De-Conversion?

[jmcrae]

What situation is that? Being glared at and shooshed (I can’t imagine that is that big a deal because people complain about it here all the time)? Or having a Priest unwilling to meet with us and the Parish not registering us after we filled out a card?

I assure you it is true, here’s the Parish, go ahead and call… I’ve filled out two Parish registration cards, we left three messages never got a return call, when we finally reached a secretary she informed us the Parish Priest doesn’t meet with new families and we should fill out a card in the back of the Church, we did and months later… nothing. Now that isn’t my reason for leaving the CC but it didn’t help the matter.

St. John the Evangelist
845-291-4971 (if anyone ever picks up)

Just curious, what do you expect to have happen when you fill out a registration card?

At the parish where I work, the secretary copies them into a file on her computer, and then sends a membership update to the Bishop’s office.

The people themselves are responsible for picking up their own envelopes (they can register for envelopes on the registration card, or else they can pick them up separately and just put their name and address on the first envelope that they use), and as far as I can tell, the priest is never informed of new members unless he actually asks, and when he asks, he’s not thinking of going out visiting (he has way too much work to do, to be able to do that) but just to be kept updated on the numbers to expect at Mass.

 

[theAuthor]

Thanks JC and lukewarm for your understanding.

I think something that I have struggled with is the concept of suffering. In some Christian circles, suffering can be seen as a badge of honour, or a good work. But if you’re suffering from depression, you’re already suffering. Just continuing on and trying your best to serve others I think is the best you can do. It can be a matter of struggling to stay alive at times. So part of what I have been thinking about is ditching theologies rooted in suffering (eg Imitation of Christ), because they tend to make it last longer and go deeper. It takes a concerted effort to be upbeat, so I’ve been trying to feed my mind good stuff as much as I can, and not condemn myself for failing. Always trusting that God knows my intentions.

Pong, what is your point? It seems you have a problem with me posting on this board. If I was seeking approval and support, what would be your problem with that? It seems though as though you are “keeping account of wrongs.” And then trying to bring them to light, to what? Shame me? I cannot see any good intention there, and I absolutely hate lies like this:

and for that, he has my prayers.

I have no such thing. You meant no good intent by that post. And to me, when people use expressions like that (when they don’t mean it) it borders on blasphemy.

Thanks to all the people with helpful advice. I also learned tons about forums today. The other forums I belong to are friendlier than some of the junk I’ve copped today. It will have to be a new skill for me to listen to those people who mean me well, and ignore those who just want to sit on their high horses and judge.

Oh and as for thinking I know more about theology than your average Joe, that’s pretty true. Same with just about anyone here (ie I think we are probably a well-informed group, compared to those who *don’t talk *about such things). If you don’t believe me, start asking some fellow parishoners some questions. Simple ones, out of the Family Catechism. You might be surprised by the answers you get…and blank stares. And that is from people who attend Mass. Most don’t, remember? One of the instructors in RCIA told us the Devil is not a real being, for instance. All I know is I get asked a lot of questions, as in “Dave will know.” I’m not theologically trained, but I understand why different denominations believe what they do, why they interpret the Bible different ways, etc. And especially the Catholic reasoning for most things. I have been interested in it my whole life. So I’d expect that I might have learned a thing or two that people with no interest in theolgy whatsoever might not know. Just as if I was into restoring old cars, doing mathematics, anything.

Maybe it is part of the culture of this forum that I have to say, “Oh, I’m just a simple lay-person. I’ve got no right to think for myself. Oh, look at me, I’m so humble.” Can anyone else see the irony there? Humility is not about shrinking, and being bowing and scraping, it is about seeing the truth of who you really are, IMO.

 

[theAuthor]

Just curious, what do you expect to have happen when you fill out a registration card?

At the parish where I work, the secretary copies them into a file on her computer, and then sends a membership update to the Bishop’s office.

I think lukewarm has made it pretty clear. Sorry to speak* for *you lukewarm, but they obviously want to be welcomed into the Parish and made to feel important. It is a basic human need, to feel like people care.

Obviously it depends on the Parish, but I know one priest who they call “the moth.” ie If your porch light is on, he’ll be on your doorstep. Another priest I asked why he didn’t have dinner with families each night (who would be happy to cook for him to have the Priest for a visit), and he said most people don’t want that, and he didn’t want to impose, but he’d go if invited.

