Deacon Greys?

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PatienceAndLove

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DH (a Baptist) and I were watching Journey Home a few months back, and a deacon was on, wearing greys like this:
http://www.fadumont.co.uk/acatalog/224a.jpg

And DH wanted to know if all deacons get to wear those. He has a preoccupation with wanting to be able to wear the clerical blacks (🤷). I told him I was unaware of specific deacon clerical wear, other than embroidered polos shirts, and that it was possible that deacons had their own clerical wear. Well, he stated that if that was true, he’d convert and become a deacon, just to wear the cool outfit! (the Spirit moves in mysterious ways!)

Anyway… my question is: do deacons have their own clerical wear, such as the greys pictured above? I had never seen it until the show.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
DH (a Baptist) and I were watching Journey Home a few months back, and a deacon was on, wearing greys like this:
http://www.fadumont.co.uk/acatalog/224a.jpg

And DH wanted to know if all deacons get to wear those. He has a preoccupation with wanting to be able to wear the clerical blacks (🤷). I told him I was unaware of specific deacon clerical wear, other than embroidered polos shirts, and that it was possible that deacons had their own clerical wear. Well, he stated that if that was true, he’d convert and become a deacon, just to wear the cool outfit! (the Spirit moves in mysterious ways!)

Anyway… my question is: do deacons have their own clerical wear, such as the greys pictured above? I had never seen it until the show.
Click to expand...
Permanent, deacons do not generally have clerical wear, that I know of. Transitional deacons, i.e. those becoming priest, might have clerical wear, but I’m not sure on this.

Jim
 
PatienceAndLove said:
DH (a Baptist) and I were watching Journey Home a few months back, and a deacon was on, wearing greys like this:
http://www.fadumont.co.uk/acatalog/224a.jpg

And DH wanted to know if all deacons get to wear those. He has a preoccupation with wanting to be able to wear the clerical blacks (🤷). I told him I was unaware of specific deacon clerical wear, other than embroidered polos shirts, and that it was possible that deacons had their own clerical wear. Well, he stated that if that was true, he’d convert and become a deacon, just to wear the cool outfit! (the Spirit moves in mysterious ways!)

Anyway… my question is: do deacons have their own clerical wear, such as the greys pictured above? I had never seen it until the show.
Click to expand...
Any cleric may wear clerical garb. So yes, a Deacon may wear clerical blacks. If the local bishop allows his clergy to wear other colors, the Deacon may do so.

In addition, the Deacon may also wear a cassock instead.

Note that in some diocese, the bishops have requested that Deacon’s refrain from wearing clerical garb, as to somehow not confuse the faithful. The Deacon still has the right to do so, the bishop cannot order a cleric to give up rights, but almost all of those who live in such diocese comply with their bishop’s request
.
(Seeing how that would be a great teaching moment on the clerical nature of the Diaconate, I personally cannot see why a bishop would want his flock to remain in ignorance, but that’s just me 😉 )

They only two that I know of that make this request are L.A. and Orange, but there may be others.

As Jim noted, ‘permanent’ Deacons are not obligated to wear clerics, and many choose not to, by they do retain the right to do so.
 
So perhaps taps fingers together evily I should appeal to his desire for “cool clerical wear” and tell him that yes, he can wear clerical wear if he converts and eventually becomes a deacon.

Mr. Burns type smile Excellent.
 
Appropriate clerical garb for married deacons outside of liturgy is unclear. The Code of Canon Law exempts them from the requirement to wear clericals. However, some bishops and diaconate vicars have taken this to be giving them the power to forbid married deacons from wearing clericals.

To me, it wouldn’t be beneficial for a married deacon to wear clericals to his secular job, even though, as a deacon, he is to be witnessing to Christ. On the job as a deacon, it would make sense for him to wear a set of clericals, but then there is the potential to confuse him with a priest. These two reasons are the ones most often given by bishops and diaconate vicars who forbid married deacons from wearing clericals.

The concern over misidentification is justifiable. After all, a priest wears black clericals, and a bishop wears a gold chair across his shirt. Even in cassocks, one can easily tell a priest apart from a bishop. There are no specific alterations to identify a deacon.

I’ve always been of the mind that a white or grey clerical shirt would be the answer.

