De-veiling the bride

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tenebrae
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
dixieagle said:
But you had mentioned previously that you left the Church because of a “mixed marriage”…:confused:
Click to expand...
I left the Church because of its leadership, or rather its lack thereof, that was evidenced in its treatment of women, children, and mixed marriages. The mixed marriage issue was a distant third place. I still have many friends and relatives in the Church, one of whom firmly believes in “change from within” and that “the ordination of women is just around the corner if enough women stay in the Church and fight for it.”
I do not agree with the whole “change from within” “stay in the Church and fight for it” thing; I think it is disrespectful toward the Vatican. I may be a former Catholic, but I have got more respect for the Vatican and its judgments and the Church community than that.
 
former_Catholic said:
I left the Church because of its leadership, or rather its lack thereof, that was evidenced in its treatment of women, children, and mixed marriages. The mixed marriage issue was a distant third place. I still have many friends and relatives in the Church, one of whom firmly believes in “change from within” and that “the ordination of women is just around the corner if enough women stay in the Church and fight for it.”
I do not agree with the whole “change from within” “stay in the Church and fight for it” thing; I think it is disrespectful toward the Vatican. I may be a former Catholic, but I have got more respect for the Vatican and its judgments and the Church community than that.
Click to expand...
Well, if your friend thinks that “the ordination of women is just around the corner”, he/she is simply deluded. Not going to happen…ever, as the Church believes it CANNOT ordain women. But that is another thread entirely.

While it is sometimes very difficult, we must remember that it is Christ’s Church, but made up of very human sinners…sometimes even among the clergy and hierarchy. It doesn’t change the Truth, though.

God bless!
 
saoirsephoto said:
One version of that custom is a Polish wedding custom, one that we included at my own wedding. Since my veil was an antique lace family heirloom, at the reception I removed it and used my mother-in-laws smaller non-heirloom veil. Our tradition was part of the “dollar dance” where I took the veil, and with a great flourish plunked it into the vaska (sp? I’m not skilled at Polish spelling!), ie large metal bucket, and put on the apron my mother-in-law made for me. The apron is more ceremonial than practical, it hangs in my kitchen but its simply too pretty and too hard to clean to actually use for cooking or anything you’d normally need an apron for! After that the vaska was handed to my maid-of-honor and people would throw in a dollar, or change to get the chance to do a polka with the bride. Mine was more traditional, I have heard of more Americanized versions especially in Pennsylvania and other areas.

A more traditional take would involve a complicated hair braiding ritual the day before the wedding and at the ceremony, and at the end of the dollar dance the last one to dance with the bride is her husband, who throws in his entire wallet to signify that he essentially wins.

It was a lot of fun, but I was exhausted after so much polka!
Click to expand...
My cousin married a Polish girl over 30 years ago and I remember the apron ceremony at their reception. Lots of Polkas. Their daughter married 6-7 years ago and did the same thing at her reception.
 
dachsiemom2 said:
My cousin married a Polish girl over 30 years ago and I remember the apron ceremony at their reception. Lots of Polkas. Their daughter married 6-7 years ago and did the same thing at her reception.
Click to expand...
I’ve got to hand it to the Polish brides to hold up through all the polka-ing. I was polka-ing with my daughter at a wedding 9 years ago and I think I only lasted 6 rounds of polka before I had to sit it out…
It must be very effective at keeping one warm in the Polish winters, I’m sure…100% effective if used correctly!
 
nickybr38 said:
Does anyone know if Bridesmaids have ever veiled at Catholic weddings? It seems strange to me that the very idea of veiling a bridesmaid is so foreign (I’ve been looking for information on this - not because I am getting married, I’m single, but because while reading about veiling in the church I thought about marriage in the church and then, further, why aren’t people veiling their bridesmaids?).
Click to expand...
At the wedding of some friends last year, the bridesmaids had mantillas to match the little shrugs they wore with their dresses. The whole effect was rather pretty, I thought. I’ve seen photos of other weddings in conservative Catholic circles with veiled bridesmaids, too. Although I don’t plan to have the bridesmaids at my wedding veiled - my sisters would not be pleased to be handed mantillas - it is a nice idea.
 
I’d never seen the veil to apron thing before a few weeks ago. One of my friends married into a VERY Polish family. I thought it was cool, myself. A “welcome to the club” kind of thing as opposed to a “you’re banished to the kitchen” kind of thing. 🙂

And there are even 31 year old virgins (Prayer, fasting, and alms-giving, people! You can resist temptation!)… like me. At least for now. I’m getting married in August. I will have a veil (though it won’t cover my face since I’ll be grinning ear to ear) and a dollar dance (which is customary in my Czech/German family). If I were Polish, though, or had a family history of the apron tradition, I would do it in a heartbeat. My engineer-by-day side wouldn’t be offended, either. Come to think of it, we actually registered for an apron…
 