Being a diocesan priest is a full-time vocation. They don’t have to do 9 to 5 jobs. I fail to see how they could fail to meet up with someone who really wanted to. I had to answer that, because the pretext of your post jmcrae, I’m sorry, reads a bit like you don’t think lukewarm is worth the priest’s time, which he is. Reread your post and ask yourself if you’d feel like a number if someone said that to you.

 

[jmcrae]

I think lukewarm has made it pretty clear. Sorry to speak* for *you lukewarm, but they obviously want to be welcomed into the Parish and made to feel important. It is a basic human need, to feel like people care.

So, how does one go about doing that? I honestly don’t know what he wants. For myself, I think I’d be a little freaked out if my priest just suddenly showed up at my house.

Reread your post and ask yourself if you’d feel like a number if someone said that to you.

Look, when I go to Mass, nobody goes out of their way to say hello to me. Not even my boss, who is the priest. I have spoken to my boss a total of three times since I was hired, and all three times it was because he wanted me to do something over and above my normal job.

If I wanted to, I could have myself a pity party. But I work for God, and I’m at Mass for God. What other people do or don’t do is up to them. If they don’t notice me or don’t want to speak to me, I don’t see how whinging about it would improve the situation.

Being a diocesan priest is a full-time vocation.

Yes, it is. He hasn’t got very much in the way of spare time, either - if he’s not interviewing someone for a wedding or baptism, or for whatever other reason, he’s in either a parish or diocescan meeting, or else he’s saying Mass, or hearing Confessions, etc. Or, he may be in his room, saying his prayers. (He has to pray for five hours each day, as of course I’m sure you already know.)

 

[theAuthor]

Oh, OK, I can see where you are both coming from.

Some people (like myself) prefer their Christian walk to involve a lot of love and warmth with other people. I believe that is what Christ meant when he said, “By this shall people know that ye are my disciples - from the love you bear one another.” And it has certainly been my experience both in some AOG churches, and defintitely my “old Parish”, that that love has been there.

That’s not to say that I think you are unloving. You are probably quite used to turning up to Mass, and it being a solitary affair. We tend to like what we are used to, so you probably want to continue like that.

For us though: ie My wife, me, probably lukewarm, to go to Mass/ Church and not have a sense of love and warmth from our brothers and sisters, well, …it just leaves us cold. And for a Catholic, the priest has a special place. He’s kind of like the patriarch. Do you know what I mean? So, for some people attention from the priest is important. That’d include me, and we’ve been blessed enough to be visited numerous times.

My father-in-law, no matter the size of the church service, will make himself known to the pastor after the service.

I read once that Christianity is not a solitary activity. You know, horizontal and vertical relationship, etc. I have been encouraged by those who know me, to get involved in a Community, rather than normal diocesan life, because I am that sort of person. That was the kind of Catholicsm that attracted me. It was a bit of a shock to attend Mass and not talk to anyone! I need fellowship once I get over initial shyness.

And actually I didn’t know it was specifically 5 hours that a priest has to pray. It’s interesting though. Fr M used to get up very early and adore the Blessed Sacrament (although I didn’t know that was what he was doing back then, even though he encouraged me to do that too). Halcyon days.

Jesus is present in a very real and special way in the Eucharist, but God is everywhere. We agree on that, right? Well my wife tomorrow will technically sin by not attendig Mass for Good Friday. But instead she will be at a church with other Christians singing praises to God and fellowshipping with other believers. “Neglect not meeting together as some of you are in the habit of doing.” I don’t believe that God is going to smite her for making the effort to praise Him and meet with and experience and share love with other Christians who aren’t Catholic.

This is where people on this board will angry. “It’s a Holy day of obligation. Not attending Mass is a mortal sin…” But the Jesus I know through the Bible says that the sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath. It’d be so easy to get caught up in rules and miss the point of Christianity: love. (Which to me is kindness).

 

[thomasf]

You went through all this trouble to become catholic. Made a big deal about how fast you needed to get into the church to receive the eucharist. Now less than a year you can’t be bothered to even attend mass, let alone receive the eucharist. And you’ve conveniently come up with lots of excuses and faulty reasoning for doing so.