I don’t know if priests are allowed to wear a shirt of a different color than black. The Code only directs them to wear a black suit. Would a grey or white shirt for deacons be a good idea? Only if priests were consistent in wearing a black shirt.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
DH (a Baptist) and I were watching Journey Home a few months back, and a deacon was on, wearing greys like this:
http://www.fadumont.co.uk/acatalog/224a.jpg

And DH wanted to know if all deacons get to wear those. He has a preoccupation with wanting to be able to wear the clerical blacks (🤷). I told him I was unaware of specific deacon clerical wear, other than embroidered polos shirts, and that it was possible that deacons had their own clerical wear. Well, he stated that if that was true, he’d convert and become a deacon, just to wear the cool outfit! (the Spirit moves in mysterious ways!)

Anyway… my question is: do deacons have their own clerical wear, such as the greys pictured above? I had never seen it until the show.
Click to expand...
Well if your husband thinks being a deacon would be neat because of the cool garb, tell him to go for it. If its like the diaconate program in my dioceses, he won’t make it through discernment, if cool clothing is the only motive he has in becoming a deacon. Its tough training!

But who knows, perhaps once he gets there, he’ll hear the receive the real calling and choose it because he wants to serve God…

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well if your husband thinks being a deacon would be neat because of the cool garb, tell him to go for it. If its like the diaconate program in my dioceses, he won’t make it through discernment, if cool clothing is the only motive he has in becoming a deacon. Its tough training!

But who knows, perhaps once he gets there, he’ll hear the receive the real calling and choose it because he wants to serve God…

Jim
Click to expand...
Well… if it is the clerical garb that initially draws him, then perhaps the Spirit is moving him in that direction. However, he is going to have to convert to Catholicism first, and I believe there is a waiting period for convert before being accepted to the deaconate program? And are there young deacons, cause he’s only 22 😃
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Well… if it is the clerical garb that initially draws him, then perhaps the Spirit is moving him in that direction. However, he is going to have to convert to Catholicism first, and I believe there is a waiting period for convert before being accepted to the deaconate program? And are there young deacons, cause he’s only 22 😃
Click to expand...
Sorry, I didn’t catch all the details.

I’m not sure if there’s a time period, that a person has to be a Catholic, before applying. We had a Jewish convert in my class. He made it all the way up to one month before ordination, and decided he didn’t want to be a deacon. It was a 5 year program.🤷

Age requirement in my dioceses is 35 for ordination.

Jim
 
A married man may be ordained a deacon at age 35. Prospective candidates can usually begin formation as early as age 29, depending on the length and the requirements.
 
MusicMan said:
On the job as a deacon, it would make sense for him to wear a set of clericals, but then there is the potential to confuse him with a priest. These two reasons are the ones most often given by bishops and diaconate vicars who forbid married deacons from wearing clericals.

The concern over misidentification is justifiable. After all, a priest wears black clericals, and a bishop wears a gold chair across his shirt. Even in cassocks, one can easily tell a priest apart from a bishop. There are no specific alterations to identify a deacon…
Click to expand...
This is some of the opportunity for education that I was mentioning.

The concept of misidentifcation is not unknown in our Church, it happens with Order priests. For example, there is a Chapter House for the Pallotines in our area. The Chapter House contains both Pallotine Priests and professed Brothers. All of whom wear clerics.

The same is true for the Medicant orders, how exactly could a parishoner in a Fransican run parish denote between Friars who are in Holy Orders, and professed Friars? They all wear the same Fransican cowl.

So really, does anyone think that a Deacon would get anymore upset if a member of the faithful confused him with a priest, anymore than a Brother Fransican would?

Should these bishops mandate that Fransican priests dress differently than Fransican brothers because their faithful cannot tell the difference simply from dress?

No, if the faithful are unsure, they may ask the cleric in question, or if they make the wrong address, the cleric may kindly correct them.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Well… if it is the clerical garb that initially draws him, then perhaps the Spirit is moving him in that direction. However, he is going to have to convert to Catholicism first, and I believe there is a waiting period for convert before being accepted to the deaconate program? And are there young deacons, cause he’s only 22 😃
Click to expand...
Generally there is a waiting period of 5 years before new converts are allowed in the Diaconate program. And, by Canon Law, a married canidate must be at least 35 at the time of Ordination.

So if he converts by the time he’s 30, he should be all set 😉
 
I can’t see deacons getting upset because they’re being confused as priests by wearing the collar in say, the nursing home.

I can see old school Catholic residents of said nursing home making snide, ignorant comments to the deacon for wearing the clerics and confusing *them/I]. A lot of these people have lived through an age where all clergy were celibate, and all they had were bishops and priests. They’re also older and in the nursing home for a reason. It’s a great chance to educate, yes, but it also might be more frustrating for the deacon than it’s worth.

