

lukewarm, sadly, I think you are, on the whole, correct. It’s right here:

If ultimately they have to go to mass seperately and keep the children at home for a while then that is what they need to do.

Thanks, JRKH for making lukewarm’s point for him!

Actually, you know what? Maybe I just don’t like my Parish! Can I think aloud like that without getting stoned? There are some nearby Parishes we can try, but we will get backlash, and some people will just assume that we’ve been missing Mass anyway. Anyway, will try, will post.

 

[JRKH]

We will try a different Parish (we’ve tried different Masses in the same Parish, including the Sunday morning “family” Mass). There is one not too far away that has a reputation for being better for kids. The reason we have not done that is that our Catechists told us that we should go to the same Parish as where we were Confirmed, since “that’s where you came into the Church.” So even going to a different Parish, we will still get disapproval. We get comments like, “We didn’t see you at Mass…”, Parish Bulletins dropped off, etc. So if we went to a different Parish, we’d still get those comments or assumptions would be made.

(snip)

Actually, you know what? Maybe I just don’t like my Parish! Can I think aloud like that without getting stoned? There are some nearby Parishes we can try, but we will get backlash, and some people will just assume that we’ve been missing Mass anyway. Anyway, will try, will post.

If anyone asks about why you are going to a different Parish. Just tell them.
Tell them that you feel it is improtatnt to attend mass as a family.
Tell them that you and you wife feel unwelcome because you love your children
Tell them your children are children tend to act like children. They’ll grow out of it.
Tell them that Jesus welcomed Children to Himself.
Tell them that if they would get the old stacked chairs out of the crying room there wouldn’t be a problem for you - or for others who also think that young children should be at mass with mom and dad.

If you get “judged” by others that is thier problem and not yours.

Peace
James

 

[deb1]

So my 33 years in protestant churches mean nothing cause you say so? Have you any sources to back your claim?

I’ve been to Protestant Churches and I’ve seen both honeysuckle and Syele’s examples. The bigger mega churches tend to push the kids into a nursery setting.

 

[kell0618]

Yes, we’ve checked with the Parish Priest. The old crying room has stacked chairs stored in it now, which they won’t move. We were told to either ignore the stares, or sit up the back to the side (they’d have some chairs put aside for us). The staring thing is just that. A child fussing or playing up and people "tch"ing or turning around to give you a “Can’t you control your child?” look.

The different Parish idea is a good one, which to be honest we haven’t tried. When we converted, it was expected that we’d keep going to that Parish. It was explicitly said.

The incompatability with family is a practical one, not a theological one. Most prot churches nowdays have creches, etc, and are set up for children to be welcome from birth all the way through. This Parish really only welcomes children above 4 or 5 years. We’re told to go separately to Mass, so one of us could look after the children. We have three under 5.

There’s a huge gap between the belief in having children (very encouraged) and them actually being children ie moving or making a noise after they are born!!!

The journey to eternal life is not one of practicality. You are by no means bound to the parish in which you originally joined and it is silly to think that you would be better off leaving the Church instead of simply the church. Your children will not be toddlers forever but a relationship with Jesus Christ should be. Your family is experiencing something very common and instead of leaving the Church because your children are normal children, perhaps you should ask why your new-found faith is so disposable. Your OP sounds like you are considering trading in your car for a new model.

Please go to the Parenting forum and look for threads about taking young children to Mass. Every parent who has taken children to Mass has struggled from time to time and thankfully, they did not even consider leaving the Church. I can’t help but raise in my mind the following questions:

• When our teens get mouthy do we get rid of them?
• When our spouses are moody for long periods of time, do we find another?
• When our kids lose a t-ball game, do we allow them to quit the team?
• When our homes need painting, do we sell them and find another which have been painted?
• When our cars lose the new smell do we trade them in?
• When the dog gets into something it shouldn’t, do we take them to the pound?
• When our children are noisy in church, we find a protestant faith with completely different and watered down theology with a focus on fellowship?
  Children do not learn how to behave in a vacuum. They cannot know what is expected of them in church if they do not learn from the beginning. They cannot learn how to behave in a restaurant without being taken. This is no different that getting them used to a carseat from infancy; if you take an infant on your lap until they are 2, then try to get a two-year old to sit in a carseat, it just doesn’t go very smoothly, does it?

Please, do some real soul-searching on this. You are on the brink of falling over a cliff and do not even know it. I’ll pray for your family.

Peace

 

[kell0618]

I agree with David, the Catholic Church is not at all welcoming to children actually being at Mass. My 6 year old has been going to Mass since he was a baby, he was always well behaved my daughter is a different breed and tough to control she’s only 15 months old. We all stopped going because of the unfriendliness of the Parish towards children. Then on getting to our new Parish we tried to register and never received a call back, we were told we couldn’t meet with the busy Pastor when I finnally got the secretary (why are Catholic Parish secretaries the nastiest people in the world?), and who knows if our registration card was ever even entered into the books, I have no idea if we’re even members of the Parish. I sure wasn’t going to belong to a Parish that treated us like a paycheck and little else. Frankly I don’t know how a Church can run like the Catholic Church. It has to be the most unwelcoming Church in the world (aside from an Irish Catholic in a Greek Orthodox Church).

So you leave the Church Jesus established because of Judas? Obviously, your heart wasn’t focused on Christ. Lukewarm is a good name.

Peace

 

[theistgal]

So you leave the Church Jesus established because of Judas? Obviously, your heart wasn’t focused on Christ. Lukewarm is a good name.

Peace

I think that’s rather harsh. What would you call the parishioners who made the OP feel so uncomfortable that he’d consider leaving the Church because of it?

Didn’t Our Lord make it clear that we’re responsible for each other; that we’re “our brother’s keeper”? If our brother stumbles because we put a boulder in the path ahead of him, who is the real “Judas”?

 

[lukewarm]

So you leave the Church Jesus established because of Judas? Obviously, your heart wasn’t focused on Christ. Lukewarm is a good name.

Peace

It’s comments like that that had me feel it pointless to attend the Catholic Church, I may be wrong but your tone to me makes me think you would be one of the people turning around glaring at me because my daughter is babbling or crying…

I left the Catholic Church for many resons this was just one of them…

 

[jmcrae]

We will try a different Parish (we’ve tried different Masses in the same Parish, including the Sunday morning “family” Mass). There is one not too far away that has a reputation for being better for kids. The reason we have not done that is that our Catechists told us that we should go to the same Parish as where we were Confirmed, since “that’s where you came into the Church.” So even going to a different Parish, we will still get disapproval. We get comments like, “We didn’t see you at Mass…”, Parish Bulletins dropped off, etc. So if we went to a different Parish, we’d still get those comments or assumptions would be made.

You seem to be very sensitive to other people’s opinions. Why not just do what is good for your family, without worrying about what other people think? They aren’t the ones who have to deal with the consequences of your decisions - you are.

In any case, going to a family-friendly Catholic parish is way better than going to a Protestant church, I should think.

I’ll probably go to Mass by myself this Easter, and my wife is planning already to go to the Prebyterian church. Easter wouldn’t be the best time to try a 3-year old at a new Parish, or would it?

Depends on which Mass. Probably not the Easter Vigil, since he would be the only 3 year old in the place, but at the late-morning Mass, he would probably blend right in with all the other sugar-high toddlers.