Deacons and Permanent deacons

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Godric2

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I read in a thread here that there are no permanent deacons in the Philippines. If thats true I wonder how come?

I mean is God saying some countries have permanent deacons and others dont.

Is it true some countries have this ministry and some dont?

An image of Mary for may: Mama Mary
 
It simply means the bishops of the Philippines have not re-instituted the permanent diaconate there. That’s all it is.
 
Godric2 said:
I read in a thread here that there are no permanent deacons in the Philippines. If thats true I wonder how come?

I mean is God saying some countries have permanent deacons and others dont.

Is it true some countries have this ministry and some dont?

An image of Mary for may: Mama Mary
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Mine had the program and then canceled it after poorly forming people and ordaining theologically and morally unsound people. They have finally reinstituted it and I think no one showed up…but following the current trend over the last 50 years im not surprised.
 
The title of this thread is misleading. There is only one order of deacons, be it transitional or permanent. The practical conditions faced by these two different forms of the diaconate may differ somewhat, but the diaconate is still the dicaonate either way.
 
Godric2 said:
I read in a thread here that there are no permanent deacons in the Philippines. If thats true I wonder how come?

An image of Mary for may: Mama Mary
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It is true.
porthos11 said:
It simply means the bishops of the Philippines have not re-instituted the permanent diaconate there. That’s all it is.
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Not only that. Since Philippines is a growing Catholic country with less priests (many parishes in the rural provinces have only one priest and a population of that parish is around 100 000-200 000) it is better not to re institute it because more priests are still needed
 
GoGoDiego said:
It is true.

Not only that. Since Philippines is a growing Catholic country with less priests (many parishes in the rural provinces have only one priest and a population of that parish is around 100 000-200 000) it is better not to re institute it because more priests are still needed
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I don’t understand this thinking. They are different ministries, different vocations, and not in competition with each other. One would think the permanent diaconate would be of great help in the face of insufficient numbers of priests.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
I don’t understand this thinking. They are different ministries, different vocations, and not in competition with each other. One would think the permanent diaconate would be of great help in the face of insufficient numbers of priests.
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One might think that. But in my opinion the opposite is true.
 
There are 43,195 permanent deacons in the world. Roughly 18,000 of those live in the US. Which means roughly 42% of the world’s deacons come from a country containing only about 6% of the worldwide Catholic population. All that to say that the American experience of the diaconate is not representative of the Church at large. The ordination (and subsequent use) of deacons in a particular diocese or region is determined largely by the perceived need for specifically diaconal ministry.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
I don’t understand this thinking. They are different ministries, different vocations, and not in competition with each other. One would think the permanent diaconate would be of great help in the face of insufficient numbers of priests.
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In the US, men seeking ordination to the diaconate alone are often married college graduates who have had successful careers and families that are raised or nearly raised. They are not destined to be admitted to the priesthood, so they often pay for their own seminary education out of their own pockets. This is not a model that is going to work everywhere. Even here, the financial and family sacrifices required are prohibitive for some would-be candidates. There is far more involved in the decision than having the personal and spiritual attributes required.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
There are 43,195 permanent deacons in the world. Roughly 18,000 of those live in the US. Which means roughly 42% of the world’s deacons come from a country containing only about 6% of the worldwide Catholic population. All that to say that the American experience of the diaconate is not representative of the Church at large. The ordination (and subsequent use) of deacons in a particular diocese or region is determined largely by the perceived need for specifically diaconal ministry.
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We have a lot more married college graduates established in their careers who frequent the sacraments and also have the financial means to put themselves through the seminary and still have enough savings left over for their retirement needs. We lead the world in college attainment back in the 1970s, so we have more older Catholic men with professional degrees than most other countries. That preparation that puts them on a better footing for the academic side of their formation than men with careers that put different demands on them over the years.

The experiment of the “permanent diaconate” is relatively recent. I would think that the jury of bishops is still very much out on whether the experiment has been a success or not. Remember that much of what deacons do is not liturgical in nature, and could be done by laymen who don’t take a vows that deacons do and do not have to go through the formation that deacons do. (Yes, when a married man is ordained a deacon, he normally takes a vow that he will not re-marry if his wife dies.)
 
I’m not sure that it’s representative of the US but what I see here in Canada is that permanent Deacons are found in dioceses with close access to theology schools or seminaries.

For example, in all of Atlantic Canada’s 10 dioceses/archdioceses, the one with the most deacons is the Archdiocese of Halifax/Yarmouth where we find the Atlantic School of Theology.

The most up to date listing I can find shows 52 permanent deacons spread across the 4 Atlantic Provinces:
4 dioceses have 0
2 dioceses have 1
1 archdiocese has 1
1 archdiocese has 2
1 diocese has 3
1 diocese has 7 (This diocese is close to Halifax and the A.S.T.)