Catholics must attend mass on sundays. That’s an obligation under penalty of mortal sin. That cannot be negotiated. You became catholic, made a big deal out of being catholic even before confirmation, and now you don’t want to be catholic?

I’m sorry you don’t ‘feel’ right about attending mass. But I can’t help but think your motives for coming into the church weren’t right from the beginning, so there is no wonder that your experience now doesn’t fit your ‘feelings’.

Here’s a thought. You complain constantly about how other people don’t talk to you and make you ‘feel’ warm and welcomed. What do you do to change that? Do you speak to others in your church? Do you try to make yourself known to the parish and the congregation? It’s a two way street you know, and you’re going to have to make an effort as well.

I think in the end you’re just going to jump off the bandwagon and go somewhere that makes you ‘feel’ good, and come up with a few lines of scripture and faulty reasoning to justify that move. No matter what anyone says. And it won’t be your fault at all.

If you really wanted to be catholic and believed the church to be true, that wouldn’t be the case. No problem or issue would stand in your way. And it is not suprising to me at all that this took less than a year to come full circle with you.

 

[jmcrae]

Jesus is present in a very real and special way in the Eucharist, but God is everywhere. We agree on that, right? Well my wife tomorrow will technically sin by not attendig Mass for Good Friday. But instead she will be at a church with other Christians singing praises to God and fellowshipping with other believers. “Neglect not meeting together as some of you are in the habit of doing.” I don’t believe that God is going to smite her for making the effort to praise Him and meet with and experience and share love with other Christians who aren’t Catholic.

When he said “neglect not to meet” he didn’t mean with just anybody; he meant with other Catholics.

I have a friend who converted from Buddhism, and she, too, has a hard time understanding why going to Temple isn’t the same thing as going to Mass; after all “we all believe in God,” and her parents wouldn’t understand her missing Temple to go to Mass.

These things take time, I think.

Good Friday isn’t a holy day of obligation, by the way, but Easter Sunday is, as are all Sundays of the year. One of the reasons we go to Confession during Holy Week is so that we can receive Holy Communion on Easter Sunday, which is the one Sunday of the year that we are required to do that, assuming we are in a state of grace - and if not, then we “make our Easter duty” on one of the other Sundays of Easter. (As of course you also already know.)

This is where people on this board will angry. “It’s a Holy day of obligation. Not attending Mass is a mortal sin…” But the Jesus I know through the Bible says that the sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath. It’d be so easy to get caught up in rules and miss the point of Christianity: love. (Which to me is kindness).

And did Jesus permit His disciples to neglect the gatherings at the Temple and at the synagogue? I see no indications that He did - indeed, I think He was actually at either the synagogue or the Temple, every time He got into trouble for healing or feeding people on the Sabbath.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Hi davidarlette, although “kids at mass” is not your only issue, I wanted to offer a suggestion. Have you considered either seeking out a parish that has a children’s word liturgy at one of their masses, or starting one yourself, either at your current parish or a new one? The ones I’ve encountered are geared for children from age four to grade four, but if you were involved, or even in attendance, you could probably bring a child of any age. Children’s word liturgy makes so much of the mass “child friendly”. If you like the idea but don’t know where to begin, you could open a thread in the Family Life forum, I’m sure someone would have ideas for getting started.

We’ve always taken our children to mass. They are well behaved but not perfect. We endured (and continue to endure) stares and glares. Perhaps we’re just attractive. Heaven help those who think our children or yours shoud not be at mass!

As to dealing with babies/toddlers at mass, I understand it can feel like something is lacking when you’re not able to focus entirely on the sacrament. I’ve been so impressed by some of the things written by the CAF poster who goes by the username Cat. She expresses beautifully the interior calm and focus she has during mass that makes exterior disturbances seem minor. (I’m paraphrasing here, so forgive me if I haven’t got it exactly right.) I always pray for this now and find it really helps.

I realize there’s more more going on with your faith than these surface issues, so I do send prayers. Please pray for us as well.

 

[jimmy]

So, is it possible to de-convert? I don’t really want to, but if I am honest, my wife is still protestant through and through, since she grew up as a preacher’s daughter, and perhaps traditional Catholicism isn’t what I thought. It sure isn’t the family-orientated, loving, cahritable institution I first knew and loved.

If you want family oriented maybe you could try a Maronite Catholic church or Melkite Catholic church if they are near you. If the Maronites and Melkites in Australia are like those in the US then you won’t find anyone more family oriented.

