Deacon Father gives bad advice

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I hope you don’t mean covering up for his inappropriate advice given. Using words like discern and pray to contemplate how to lie to her husband can no way be associated with any part of Bible or Catechism. He is purposefully using religion to manipulate his daughter and encouraging her to keep silent and keep things away from her husband.

I understand that bringing up this issue will most likely strain the relationship in the family, but expecting her not to reach out to our church for help is not the answer. Silencing this type of behavior can lead to psychological problems. We need to let Jesus and those who serve him help comfort the daughter and not be afraid of what effect bringing this issue up could have on the father’s diaconate formation. She cannot be blamed for his advice. If it strains the family relationship, it will be based on his actions, not the daughter for coming foward.

This type of attitude/advice should not be tolerated from a man going through formation. Down the road, I could see him leading grandchildren astray by giving them misguided advice and could even drive them away from Jesus.

I think that the daughter has an ethical obligation to the God, the Catholic Church, and her father to bring these issues up to a pastor. The decision for fitness for the diaconate will then come from God and our Church, no one else.

1 Timothy 3:2
 
Jabcat said:
I think that the daughter has an ethical obligation to the God, the Catholic Church, and her father to bring these issues up to a pastor. The decision for fitness for the diaconate will then come from God and our Church, no one else.
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I don’t think she is ethically bound to do so.

Imagine yourself telling this story to an authority figure. Would it sound important, or would it sound like family tittle-tattle from a troubled young woman?

If the OP feels called to talk to the diaconate program, that may be the right thing to do, but she is not obligated to blow up her relationship with her entire family (and we have to assume that they’ll figure out who told) over this stuff. I think that relationship should be very cautious going forward, but I don’t think she is obligated to do so.

The diaconate program has had a multitude of opportunities to check this man for suitability, and if they can’t see the lack of integrity, I’m not sure that the OP is in a position to demonstrate it to them.

tldr, I think either report or don’t report is moral (assuming she’s willing to live with the consequences of “report”), but I don’t think there is a moral obligation to report. He is not, after all, a felon or a pedophile that we know of.
 
A child being abused by his grandfather is ‘tittle tattle’? Yes, there are ties when it may be justified (spanking-not abuse), but, if that be the case, why keep it from the child’s father? Why, keep it from anyone?

No, I don’t mean ‘shout it from the housetops’, but there is quite a space between keeping family secrets, and just lying for appearance’s sake!
This man is being considered for the diaconate. If he’s broken rules himself, and told family members to cover for him, I don’t see it as being right to keep these things from his superiors, the ones entrusted with the task of discerning this vocation.
 
I think the OP should feel free to do so (if she is prepared to deal with the possibility of that side of the family finding out and the complete end of her relationship with them), but I don’t feel that she should feel obligated to tell on him to his diaconate program.

Insisting that she has a duty to tell on her father is unfair to her.
 
I would hope that her identity would be kept secret, if she decided to. If he program decided to suspend/deny ordination, I hope her name would not be made public.
 
I would hope so too, but our OP has to make her choices bearing in mind that her father might be told or her family might figure it out without being told and blame her.

It sounds like the OP is already the scapegoat in her family.
 
I am not sure what being objective has to do with understanding our faith. How does thou shalt not lie change whether its family or not?

Is there ever a good reason to lie? Is someone recommending a couple to lie to each other worthy of teaching others?

It scares me that there is going to be someone with a leadership position in the church that is willing to cover up child abuse, and it scares me more that mostly everyone on this blog dismisses it without a second thought.

I pray light will come into this persons heart and bring him out of the dark place he is currently in, and for someone to talk to his priest or mentor to inform them of his actions.
 
Jabcat said:
I am not sure what being objective has to do with understanding our faith. How does thou shalt not lie change whether its family or not?
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Nobody is saying the OP’s dad is a fantastic person or is exercising good judgment–the question is, is the OP obligated to inform the seminary or diocese?
 
Ok, you are way over the top, IMO. First of all, the OP never suggested her fathered lied or asked her to lie. He simply told her she should have withheld information from her husband. Now he is very wrong, IMO.
We also do not know that he committed any type of child abuse. He spanked his grandchild. Not a cool thing to do IMO, but it happens.

But can we please get past this “he is not fit to be a deacon” business. We do not know. Everyone makes mistakes. Deaconate formation is geared to determine who is suited and has a true calling to the vocation. The OP has no responsibility to insert herself into that. Trust the Church.

We are dismissing this because we do not know enough information. The OP has moved on. Perhaps we should also.
 
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I am sorry. I might be a bit biased in all of this because I am the OP’s husband. Let me give you all some background to give this a broader perspective.

My wife and I started dating in HS and continued through college and then were married back in 2010. Ever since we were dating, I have always made it a point to respect my in-laws, making sure we attend and participate in all family functions and be a good son-in-law. My wife comes from a very religious family where the father was the center of the household. We have had a solid marriage for the past 8 years and have endured cancer, miscarriages, and pretty much everything else life has thrown at us.