Then the Archdiocese of Halifax & Yarmouth has 37.
 
GoGoDiego said:
Not only that. Since Philippines is a growing Catholic country with less priests (many parishes in the rural provinces have only one priest and a population of that parish is around 100 000-200 000) it is better not to re institute it because more priests are still needed
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This is an incorrect way of thinking.

The diaconate is not a booby-prize for those who missed their calling to become a priest. The diaconate is not a lite version of the priesthood nor a stepping stone to the priesthood.

The diaconate is a separate, distinct and unique vocation in its own right.

Confusing the unique vocation to the diaconate with the priesthood is one of the reasons why there are not more deacons.

-Tim-
 
As others have noted, many bishops around the world have simply not elected to reinstitute the permanent diaconate. Many Canadian dioceses have no permanent deacons as well. The U.S. is a bit of an anomaly in this regards. My archdiocese (Vancouver) only instituted it’s permanent diaconate program a few years ago- so we are starting to see them now, but it’s still very new.
 
As mentioned elsewhere, the diaconate is one. There are certainly deacons in the Philippines, and in every country, for that matter. It is true that some countries may not have a formation program for those aspiring to the diaconate in its own right, or at least they might not have one at the present time.

When the Council Fathers at Vatican II restored the diaconate, they envisioned that it would be mostly embraced in developing countries, particularly in Africa and parts of Asia.

This has not been the case, as the vast majority of permanent deacons are from the US (almost half), and western Europe.

The diaconate was largely suppressed by members of the presbyterate assuming ministries that were diaconal in nature, not the other way around. This was an issue of disunity in the Church primarily motivated by ego and politics, it was never a theological issue.

Some Catholics mistakenly think that the two lower orders of the hierarchy are competitive, whereas they are actually symbiotic.

The thought that vocations to the diaconate compete against the presbyterate is also mistaken. The priestly shortage is caused by materialism.

While some bishops might use deacons to help fill sacramental needs because they don’t have enough priests, that is not what the diaconate was instituted for. It’s just one of many methods bishops utilize to address pastoral concerns. Like all such methods there are pros and cons to each approach. Some bishops are importing priests from Africa, India and other areas where there are greater numbers of priests, for example. Language barriers and cultural differences are raised with these approaches.

Every diocese and every country needs deacons - the Church would have have created a three-fold order of ministers if there wasn’t a need. The three degrees of sacred orders, were pre-figured in the three-fold ministry of the Old Covenant (Levites, priests, and the high priest).
 
Deacon Chris,

I appreciate your comments, but I think they are overly simplistic as to your understanding as to why the Diaconate is not fuller in Africa or Asia.

EasterJoy was FAR closer to the mark in the higher availability of college educated men. Men who themselves have the financial resources to take the time of study required for the Diaconate and how live in dioceses that can also provide the necessary education.

I am familiar with both, I was in Diaconal formation myself for 3 years, until our 5th child came along, and my wife and I, together with the Cardinal, decided to step back. We have since had a 6th child, so will contine to step back. But even so, I completed the academic studies along with my class, on my own dime (so to speak)

Even with a diocese covering academic costs, as you are probably well aware, there is still significant expenditures out of your own pocket

I am a regular visitor to a rural diocese in Tanzania. I am also fortunate to stay in the residence of the local bishop when I stay there. Needless to say, we have had quite a number of indepth conversations on many topics, including the Diaconate.

It is not resistance by any presbyters, nor any false understanding that vocations to the Diaconate will negatively impact vocations to the priesthood that prohibits the ordination of Deacons.

I can assure you, he would LOVE to have Deacons in every village, and his priest would fully appreciate the assistance.

But simple finances that prevents him, and the lack of education in his diocese. When his diocese has a majority who have not even graduated secondary school, let alone college, where is the necessary stepping stones for Theological studies? What men can leave their farms, their trades to spend months at the seminary in one of the larger cities, every year for several years. Is that a wise use of very limited resources, when lay catechists can be trained to carry out many of the service functions of the Deacon. He can give strong lay catechical training to a dozen men for the cost of putting one through Diaconal training. And that is presuming that the man he puts through already has some college education, which is a big stretch.
 
Godric2 said:
I read in a thread here that there are no permanent deacons in the Philippines. If thats true I wonder how come?

I mean is God saying some countries have permanent deacons and others dont.

Is it true some countries have this ministry and some dont?

An image of Mary for may: Mama Mary
Click to expand...
In my American diocese we are very familiar with permanent deacons. But the deacons fit into a larger context - family finances, church finances, lay ministry, priestly ministry, training opportunities (which are ample and affordable here) and the whole ecclesiastic tradition. We are talking about a very different culture with that country, a very different church situation, different kinds of challenges and opportunities. I am resisting the (American) temptation to pontificate to Catholics in a very different situation from my own.
 
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