 

[qui_est_ce]

once I was being bothered by a man behind me constantly talking durin g the Mass, finally I turned and glared and was embarrassed to see that it was an obviously disabled man not in full control of himself. i turned back to the front and turned red with shame; I thought how wonderful that his family took him to Mass, and how maybe I shouldn’t have been so “into” my own experience that I was bothered so much by a small amount of noise being made by another person.

That reminds me of an elderly gentleman who sometimes attends 6:30 am daily mass. It’s dark and quiet because there are so few people attending. We affectionately refer to him as “Knuckles” because he cracks his knuckles often and loudly. Sometimes he mutters to himself. Our Catholic Church is truly catholic!:grouphug:

So you are saying that if you were immediately in front of us at Mass you wouldn’t turn around and give us death stares, or tch? If that’s so, then I wish there were more people like you.

I too have loved all over the country and have belonged to many parishes, with small children and a husband who did not attend mass. I have NEVER received “the look.” My kids did not “behave” at mass. When they would act up, people would reach into their purses and hand them things to occupy them. If they knew me, they would take the baby. When the children became disruptive, I would take them to the vestibule until they calmed down. I am adamant that parents should bring their children to mass from the very beginning. I never used the cry room, because it was full of wild out of control children.

In every parish, at one time or another, a priest would tell the parishioners that we should welcome families with small children. We were outright told that “looks” were not to be made.

Now I am the one who keeps toys in my purse for the little ones.

For us though: ie My wife, me, probably lukewarm,

now banned

to go to Mass/ Church and not have a sense of love and warmth from our brothers and sisters, well, …it just leaves us cold.I read once that Christianity is not a solitary activity. You know, horizontal and vertical relationship, etc. I have been encouraged by those who know me, to get involved in a Community, rather than normal diocesan life, because I am that sort of person. That was the kind of Catholicsm that attracted me. It was a bit of a shock to attend Mass and not talk to anyone! I need fellowship once I get over initial shyness.

We go to Mass not for warm fuzzies, but to unite ourselves in the suffering of Jesus in the Eucharist.

The social functions and parish organizations should provide the fellowship you seek. Have you become involved? You could help with RCIA, since you’ve been through it yourself. Choir, cleaning church, etc.

Well my wife tomorrow will technically sin by not attendig Mass for Good Friday.

There is no mass on Good Friday or Holy Saturday (the Vigil Mass belongs to Easter, not to Saturday)

This is where people on this board will angry. “It’s a Holy day of obligation. Not attending Mass is a mortal sin…” But the Jesus I know through the Bible says that the sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath. It’d be so easy to get caught up in rules and miss the point of Christianity: love. (Which to me is kindness).

I really wonder why you converted at all. Faith is a journey. Sometimes you go through the desert experience, this is why being Catholic is so good. You develop good habits that carry you through the dry spells.

I help with RCIA, all our Candidates have been to confession several times already.

Your misconceptions about the Catholic Church (among the few I have noticed: no Confession before Confirmation, Good Friday Prayer Service as mass and a Holy Day of Obligation, purpose of Eucharist), make me wonder if you are being disingenuous about having gone through RCIA at all or even being a practicing Catholic.

We don’t belong to the church of me, I think, and myself. We belong to the Church that Jesus told us to belong to.

 

[Pong]

Pong, what is your point? It seems you have a problem with me posting on this board.

I have a problem with your attitude. You came here not long ago telling us how much you knew and how wrong of the Church to make you wait etc… When people who have been through the process and know what they’re talking about suggested otherwise, you didn’t want to hear it. You knew better. Now you’re telling us you want to “de-convert” after such a short while?! To put it modernly, “you’ve got to be kidding me!”

If I was seeking approval and support, what would be your problem with that?

You hear what you want to hear. People have tried to help you, but all you seem to want is sympathy and someone to agree with you. Sorry, no dice.

It seems though as though you are “keeping account of wrongs.” And then trying to bring them to light, to what? Shame me? I cannot see any good intention there, and I absolutely hate lies like this:

You presume to know my mind now as well? When I said I would pray for you, I meant it.

I have no such thing. You meant no good intent by that post. And to me, when people use expressions like that (when they don’t mean it) it borders on blasphemy.