However, ever since we were married, we have been struggling with my in-law’s inability to let go of the control they once had on their daughter. Even though I have always respected them and always tried to make them happy, they still see me as an outsider (after 17 years) and have told my wife I am not of their own blood and not a part of the family. My policy has always been to stay quiet and let my wife deal with her family. I have been yelled at, put down, and had my faith put into question numerous times by my father-in-law, and never said a word. Unfortunately, neither has my wife. Her upbringing has a lot to do with her not being able to stand up to her parents. A few years ago, she went to a psychologist and discovered that there were a lot of problems with the relationship between her and her parents.

As you can probably gather from the preceding posts, my father-in-law is a very religious man and is currently studying to become a deacon, which should be viewed as a tremendous joyous and blessing, but he has continually used his religious knowledge to manipulate both my wife and myself. He likes to site the Bible passage about obeying your parents to tell my wife she should be obedient to him and not me, and when you try to tell him about leaving your parents to become one, he says that we are reading that passage out of context. For the past few years every time we have a family get together he likes to shame both me and my wife. He likes to tell me that I sin by praying to the Father and not Jesus, because I shame Jesus by not praying directly him. He has also called me a protestant for attending Dave Ramsey with my wife and mocked me for saying that Allah is not our God, which I learned he is not from my parish. It just seems that whatever point of view my wife or I have, is wrong, and he makes up Church doctrine as he goes along.
 
The most recent incident, which happened about 3 weeks ago, both my FIL and MIL cornered my wife when I was out of town to talk to her. They started the conversation by telling my wife she must be cautious of me, which they then followed up by saying she needs to pray to God and discern what she can and can’t tell me. Such as the time when my wife told me about my FIL knocking down(not just spanking) our 2 yr old son. He told her it hurt him that she told me and that its ok to keep things from me. Mind you, this is coming from a man formed in the church and has led several marriage classes in the church. How can he think this is right?

The problem we have is how to confront my in-laws. We met a deacon about a week ago, and he told us that right now based on their actions my in-laws are in a “dark place” in life and we should pray for them. He also suggested for us to talk with them; however, whenever we talk with them they shut down and it becomes pointless. Whenever my wife asked her Dad not to hit our son, he called her a horrible Mom for not giving him discipline. My wife is thinking of going to a psychologist to emotionally prepare her for confronting them. I have thought about asking a priest to mediate our discussion, but even then, I am not sure it would be of any help. Any help??
 
Wow! Sounds as if this candidate for the diaconate is some piece of work!
Hitting his two-year-old grandson? Asking his daughter conceal it from her husband? And, he doesn’t seem to consider lying a sin…when it’s to his advantage, that is. He doesn’t sound ‘religious’ to me. He’s a controller. And, now that the husband has spoken, it seems that he’s interfering with his daughter’s marriage.
I just hope it all comes to light. He needs to be held accountable for his actions…NOT be put in a position of authority. And, OP and husband, please…don’t leave your children alone with him. If he knocks down a child, his own grandchild, in front of his daughter, what does he do when alone with a child? Or with an adult, for that matter? You should speak to your kids about not keeping secrets from you.
And, if he’s doing the ‘right’ thing, discipline wise and elsewhere…why does it have to be kept secret? The OP should speak to her priest, and get him to recommend a psychologist/counselor. And no one should have to shoulder this responsibility alone.
 
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Legend said:
And, OP and husband, please…don’t leave your children alone with him. If he knocks down a child, his own grandchild, in front of his daughter, what does he do when alone with a child? Or with an adult, for that matter? You should speak to your kids about not keeping secrets from you.
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Yeah. You shouldn’t leave your kids with your in-laws.

However, don’t report him to the seminary/diocese unless a) your wife is 167% on board and willing to deal with the end of the relationship and b) you’re willing to deal with all sorts of embarrassing public blowback. (We live in the age of Facebook and zero privacy.)

Don’t go into this thinking that you could report him and not suffer at all.

The question is–is your wife up to it, and is it worth it to you?

(If anybody says, it ought to be confidential and nothing ought to happen to the OP and her husband, I’d say, sure–but I also ought to have a pony.)
 
Well, you could have told us these pieces of key info earlier 🙂

Ok, I normally don’t like giving advice on the family forum, as we just don’t know enough details, but …
It sounds like you have a father-in-law who wants to be the God Father (as in Michael Corleone) and control his extended family. I have seen this before and I do have some advice. It is a bad situation. So you are focused on what to do about the deacon training perhaps because you are at a loss as how to proceed with the family situation. Focus on the family situation.
First and foremost: end any dependency you and your wife have on your in-laws. If they have loaned you money, pay it back now. If they are supporting your family financially in anyway, end it now. If your wife relies on her mother for baby-sitting or childcare, find an alternative now. Absolutely end all dependency on them. I would be willing to bet some level of dependency is there, as these type of father-in-laws try to orchestrate it to that end. Make sure you wife is completely on board with this and understands that it is important. Do not leave the slightest little thing that he can hold over your wife’s head and imply you guys need them. Establish complete independence. Absolute complete, don’t let your mother in law host the kid’s upcoming birthday party, etc, etc. All this can be done in a relatively civil manner.