MusicMAM said:
I’d never seen the veil to apron thing before a few weeks ago. One of my friends married into a VERY Polish family. I thought it was cool, myself. A “welcome to the club” kind of thing as opposed to a “you’re banished to the kitchen” kind of thing. 🙂

And there are even 31 year old virgins (Prayer, fasting, and alms-giving, people! You can resist temptation!)… like me. At least for now. I’m getting married in August. I will have a veil (though it won’t cover my face since I’ll be grinning ear to ear) and a dollar dance (which is customary in my Czech/German family). If I were Polish, though, or had a family history of the apron tradition, I would do it in a heartbeat. My engineer-by-day side wouldn’t be offended, either. Come to think of it, we actually registered for an apron…
Click to expand...
Funny how the ethnic traditions blur and change according to locality and families. My father’s side of the family is Polish so I had to have the dollar dance and it was my mom’s German side of the family that thought it was inappropriate. We had an “apron” but the maid of honor wore it to collect the money for the dollar dance.
 
Got married earlier this year in Moscow under the Latin Catholic rite (I’m Catholic, my husband is Russian Orthodox and we agreed to do it this way). Coming from a Spanish family, I followed the tradition of getting de-veiled by my now-husband just after being delivered before the priest by my father, at the begining of the Bridal Mass. As we see it in our culture, this action is a symbol of the bride’s family delivering a pure virginal wife to the groom and making the priest witness of it…although I am not sure of how many people are aware of this meaning when they repeat the gesture :rolleyes:
Seen this way, the bride would not be suppossed to be wearing the veil over her face after the ceremony, least on the party…But come on! if it is a local tradition and makes you happy, why not having the second de-veiling?👍
Anyway, as for the worried comentary on wheter we can still find many 26 years older virgins, I think that, as far as there are TRUE 26-years-old-Christians, there would be more than enough virgins of this age about 😃
 
My mother received permission from her bishop to be married on the lawn at her parents’ home on a remote sheep station because the Church at the nearest town was too tiny to fit even the immediate family inside (Mum is one of 10 and Dad is one of 9).
They had a nuptial Mass and the family’s consecrated altar (used regularly for Mass by visiting and holidaying priests) was set up on the lawn.
 
dixieagle said:
I’m sure that most brides don’t even know the origins of the bridal veil…they just like it because it’s traditional and pretty.
Click to expand...
I know of one bride who refused to the wear a veil because she did know the tradition behind it, and wanted no part in it.
 
The history of the veil isn’t terrible in every culture.

Anyway, I found this link,

headpieceheaven.com/OriginsOfBridalVeil.html

And this from wikipedia:
In Judaism, the tradition of wearing a veil dates back to biblical times. When Rebekah went to meet her betrothed, Isaac, she veiled herself as he approached. The veiling was both a symbol of modesty, and a definition of her personal space. Rebekah is known as the most self-assured of the matriarchs, and by veiling herself she indicated that she would still be her own person even when she would be living her life with Isaac. [10]. It is important to note that Rebekah did not veil herself when traveling with men to meet Isaac, but only did so when he was approaching. Just before the wedding ceremony the badeken or bedeken is held. The groom places the veil over the bride’s face, and either he or the officiating Rabbi gives her a blessing. The veil stays on her face until just before the end of the wedding ceremony - when they are legally married according to Jewish law - then the groom helps lift the veil from off her face.

The most often cited interpretation for the badeken is that when Jacob went to marry Rachel, his father in law Laban tricked him into marrying Leah, Rachel’s older and homlier sister. Many say that the veiling ceremony takes place to make sure that the groom is marrying the right bride! Some say that as the groom places the veil over his bride, he makes an implicit promise to clothe and protect her. Finally, by covering her face, the groom recognizes that he his marrying the bride for her inner beauty; while looks will fade with time, his love will be everlasting. in some ultra-orthodox traditions the bride wears an opaque veil as she is escorted down the aisle to meet her groom. This shows her complete willingness to enter into the marriage and her absolute trust that she is marrying the right man. In Judaism, a wedding is not considered valid unless the bride willingly consents to it.
 
While some of what the link says is probably true, I’d be careful to take it with a grain of salt - most accounts of the origins of wedding customs are pure pseudohistory.

The custom I’ve seen in American weddings of the bride’s being delivered to the altar by her father and there de-veiled has always seemed a bit off-putting to me. Not so much the veil part of it, but the idea of being handed over. I’m not all that keen on being the subject of a transaction, even a stylized and ceremonial one. 🤷
 
Aetheria said:
While some of what the link says is probably true, I’d be careful to take it with a grain of salt - most accounts of the origins of wedding customs are pure pseudohistory.

The custom I’ve seen in American weddings of the bride’s being delivered to the altar by her father and there de-veiled has always seemed a bit off-putting to me. Not so much the veil part of it, but the idea of being handed over. I’m not all that keen on being the subject of a transaction, even a stylized and ceremonial one. 🤷
Click to expand...
Okay. 🙂 I, personally, think its sweet. Most father’s love their daughters and will take care of their daughters no matter what. When his daughter gets married he is freed of this (to an extent). Mind you, most dads will keep helping even after their daughter is married but usually that obligation to protect, honor, cherish falls to the husband. Also keep in mind that traditionally (in most cultures) women stayed in the family home until they married. You didn’t have girls moving out and living alone until after marriage so this whole ‘you take care of her now’ thing was even MORE symbolic.