On second thought, if you are going to decide for yourself what constitutes blasphemy, you probably would be happier in a “do your own thing” protestant church.

 

[Allyson]

And Allyson, if you were talking to me, you are right. I was first introduced to a Mass which was quiet and reverential and meditative. I still like that. It just seems incompatible with children.

I understand; really I do. There is no reason why you can’t take time for yourself to go to Mass separately sometimes, but Mass as a family is also important. Many children will learn to settle down most of the time. More importantly, they will learn the importance of going to Mass by going. This starts at an early age. You really do need to find what will work best overall, but just don’t give up on going all together while you can. Eventually, they will grow up, and Mass may seem too quiet .

God Bless and Many Prayers,
R,

 

[kell0618]

I think that’s rather harsh. What would you call the parishioners who made the OP feel so uncomfortable that he’d consider leaving the Church because of it?

Didn’t Our Lord make it clear that we’re responsible for each other; that we’re “our brother’s keeper”? If our brother stumbles because we put a boulder in the path ahead of him, who is the real “Judas”?

I was addressing ‘lukewarm’. If you want to know my response to the OP, please look above.

Were these words harsh, yes or no?

• why are Catholic Parish secretaries the nastiest people in the world?
• Frankly I don’t know how a Church can run like the Catholic Church. It has to be the most unwelcoming Church in the world (aside from an Irish Catholic in a Greek Orthodox Church)
  Peace

 

[kell0618]

It’s comments like that that had me feel it pointless to attend the Catholic Church, I may be wrong but your tone to me makes me think you would be one of the people turning around glaring at me because my daughter is babbling or crying…

I left the Catholic Church for many resons this was just one of them…

Yes, I know. The nastiest secretaries in the world as well as the worst run Church (except for the Orothodox). I read the other post.

BTW, I always feel blessed to have children present at Mass and don’t mind the babbling babies. Each child is a gift from God. I do however get annoyed with the grown ups sometimes.

I see you’ve been banned, but perhaps you’ll read this anyway.

Peace

 

[theAuthor]

lukewarm is banned? He olnly said what many people think, in his posts I read. I guess diversity of opinion is not allowed here. It’s telling.:tsktsk:

qui est ce, OK, you win. I am not welcome at the Catholic Church. You can have it all to yourself.

I will say this though: you have been blessed to not have gotten “the look.” That does not mean that other people have not gotten it. Consider yourself fortunate, because it is very unpleasant when you do.

I must have made a blunder about Good Friday Mass. I attended a latin Mass once when the stautues were all covered and I asked why. They said it was to represent the sadness commemorating Christ’s death and that they would take the shrouds away on Easter Sunday. I thought that must have been Good Friday because it is a public holiday. Must have been the saturday instead. So shoot me.

no Confession before Confirmation, Good Friday Prayer Service as mass and a Holy Day of Obligation, purpose of Eucharist), make me wonder if you are being disingenuous about having gone through RCIA at all or even being a practicing Catholic.

Hmm, I think if I remember rightly we made our first confessions the Friday before being received into the Church. No, we were not allowed to make Confession during RCIA, until just before our First Communion. If you have a problem with that, contact the Bishop of Brisbane. Not my policy.

RCIA may not be the same everywhere. Ours was mainly a lesson in the Reformation, the Reformation, we might get sidetracked onto the life of a Saint, then it was back to the Reformation, and how wrong protestants are and how persecuted Catholics are. We split off from the group and had RCIA at our house at our sponsor’s request, because she didn’t want to go back to very basic Christian stuff, which we all know and believe. So we didn’t go through as a group which may have been better, because by the time RCIA was over you’d have friends.

I offered to play guitar (which is my skill and something I’ve done at Mass before), but they said that there are plenty of musicians already. That’s OK. In Brisbane, unlike Sydney, service is hard to come by. ie If you offer to do something, you get told that so and so already does that, etc. The impression is that they don’t need any more help. In Sydney it was the opposite. There was lots to do.

