Deacons and Subdeacons

[hamburglar]

Are the deacon and subdeacon ordained preists, or are they ordained into that certain position. If I find three priests who know the TLM, can I get them to celebrate a Solemn High Mass, with one of them being the priest, one being the deacon, and one being the subdeacon?

Also, what are the roles of the deacon and subdeacon?

 

[LRThunder]

Here is my very limited understanding of deacons and subdeacons regarding the Tridentine Latin Mass.

Pre-Vatican II, there were no permanent deacons, at least not since the early Church. Also, there were no concelebration of Mass like we have today. So, if more than one priest “took part” in Mass, the others would vest and serve as deacon and subdeacon. Do I have that correct?

 

[edward_george]

Are the deacon and subdeacon ordained preists, or are they ordained into that certain position. If I find three priests who know the TLM, can I get them to celebrate a Solemn High Mass, with one of them being the priest, one being the deacon, and one being the subdeacon?

Also, what are the roles of the deacon and subdeacon?

The deacon and subdeacon were indeed ordained to those orders, as they are the steps to the presbyterate. A priest may indeed act in those roles in the Solemn High Mass; one priest assisted by two others vested as deacon and subdeacon could celebrate a Solemn High Mass as you say.

The deacon and subdeacon perform a number of significant functions during the Solemn High Mass. Notably, they process with the acolytes to the North side of the Church to proclaim the Gospel (symbolic of the bringing of the light of the Gospel of Christ to the unchurched pagans who lived in the regions north of Rome). Also, they assist at the altar during the Eucharistic Prayers.

For more information about the Solemn High Mass, consult these sources:

sanctamissa.org/EN/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn_High_Mass

-ACEGC

 

[geovet]

Are there any subdeacons in use today?

George

 

[bpbasilphx]

Are there any subdeacons in use today?

In the Eastern churces, yes.

 

[NetNuncio]

Orders, such as the FSSP and the Institute of Christ the King that celebrate the Extraordinary Form exclusively, ordain sub-deacons.

However, the role of sub-deacon is generally filled by a priest or layman (without the maniple).

Adam

 

[edward_george]

Men who are instituted to the office of Acolyte may serve as subdeacons, and in some places are even granted the title of subdeacon, per the Pauline Motu Proprio which abolished the minor orders.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6MINORS.HTM

-ACEGC

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Are there any subdeacons in use today?

Orders, such as the FSSP and the Institute of Christ the King that celebrate the Extraordinary Form exclusively, ordain sub-deacons.

In the Eastern churces, yes.

While we know the Eastern churches have subdeacons, and that some Latin bishops ordain them, the canonical status of the Latin subdeacons remains, I believe, at least somewhat doubtful.

Something that does not seem doubtful is that they are not clerics in the Latin Church, as the CIC explicitly says the clerical state is now received with diaconal orders. Furthermore, according to Paul VI, Latin subdeacons no longer exist. It seems questionable, then, whether present-day ordinations to the subdiaconate have any juridical effects (I raise these questions because my canon law professor flat out told me they have none; i.e., when it comes down to it, it was a pretty rite). I would suspect that if the proper law of the traditional societies contains certain rights or privileges of subdeacons, then this would confirm their juridical reality, but barring these it would seem the answer to the question of the Latin subdeacon would be “yes, we have them, but they don’t exist.”

 

[preV2tradcath]

Orders, such as the FSSP and the Institute of Christ the King that celebrate the Extraordinary Form exclusively, ordain sub-deacons.

However, the role of sub-deacon is generally filled by a priest or layman (without the maniple).

Adam

That is also my understanding. The solemn high Masses that I have either atttended or seen videos of had priests taken the part of the deacon and subdeacon. Wouldn’t it be a necessity due to the small number of deacons and subdeacons?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Before VII deacons and sub-deacons were only in that role for a brief period prior to ordination to the priesthood. For our wedding priests filled the role of priest and deacon, and my high school classmate, who was a deacon awaiting ordination, filled the role of sub-deacon. I think that was the only time I ever saw a non-priest in the role. [Admittedly, I attended few solemn high masses.]