Deacon in dalmatics

[laszlo]

My wife, who born as Lutheran, was accepted as Catholic last week, so the whole family all get together to celebrate in the 9:30 Mass.

It was ‘English’ mass, the fruit of Vatican II. There was a transitory deacon, a young man, waiting for your ordination to presbiterate, and he assisted in the Mass in dalmatics, like in the good old times.

He proclaimed the Gospel, read the petitions of the faithful, assisted the priest, distributed the communion (we received it kneeling to tongue) and dismissed the people.

The choir chanted the Introit, Gradule, Alleluia, Offertory verse , Communion verse and some motets from the Graduale and Cantuiale. Everybody sung in Latin the Ordinary. From the pew outside of the audible English for the Canon and for the lay lector reading two passages from the Bible, while the celebrant and the deacon sat at the side; there was no real difference from the TLM.

This is the Mass what the fathers of the XXI Ecumenical council dreamed, and hopefully this will be the Mass of the future.

I do not believe that one Confiteor instead of the simplified beginning and conclusion (both like the 1967 Mass) and even the lack of head-covering of some women made any real difference for God who scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, and not the outside forms. The full Church and the long line for confession seems to be more important.

 

[malphono]

It sounds lovely. SJC in Chicago is noted for being in the forefront of the “reform of the reform” movement for the OF, and that’s wonderful. It’s also very very rare: one could probably count on two hands the number of parishes in North America where this is done. (Four hands, maybe, to include the rest of the world.) The fact is that hardly anyone other than people in those parishes (and those who habitually attend Mass at certain abbeys, and even those are rare) has ever experienced it.

 

[TheMc]

My wife, who born as Lutheran, was accepted as Catholic last week, so the whole family all get together to celebrate in the 9:30 Mass.

It was ‘English’ mass, the fruit of Vatican II. There was a transitory deacon, a young man, waiting for your ordination to presbiterate, and he assisted in the Mass in dalmatics, like in the good old times.

He proclaimed the Gospel, read the petitions of the faithful, assisted the priest, distributed the communion (we received it kneeling to tongue) and dismissed the people.

The choir chanted the Introit, Gradule, Alleluia, Offertory verse , Communion verse and some motets from the Graduale and Cantuiale. Everybody sung in Latin the Ordinary. From the pew outside of the audible English for the Canon and for the lay lector reading two passages from the Bible, while the celebrant and the deacon sat at the side; there was no real difference from the TLM.

This is the Mass what the fathers of the XXI Ecumenical council dreamed, and hopefully this will be the Mass of the future.

I do not believe that one Confiteor instead of the simplified beginning and conclusion (both like the 1967 Mass) and even the lack of head-covering of some women made any real difference for God who scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, and not the outside forms. The full Church and the long line for confession seems to be more important.

Sounds wonderful! I love masses like that! Was it celebrated ad orientem?

 

[laszlo]

Sounds wonderful! I love masses like that! Was it celebrated ad orientem?

This is the altar

img170.imageshack.us/img170/470/stpetersjx0.jpg

I give thanks to God for this Church and the Masses.

 

[TheMc]

This is the altar

img170.imageshack.us/img170/470/stpetersjx0.jpg

I give thanks to God for this Church and the Masses.

That is so cool! Here’s a church in my area that I frequent, and often serve at.
picasaweb.google.com/benyanke/FrRickSAdOrientemMass#5476152239321089090

Yes, I’d look better without the freestanding altar, but I know the pastor very well, and (from what I’ve heard) sometime in the next couple of years, it’ll be leaving…

Ad orientem masses is not being used at all his parish masses. Yet…

 

[malphono]

That is so cool! Here’s a church in my area that I frequent, and often serve at.
picasaweb.google.com/benyanke/FrRickSAdOrientemMass#5476152239321089090

Yes, I’d look better without the freestanding altar, but I know the pastor very well, and (from what I’ve heard) sometime in the next couple of years, it’ll be leaving…

Ad orientem masses is not being used at all his parish masses. Yet…

The church is lovely. Judging from the photo, that versus populum altar could easily take on a second life, either as a free-standing ad orientem-friendly altar, or even as a fixed altar, in a side chapel. All it really needs is a pradella.