I think your concept of the Eucharist is intersting. So there is only one way to look at Mass, and the Eucharist, which is your way, huh? My everyday life is full of pain and suffering, so being able to be in the presence of God, and to enjoy the Lord’s Real presence is a foretaste of Heaven and a joy. It reminds me of Heaven. DO you honestly think, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed” is supposed to be a “downer”? It was said by the Centurion, who, when he said it to Jesus, Jesus healed his servant immediately. "Taste and see that the Lord is good!" I could go on all day. I am united in Christ’s sufferings every day, helping the sick, etc. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I think there is more than one valid way to see the Eucharist. There can certainly be great joy, because the Lord died on my behalf, and he promises those who eat His body and drink His blood that they will have Life. What’s to be sad about there?

Pong, it seems you have not read the whole thread. I left it as I would be trying a different Parish, if you read my other posts.
You were being very critical to bring up year-old posts in the way that you did. I think you were trying to embarrass me or something. I can’t think of a charitable motive. What was your charitable motive in doing that?

It works both ways. I took a guy to task once who was preaching about the saying the Creed during an AOG service. He said, “If you want to do that, God Bless you, but…” then went on to attack Catholics. So he didn’t mean the bit about “God Bless you.” He was using it as an expression or something. Yeah that sort of thing really annoys me. Isn’t that taking the Lord’s name in vain, just like using it as a cuss-word or filler?

I am sad that lukewarm is banned. He was understanding. Those comments just posted aren’t harsh. He’s just sharing his experience. I read them and go, “I’m glad that I have had the good fortune to only meet nice Parish Secretaries.” I don’t doubt that he has had bad experinces. Why would he bother coming here to share that?

thomasf:

But I can’t help but think your motives for coming into the church weren’t right from the beginning,

Why don’t you share with us your astounding ability to read my heart from across the globe, and tell me what was my motive for joining?

Good Daughter You understand me. Thankyou so much. Already praying for you right now.

When he said “neglect not to meet” he didn’t mean with just anybody; he meant with other Catholics. There’s the rub! That strikes to the core of the issue. I believe, as does my wife and even many Catholics, that this means other Christians. I don’t think it is necassary to have an “us vs them” mentality when it comes to our prot brothers and sisters. It’s even in the CCC.

 

[kell0618]

lukewarm is banned? He olnly said what many people think, in his posts I read. I guess diversity of opinion is not allowed here. It’s telling.:tsktsk:

qui est ce, OK, you win. I am not welcome at the Catholic Church. You can have it all to yourself.

I will say this though: you have been blessed to not have gotten “the look.” That does not mean that other people have not gotten it. Consider yourself fortunate, because it is very unpleasant when you do.

I must have made a blunder about Good Friday Mass. I attended a latin Mass once when the stautues were all covered and I asked why. They said it was to represent the sadness commemorating Christ’s death and that they would take the shrouds away on Easter Sunday. I thought that must have been Good Friday because it is a public holiday. Must have been the saturday instead. So shoot me.

Hmm, I think if I remember rightly we made our first confessions the Friday before being received into the Church. No, we were not allowed to make Confession during RCIA, until just before our First Communion. If you have a problem with that, contact the Bishop of Brisbane. Not my policy.

RCIA may not be the same everywhere. Ours was mainly a lesson in the Reformation, the Reformation, we might get sidetracked onto the life of a Saint, then it was back to the Reformation, and how wrong protestants are and how persecuted Catholics are. We split off from the group and had RCIA at our house at our sponsor’s request, because she didn’t want to go back to very basic Christian stuff, which we all know and believe. So we didn’t go through as a group which may have been better, because by the time RCIA was over you’d have friends.

I offered to play guitar (which is my skill and something I’ve done at Mass before), but they said that there are plenty of musicians already. That’s OK. In Brisbane, unlike Sydney, service is hard to come by. ie If you offer to do something, you get told that so and so already does that, etc. The impression is that they don’t need any more help. In Sydney it was the opposite. There was lots to do.

I think your concept of the Eucharist is intersting. So there is only one way to look at Mass, and the Eucharist, which is your way, huh? My everyday life is full of pain and suffering, so being able to be in the presence of God, and to enjoy the Lord’s Real presence is a foretaste of Heaven and a joy. It reminds me of Heaven. DO you honestly think, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed” is supposed to be a “downer”? It was said by the Centurion, who, when he said it to Jesus, Jesus healed his servant immediately. "Taste and see that the Lord is good!" I could go on all day. I am united in Christ’s sufferings every day, helping the sick, etc. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I think there is more than one valid way to see the Eucharist. There can certainly be great joy, because the Lord died on my behalf, and he promises those who eat His body and drink His blood that they will have Life. What’s to be sad about there?