Brendan, I don’t recall if you’ve been ordained or in formation, but perhaps you could speak to such a situation.

There’s also the matter of declericalizing those in orders, and imbuing clerical powers on the laity. Sometimes decisions get made by people with an agenda to keep their power. Deacons wearing collars would be a threat to that power, IMHO.*
 
So, to clarify, if a married man were a deacon, he could walk around in a cassock?

Because that’s definitely a bonus in my mind :yup: haha…
 
MusicMan said:
I

Brendan, I don’t recall if you’ve been ordained or in formation, but perhaps you could speak to such a situation. .
Click to expand...
Not ordained yet. I’m taking some time off from formation as we had the birth of our 5th child in Dec and we’re in the process of moving to a larger house (we close on it in 2 weeks 😃 )
 
Brendan said:
This is some of the opportunity for education that I was mentioning.

The concept of misidentifcation is not unknown in our Church, it happens with Order priests. For example, there is a Chapter House for the Pallotines in our area. The Chapter House contains both Pallotine Priests and professed Brothers. All of whom wear clerics.

The same is true for the Medicant orders, how exactly could a parishoner in a Fransican run parish denote between Friars who are in Holy Orders, and professed Friars? They all wear the same Fransican cowl.

So really, does anyone think that a Deacon would get anymore upset if a member of the faithful confused him with a priest, anymore than a Brother Fransican would?

Should these bishops mandate that Fransican priests dress differently than Fransican brothers because their faithful cannot tell the difference simply from dress?

No, if the faithful are unsure, they may ask the cleric in question, or if they make the wrong address, the cleric may kindly correct them.
Click to expand...
Let’s also not forget that whatever difference in dress Eastern clerics might use to distinguish priests from deacons, to Western eyes they probably all look the same. Then again, to them a deacon is still a sort of Father, so that appellation wouldn’t be totally inappropriate. If I ever become a deacon, I’m wearing a cassock.👍
 
the attire for permanent deacons differs from diocese to diocese, depending on what the bishop asks for. here they wear what passes for formal business attire: polo shirt and slacks, “cowboy formal” white shirt, string tie, jeans and boots, or the cotton dress shirts from Mexico with dress pants.

the “grey” clerical shirt is an optional color, lots of priests where it, or light blue, in the summer. I am told, and have read on this forum, that priests in Europe wear a larger variety of colors in clerical wear than in US, where black is the norm.
 
I share the opinion of those who think clerical dress for deacons is a great idea. I hate to say it, but there is a sort of territorialism and pettiness in the way some preists and bishops view permanent deacons. I am good friends with a priest. According to him, deacons who assert their right to wear clerics are seen as “wannabe priests.” I find that shameful.

The “confusing the laity” argument is utter nonsense. There are seminarians walking around in clerical blacks, years away from ordination. i.e. College students. Yet there are men configured to Christ - members of the sacred hierarchy - literally walking among us, and no one knows who they are. It’s ridiculous.
 
Conciliar said:
I share the opinion of those who think clerical dress for deacons is a great idea. I hate to say it, but there is a sort of territorialism and pettiness in the way some preists and bishops view permanent deacons. I am good friends with a priest. According to him, deacons who assert their right to wear clerics are seen as “wannabe priests.” I find that shameful.

The “confusing the laity” argument is utter nonsense. There are seminarians walking around in clerical blacks, years away from ordination. i.e. College students. Yet there are men configured to Christ - members of the sacred hierarchy - literally walking among us, and no one knows who they are. It’s ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Exactly! I think deacons should be encouraged to wear the grays, or whatever “official” clerical garb they favor.
 
I can’t help but agree as well. I live in a diocese where the majority of the deacons do where a collar when they are in their official ministry capacity of being a deacon. This is similar to seminarians. They usually only wear their collar when they are doing liturgical or ecclesiastical functions. They tend not to just wear the collar to Wal-Mart. (haha)

Most of the deacons here who do wear their collar have black. One deacon prefers white and I’ve seen one wear blue. Most wear black though. They have a pin on their shirt that has a cross with the deaconate stole draped over it. This is a great indicator. An example of this pin is here wadhams.edu/images/pages%20photos/deacon%20pin.jpg

I think if a Deacon wore this pin, there would be no mistaking him at all!
 
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