 

[laszlo]

That is so cool! Here’s a church in my area that I frequent, and often serve at.
picasaweb.google.com/benyanke/FrRickSAdOrientemMass#5476152239321089090
Yes, I’d look better without the freestanding altar, but I know the pastor very well, and (from what I’ve heard) sometime in the next couple of years, it’ll be leaving…
Ad orientem masses is not being used at all his parish masses. Yet…

In our Church the freestanding altar was removed in 2008. So a set of people (mostly from outside the parish wrote a petition to Cardinal George that they have the right to the freestanding altar. A compromise was established, for the Saturday 6PM Mass a table is set, with a big crucifix at the middle, and the priest celebrates the Mass facing that crucifix. After the mass the table is removed again. That is low Mass, but the reverence toward God is the same.

Not the direction is the important, God scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, not the forms.

 

[Remington]

My wife, who born as Lutheran, was accepted as Catholic last week, so the whole family all get together to celebrate in the 9:30 Mass.

It was ‘English’ mass, the fruit of Vatican II. There was a transitory deacon, a young man, waiting for your ordination to presbiterate, and he assisted in the Mass in dalmatics, like in the good old times.

He proclaimed the Gospel, read the petitions of the faithful, assisted the priest, distributed the communion (we received it kneeling to tongue) and dismissed the people.

The choir chanted the Introit, Gradule, Alleluia, Offertory verse , Communion verse and some motets from the Graduale and Cantuiale. Everybody sung in Latin the Ordinary. From the pew outside of the audible English for the Canon and for the lay lector reading two passages from the Bible, while the celebrant and the deacon sat at the side; there was no real difference from the TLM.

This is the Mass what the fathers of the XXI Ecumenical council dreamed, and hopefully this will be the Mass of the future.

I do not believe that one Confiteor instead of the simplified beginning and conclusion (both like the 1967 Mass) and even the lack of head-covering of some women made any real difference for God who scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, and not the outside forms. The full Church and the long line for confession seems to be more important.

What you describe is the Ordinary Form of the Mass. How nice. So you know this Mass has been in worldwide use for decades. It’s not the “Mass of the future.”

 

[TheMc]

In our Church the freestanding altar was removed in 2008. So a set of people (mostly from outside the parish wrote a petition to Cardinal George that they have the right to the freestanding altar. A compromise was established, for the Saturday 6PM Mass a table is set, with a big crucifix at the middle, and the priest celebrates the Mass facing that crucifix. After the mass the table is removed again. That is low Mass, but the reverence toward God is the same.

Not the direction is the important, God scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, not the forms.

Cool!!

 

[CradleCath]

My wife, who born as Lutheran, was accepted as Catholic last week, so the whole family all get together to celebrate in the 9:30 Mass.

It was ‘English’ mass, the fruit of Vatican II. There was a transitory deacon, a young man, waiting for your ordination to presbiterate, and he assisted in the Mass in dalmatics, like in the good old times.

He proclaimed the Gospel, read the petitions of the faithful, assisted the priest, distributed the communion (we received it kneeling to tongue) and dismissed the people.

The choir chanted the Introit, Gradule, Alleluia, Offertory verse , Communion verse and some motets from the Graduale and Cantuiale. Everybody sung in Latin the Ordinary. From the pew outside of the audible English for the Canon and for the lay lector reading two passages from the Bible, while the celebrant and the deacon sat at the side; there was no real difference from the TLM.

This is the Mass what the fathers of the XXI Ecumenical council dreamed, and hopefully this will be the Mass of the future.

I do not believe that one Confiteor instead of the simplified beginning and conclusion (both like the 1967 Mass) and even the lack of head-covering of some women made any real difference for God who scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, and not the outside forms. The full Church and the long line for confession seems to be more important.

You are blessed. I attended the OF. of the Mass from 1969-2007 & never ONCE prayed the Mass you describe. It must have been quite an experience.

 

[OraLabora]

You are blessed. I attended the OF. of the Mass from 1969-2007 & never ONCE prayed the Mass you describe. It must have been quite an experience.

I am lucky, Mass where I attend is exactly like that, except French for the EP, readings, intercessions and basic responses. Propers from the Graduale, ordinary as well. And ALL is chanted, even the readings

And I was at another abbey in France a few weeks ago that did the same thing.

A pity though, that one has to look long and hard to find this.

 

[Spirithound]

Not the direction is the important, God scrutinizes the hearts and kidneys, not the forms.

What is the significance of the kidneys?

 

[MarkThompson]

What is the significance of the kidneys?

Answer.

 

[Lapey]

Just wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone would respond to the OP.