Pong, it seems you have not read the whole thread. I left it as I would be trying a different Parish, if you read my other posts.
You were being very critical to bring up year-old posts in the way that you did. I think you were trying to embarrass me or something. I can’t think of a charitable motive. What was your charitable motive in doing that?

It works both ways. I took a guy to task once who was preaching about the saying the Creed during an AOG service. He said, “If you want to do that, God Bless you, but…” then went on to attack Catholics. So he didn’t mean the bit about “God Bless you.” He was using it as an expression or something. Yeah that sort of thing really annoys me. Isn’t that taking the Lord’s name in vain, just like using it as a cuss-word or filler?

I am sad that lukewarm is banned. He was understanding. Those comments just posted aren’t harsh. He’s just sharing his experience. I read them and go, “I’m glad that I have had the good fortune to only meet nice Parish Secretaries.” I don’t doubt that he has had bad experinces. Why would he bother coming here to share that?

thomasf:
Why don’t you share with us your astounding ability to read my heart from across the globe, and tell me what was my motive for joining?

Good Daughter You understand me. Thankyou so much. Already praying for you right now.

When he said “neglect not to meet” he didn’t mean with just anybody; he meant with other Catholics. There’s the rub! That strikes to the core of the issue. I believe, as does my wife and even many Catholics, that this means other Christians. I don’t think it is necassary to have an “us vs them” mentality when it comes to our prot brothers and sisters. It’s even in the CCC.

Dear David:

If you are concerned about why someone is banned, please see the Rules of the Road. You cannot assume to know the reason, as the rules clearly state over and over again:

A review of the affected member’s recent public activity probably will not reveal the reasons for the suspension because the objectionable material most likely will have been removed.

Because someone is banned, jumping to the conclusion that it is because of statements made within this thread is misguided. The man has made 725 posts, only six of which were within this thread.

I continue to keep you and your family in my prayers.

Peace be with you,

Kelly

 

[qui_est_ce]

lukewarm is banned? He olnly said what many people think, in his posts I read. I guess diversity of opinion is not allowed here. It’s telling.:tsktsk:

You have no idea why Lukewarm is banned. People receive warnings and suspensions before being banned. (Personal Experience). The offensive posts are removed. Read the rules on what will get you banned - it’s not for diversity of opinion.

qui est ce, OK, you win. I am not welcome at the Catholic Church. You can have it all to yourself.

Was there a contest?

I will say this though: you have been blessed to not have gotten “the look.” That does not mean that other people have not gotten it. Consider yourself fortunate, because it is very unpleasant when you do.

I actually feel sorry for people who give looks, their hearts must be made of stone.

I think your concept of the Eucharist is intersting. So there is only one way to look at Mass, and the Eucharist, which is your way, huh? My everyday life is full of pain and suffering, so being able to be in the presence of God, and to enjoy the Lord’s Real presence is a foretaste of Heaven and a joy. It reminds me of Heaven. DO you honestly think, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed” is supposed to be a “downer”? It was said by the Centurion, who, when he said it to Jesus, Jesus healed his servant immediately. "Taste and see that the Lord is good!" I could go on all day. I am united in Christ’s sufferings every day, helping the sick, etc. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I think there is more than one valid way to see the Eucharist. There can certainly be great joy, because the Lord died on my behalf, and he promises those who eat His body and drink His blood that they will have Life. What’s to be sad about there?

Did I say suffering was bad? Did not St Paul Rejoice in his suffering?

*Colossions 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church, *

BTW, it’s not my way, it is the Teaching of the Church.

I feel very sad that you have been so poorly catechized. Perhaps you could go on a Christ Renews His Parish or ACTS retreat. go to EWTN and see what is being offered in your area.

 

[theAuthor]

Was there a contest?

The underlying message was not one of welcoming. It is a bit embarrasing to be told you are poorly catechised when you’ve had as much Catechesis as I have. We honestly were not allowed to make Confession until just before First Communion. OK I made a mistake re: Good Friday. So what? Yeah, I’d say it seems like a contest when someone points out your mistakes like that. jmcrae managed to point it out to me gently:

Good Friday isn’t a holy day of obligation, by the way, but Easter Sunday is,

I understand the suffering view of the Eucharist, and Paul’s writings. He was shipwrecked 3 times, bitten by a snake, put in jail, persecuted. I don’t think that verse from Colossians applies specifically to the Eucharist. We are to count it as a joy to be called to suffer for Christ which I do anyway (ie suffer). And you are welcome to meditate sorrowfully on the Eucharist.