If you can do that, you have fought half the battle. Now see them when you choose. Now you and your wife have the confidence to assert yourselves without risking little Johnnie’s catholic school tuition (that comes from a friend of mine who had the same problem), you get the drift.

Don’t think by doing this your father in-law will have a new found respect for you. He won’t. He wants you to be dependent on him. You can do this subtly for a while, but soon he will know what is going on. Prepare for problems at this point.

I know I am making a big assumption here, if I am wrong and your family is not dependent on them in anyway, then just ignore the post.
 
tafan2 said:
It sounds like you have a father-in-law who wants to be the God Father (as in Michael Corleone) and control his extended family. I have seen this before and I do have some advice. It is a bad situation. So you are focused on what to do about the deacon training perhaps because you are at a loss as how to proceed with the family situation. Focus on the family situation.
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tafan2 said:
First and foremost: end any dependency you and your wife have on your in-laws.
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BRAVO!

I agree with literally everything you wrote in your post.
 
Jabcat said:
However, ever since we were married, we have been struggling with my in-law’s inability to let go of the control they once had on their daughter. Even though I have always respected them and always tried to make them happy, they still see me as an outsider (after 17 years) and have told my wife I am not of their own blood and not a part of the family. My policy has always been to stay quiet and let my wife deal with her family. I have been yelled at, put down, and had my faith put into question numerous times by my father-in-law, and never said a word. Unfortunately, neither has my wife. Her upbringing has a lot to do with her not being able to stand up to her parents. A few years ago, she went to a psychologist and discovered that there were a lot of problems with the relationship between her and her parents.

As you can probably gather from the preceding posts, my father-in-law is a very religious man and is currently studying to become a deacon, which should be viewed as a tremendous joyous and blessing, but he has continually used his religious knowledge to manipulate both my wife and myself. He likes to site the Bible passage about obeying your parents to tell my wife she should be obedient to him and not me, and when you try to tell him about leaving your parents to become one, he says that we are reading that passage out of context. For the past few years every time we have a family get together he likes to shame both me and my wife. He likes to tell me that I sin by praying to the Father and not Jesus, because I shame Jesus by not praying directly him. He has also called me a protestant for attending Dave Ramsey with my wife and mocked me for saying that Allah is not our God, which I learned he is not from my parish. It just seems that whatever point of view my wife or I have, is wrong, and he makes up Church doctrine as he goes along.
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Again, is this happening in the US? The point about “Allah” makes me wonder whether this is occurring in another country or if this is a mixed-religion relationship that they are trying to break up (which is irrelevant to the fact that an innocent child is being harmed).

My main question is: why was this man not reported to the police when he knocked down your two-year old? Unless it was by accident, this is child abuse and criminal assault. Is this in the Middle East or Asia, or does he hold a prominent position where the authorities will look the other way? Or is he one of the authorities (like a police officer)? Are you dependent on him for something?

YOU are the father and husband. YOU are responsible for the safety of your wife and children. YOU must defend them, even if it is against family members! Staying quiet has not worked; it has only encouraged more bullying, and it escalated to an innocent child (who looks to YOU for protection) being physically attacked. Bullies only stop when they are stood up to. Otherwise, you are not doing your duty as father of that child. So, step up and start defending your wife and child, even physically if it comes to that. Take some boxing or MMA lessons if that helps.
 
Thanks, I have a very good friend who has fought this type godfather syndrome father-in-law for 25 years. It has been a disaster for his family. The OP has an advantage over my friend because the OP have a strong marriage. My friend’s problem is also more complicated because his wife has an emotional dependency on her father. The results have been disastrous, for them, for their kids. And it took years for my friend to realize exactly what was going on. Even though his fil wanted to control the raising of the children, their lifestyle (no problem if it was beyond their means, help was available), even the houses they would buy to live in, what the kids did after high school, etc. And yes, in-laws who are good Catholics, going to mass almost every day, etc.
I have also seen it in less drastic forms, but it is still bad.

Oh, one more thing to the OP: the bible never says that adult children should obey their parents. Everywhere it says “children obey you parents”, it is apparent that it refers to kids in the context. Adults do not owe their parents obedience, only honor. That’s the only absolute thing we owe our parents according to the bible.
 
Sadly this is happening in the US. We all live close to Houston. I had originally asked my wife to report the incident to the police but never really pursued it. My parents have taught me that if its an issue with my wife’s family let her deal with it.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult for her to deal with her parents because they are continually putting her down. She has no problem standing up to people just her parents.

I have no problem confronting my father in law, but i fear it will end very badly and be worse off for doing it. When I stood up to the brother in law that was sending rude texts to my wife, that ended very badly. After that he has become physically aggressive to my family. Both my father in law and brother in law you could say fall into the typical hispanic macho mentality, which has been difficult to work with.

Both my father in law and brother in laws actions, I believe are a cry for psychological help and prayer. I just don’t know if there is a way to help them and keep the entire family in tact, without putting my wife and kids at risk.
 
Jabcat said:
I just don’t know if there is a way to help them and keep the entire family in tact, without putting my wife and kids at risk.
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I think you and your family need some space from your wife’s family, and it may be necessary to put some physical distance between you. Even an extra hundred miles might give you some much needed privacy and independence.
 
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