I dunno, I guess I don’t mind letting men take care of me so I just don’t take issue with these things. I’m definitely NOT a modern woman. Whoops!
 
nickybr38 said:
Okay. 🙂 I, personally, think its sweet. Most father’s love their daughters and will take care of their daughters no matter what. When his daughter gets married he is freed of this (to an extent). Mind you, most dads will keep helping even after their daughter is married but usually that obligation to protect, honor, cherish falls to the husband. Also keep in mind that traditionally (in most cultures) women stayed in the family home until they married. You didn’t have girls moving out and living alone until after marriage so this whole ‘you take care of her now’ thing was even MORE symbolic.

I dunno, I guess I don’t mind letting men take care of me so I just don’t take issue with these things. I’m definitely NOT a modern woman. Whoops!
Click to expand...
I think is is sweet too. If/when I get married, I will have my older brother walk me down the aisle (my parents divorced when I was 5 because my father was abusive and cheated). So my older brother stepped in and acted as a father figure.

I view it as less a transaction as a passing on a treasure (apparently, I don’t see me as anything valuable). My brother attitude is: “I’ve helped her until now, now she is your responsibility, and if you mess it up, I have shotgun and shovel”. 😛
 
I guess it’s just a matter of having a different emphasis. Not that I object to being taken care of - I fall pretty easily into a traditional feminine role, anyway - but I’d prefer the emphasis to be on the fact that, according to the way the sacrament works, I am the one who gives myself in marriage, not my dad. It’s not primarily about someone else taking responsibility for me.

The thought behind the custom, though, is usually rather sweet and it is nice that people use it as an expression of familial love.There’s nothing wrong with people doing it at weddings; I just don’t think it’s the best match with what’s actually going on in the sacrament of matrimony.
 
MusicMAM said:
I will have a veil (though it won’t cover my face since I’ll be grinning ear to ear) and a dollar dance (which is customary in my Czech/German family). If I were Polish, though, or had a family history of the apron tradition, I would do it in a heartbeat. My engineer-by-day side wouldn’t be offended, either. Come to think of it, we actually registered for an apron…
Click to expand...
If you’re the bride going to be doing the polka with your wedding guests in *August *
(August? Wow… you’ve got guts! It’s so hot in August!) You might want to practice the polka a whole lot beforehand so you don’t pass out from the heat…
It was 110 F when we married. I hired a bluegrass band to play music impossible to dance to so that no one would be required or even tempted to dance (particularly my father!)… and suffer heatstroke as a result (particularly my father!)… but everybody did just fine with foot tapping and clapping in the heat, and everybody absolutely loved the music because it was lively, but nobody was required, begged, or even tempted to go out there in the 110 F heat dancing the polka…

The band said it was the best food and the best and by far the most appreciative and attentive audience they had ever had. They were ready to do it all over again in a heartbeat… did I have any sisters or brothers planning on getting married any time soon?

Best wishes.
 
former_Catholic said:
If you’re the bride going to be doing the polka with your wedding guests in *August *
(August? Wow… you’ve got guts! It’s so hot in August!) You might want to practice the polka a whole lot beforehand so you don’t pass out from the heat…
It was 110 F when we married. I hired a bluegrass band to play music impossible to dance to so that no one would be required or even tempted to dance (particularly my father!)… and suffer heatstroke as a result (particularly my father!)… but everybody did just fine with foot tapping and clapping in the heat, and everybody absolutely loved the music because it was lively, but nobody was required, begged, or even tempted to go out there in the 110 F heat dancing the polka…

The band said it was the best food and the best and by far the most appreciative and attentive audience they had ever had. They were ready to do it all over again in a heartbeat… did I have any sisters or brothers planning on getting married any time soon?

Best wishes.
Click to expand...
Maybe she’s having the reception in a place that has air conditioning. I did.
 
former_Catholic said:
If you’re the bride going to be doing the polka with your wedding guests in *August *
(August? Wow… you’ve got guts! It’s so hot in August!) You might want to practice the polka a whole lot beforehand so you don’t pass out from the heat…
.
Click to expand...
Yes, the reception is air conditioned! Thank goodness for that! We actually do a lot of dancing - lindy hop, two step, a little waltz… and polka! We brushed up on it a few weeks ago at a friends wedding. 🙂
 
MusicMAM said:
Yes, the reception is air conditioned! Thank goodness for that! We actually do a lot of dancing - lindy hop, two step, a little waltz… and polka! We brushed up on it a few weeks ago at a friends wedding. 🙂
Click to expand...
Air conditioning? Good deal! I’m sure you’ll go out there and burn the floor! Best wishes!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top