I was taught that the Eucharist is the most sublime part of Mass. We used to have a quiet time of meditation afterwards to enjoy the Lord’s presence. After seeking God, finding Him in Real form is delightful.

When you pray a Rosary, you can meditate on the sorrowful mysteries, or the joyful mysteries. Why wouldn’t Holy Communion be as deep and multi-dimensional as the Rosary? I think it is more so, because it is Calvary, and meditating on the Cross is like looking at a Diamond. There are lots of beautiful ways to look at it. Here are just a few:

1. Christ as the new Passover lamb, who is slain to take away the sins of the world. That means my sin. That’s joyful!
2. That we too must die with Christ that we will be raised up again with him also (sorrowful).
3. That Calvary undid what Adam did. Christ put us right with God again. (joyful).
4. We are healed by the blood of the lamb who was Slain (joyful).
5. We all yearn for God to be near us. At Communion he is with us. He literally is inside us (very joyful). Read Scott Hahn. It’s very intimate. God is not hiding behind a cloth in the temple anymore.
6. Whoever eats my body and drinks my blood will have everlasting life. (joyful)
7. In his human self, Jesus wanted to back out. But he didn’t. Calvary is the ultimate model of thy will, not mine, be done. Suffering for God’s sake (sorrowful).

I can see lots of valid, very Catholic ways to be joyful about the Eucharist, as well as sorrowful. I’m sure I wouldn’t have to search hard to find lots of Saints who agree with me. Actually, it is probably more likely the other way around. I would have begun thinking this way from reading the lives of the saints, Scott Hahn, etc.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The underlying message was not one of welcoming. It is a bit embarrasing to be told you are poorly catechised when you’ve had as much Catechesis as I have.

You are the one who wrote that RCIA was about the Reformation.RCIA may not be the same everywhere.

Ours was mainly a lesson in the Reformation, the Reformation, we might get sidetracked onto the life of a Saint, then it was back to the Reformation, and how wrong protestants are and how persecuted Catholics are. We split off from the group and had RCIA at our house at our sponsor’s request, because she didn’t want to go back to very basic Christian stuff, which we all know and believe. So we didn’t go through as a group which may have been better, because by the time RCIA was over you’d have friends.

So how does all the above have anything to do with “looks?” If you believe, then believe, and stop worrying about bothering people. You stated that attending mass with children was not as reverent as you first experienced it. That’s probably true. Having babies leaves little time for personal reverence. In fact, I remember when my first child was born…the total unconditional love the Jesus has for us. Yesterday never existed. This tiny squalling infant…I would lay my life down for him.

Now that they are grown up, I can experience AND welcome that reverence at daily 6:30 am mass.

 

[theAuthor]

It’s good that we can look forward to a period when our chilren are older and we can go together as a family to Mass, if trying other Parishes doesn’t work. I see families there with their teens. I’d like for us to be doing that. I don’t believe that you have to start them from birth, because Will just won’t make it past the homily.

It may also turn out that I go to Mass, while my wife attends that other church, which is less than ideal, but may be more practical for the kids at this stage. They are doing a series of sermons on the problem of evil (why does God allow it?, does God cause it? -thinking about stories like Job, when God ordered the killing of peoples in other stories, etc). It’d be very interesting, but you are right that I am Catholic, and need to find a more suitable Parish.

Anyway, it’s been an interesting thread. On the whole I’ve been encouraged to return to Church.

As for the Reformation, our sponsor was obsessed with it, and how evil protestants are, etc. I don’t see it like that. Australia is a very secular society. I am happy that people are going to any Christian church of some sort. For me it’s “Do you believe the creed?” If so, you are my brother or sister. It’s just that for some people the one holy catholic apostolic church might mean “universal and invisible.”

As Catholics we believe that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church (ie it can never die out). I believe that, but when I look at the stats, based on the current rate of decline, there would be no church in about 50 years or so. Think about it. That’s why I don’t have an us vs them attitude towards protestants. They are our friends.