I would like to know how many other dioceses out there have deacons who regularly wear dalmatics. Our director of deacons here discourages deacons from wearing dalmatics, unless it matches the celebrants chasible exactly. This possibility doesnt exist in many parishes here in our diocese, so most deacons wear a stole over an alb only.

So what does the deacon at your parish wear?

 

[Brendan]

Just wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone would respond to the OP.

I would like to know how many other dioceses out there have deacons who regularly wear dalmatics. Our director of deacons here discourages deacons from wearing dalmatics, unless it matches the celebrants chasible exactly. This possibility doesnt exist in many parishes here in our diocese, so most deacons wear a stole over an alb only.

So what does the deacon at your parish wear?

Our parish has two ‘permanent’ deacons and it is rare to see them NOT wearing their dalmatics at Mass.

I was in the Diaconate program myself for 3 years ( until God granted us with child #5 and now #6). Dalmatics were encouraged.

 

[Lapey]

Our parish has two ‘permanent’ deacons and it is rare to see them NOT wearing their dalmatics at Mass.

I was in the Diaconate program myself for 3 years ( until God granted us with child #5 and now #6). Dalmatics were encouraged.

Congratulations on #5 & 6!!! If He wants you in the permanent diaconate, you will hear that knock again, that I can assure you. I am in my 5th year of formation 23 days away from the laying on of hands! Our diaconate ordination retreat starts tomorrow, ordination on December 11th.

As I stated, our deacon leader discourages the use, I don’t know why. The dalmatic is the proper vestment of the deacon. As long as it is compliance with the liturgical season and colors match the celebrant’s vestments, why would the deacon not wear them? I understand that many parishes and deacons who cannot afford them, but if the parish buys them or the deacon has them, why not wear them?

 

[Brendan]

Congratulations on #5 & 6!!! If He wants you in the permanent diaconate, you will hear that knock again, that I can assure you. I am in my 5th year of formation 23 days away from the laying on of hands! Our diaconate ordination retreat starts tomorrow, ordination on December 11th.

As I stated, our deacon leader discourages the use, I don’t know why. The dalmatic is the proper vestment of the deacon. As long as it is compliance with the liturgical season and colors match the celebrant’s vestments, why would the deacon not wear them? I understand that many parishes and deacons who cannot afford them, but if the parish buys them or the deacon has them, why not wear them?

Thanks!

When #5 came along, my wife decided that she wanted in the pews helping out, so I stepped back for a bit.

#6 is due on Christmas Day, so it will be a few more years until I’m back in the program.

Best wishes and prayers on your upcoming Ordination!!

 

[AlabamaCatholic]

Sounds like a Mass well said. Of course, there is nothing wrong with women following St. Paul’s admonition to cover their heads in Church, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the product of fifteen centuries of organic liturgical development. I happen to think the second Confiteor before receiving Communion is very valuable. If you are anything like me then sinful (hopefully just venial, lol) thoughts can creep into your mind even during Mass, and that second Confiteor rids our souls of those venial sins and makes us more open to all the graces our Lord wants us to receive in Communion.

 

[CradleCath]

Sounds like a Mass well said. Of course, there is nothing wrong with women following St. Paul’s admonition to cover their heads in Church, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the product of fifteen centuries of organic liturgical development. I happen to think the second Confiteor before receiving Communion is very valuable. If you are anything like me then sinful (hopefully just venial, lol) thoughts can creep into your mind even during Mass, and that second Confiteor rids our souls of those venial sins and makes us more open to all the graces our Lord wants us to receive in Communion.

The form in the 1962 Roman Missal (in Latin) is longer and is said twice, first by the priest in the following form, then by the altar server, who replaces the words “et vobis, fratres”, “et vos, fratres” (and you, brethren) with “et tibi, pater” and “et te, pater” (and you,** Father**).

In Other words, in the TLM. that I attend, the Confetior is prayed once for the forgiveness of the sins of the priest & once for the sins of the members of the congregation. Both are prayed before the priest even goes to the altar. Somehow to me, that makes the priest more like me…a sinner.

An English translation (unofficial)
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to you, brethren: that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word and deed: through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Saints, and you, brethren, to pray for me to the Lord our God.

 

[TheMc]

The church is lovely. Judging from the photo, that versus populum altar could easily take on a second life, either as a free-standing ad orientem-friendly altar, or even as a fixed altar, in a side chapel. All it really needs is a pradella.

I’m sure they would, but the thing is, at that church, there is no side chapels! There’s no more space! It’s actually a pretty small church. I do concur the freestanding altar is very nice though…