Deacons and the sign of the cross

[hmm]

At mass, the deacons sometimes bless the congregation/kids/water at the alter (during the liturgy of the Eucharist) with the sign of the cross… and I’m wondering if that’s okay and/or when it became okay. I thought that only priests and bishops were allowed to do that.

Thanks!

 

[PhilotheaZ]

By virtue of their ordination, deacons are able to give many types of blessings, including blessings of people and of religious objects. There is no problem with what your deacon was doing.

 

[hmm]

thank you!

 

[John_Lilburne]

The Book of Blessings is an official liturgical book. It explains how a deacon can do blessings, as are given in the book. But then it makes the point: “But whenever a priest is present, it is more fitting that the office of presiding be assigned to him and that the deacon assist by carrying out those functions proper to the diaconate.” (Book of Blessings, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1875-8. It is n. 18(c), page xxviii).

But the Rite of Acceptance is described in the liturgical book “Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults”. It has: “55. … Then the celebrant makes the sign of the cross over all together, as a cross is traced by a sponsor or catechist on the forehead of each candidate.” And a little later under heading “Signing of the Other Senses”: “56. The signing is carried out by the catechists or sponsors. (If required by special circumstances, this may be done by assisting priests or deacons.)” (From The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, pages 58 - 59).

 

[FrDavid96]

At mass, the deacons sometimes bless the congregation/kids/water at the alter (during the liturgy of the Eucharist) with the sign of the cross… and I’m wondering if that’s okay and/or when it became okay. I thought that only priests and bishops were allowed to do that.

Thanks!

No, a deacon should not be blessing anyone “during Mass” since the priest is necessarily there, only the priest should be giving a blessing. (I’m writing about a “regular” Mass, not a wedding Mass for example when a deacon MIGHT bless someone/something or what John quoted in the last post for another example).

I wonder what you mean by “during the liturgy of the Eucharist” as well. When exactly is this happening? And what is happening? There are no blessings during that part of the Mass, so I’m a little confused as to what is going on there.

 

[hmm]

I wonder what you mean by “during the liturgy of the Eucharist” as well. When exactly is this happening? And what is happening? There are no blessings during that part of the Mass, so I’m a little confused as to what is going on there.

I might have gotten the title wrong as far as the “liturgy of the Eucharist”, but last Sunday the deacon made the sign of the cross over the water right before he put a drop in the chalice. This is happening as both the priest and deacon are pouring the wine into the cups at the altar. Also, the deacon has made the sign of the cross over the children right before he sends them to sunday school. It’s not always the deacon, but sometimes.

Hope that helps clarify what I mean Fr. David (I presume you’re a priest )

 

[FrDavid96]

I might have gotten the title wrong as far as the “liturgy of the Eucharist”, but last Sunday the deacon made the sign of the cross over the water right before he put a drop in the chalice. This is happening as both the priest and deacon are pouring the wine into the cups at the altar. Also, the deacon has made the sign of the cross over the children right before he sends them to sunday school. It’s not always the deacon, but sometimes.

Hope that helps clarify what I mean Fr. David (I presume you’re a priest )

OK. **Now **it’s making sense.

Actually, the priest should be the one to make the sign of the cross over the water at the offertory–the deacon should hold the cruet out for the priest do to this. This is no longer required. Realy, the deacon shouldn’t be doing this (this is “not a big deal” and I personally wouldn’t even mention it to a deacon unless it came up on conversation or if I were responsible for his formation in some way), but it’s very very tiny compared to what I was imagining when I read your first post. I was imagining him blessing a vessel of water in order to sprinkle people (like the children) with that blessed water during the Eucharist.

As for the deacon blessing the children before sending them off, that’s fine–in itself, however it brings up a different issue and there’s now a question of why are the children leaving in the first place?
The children should be present for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. There might be a seperate service of the Word for the children before they join (or re-join) the Mass for the Lit of the Eucharist.

 

[hmm]

There might be a seperate service of the Word for the children before they join (or re-join) the Mass for the Lit of the Eucharist.

Yes that’s it exactly. Before the homily they leave and come back before the liturgy of the Eucharist (though I still have to look up what exactly is happening during that time). In the way the services are structured, they come back during the offering, if that makes sense.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[FrDavid96]

Yes that’s it exactly. Before the homily they leave and come back before the liturgy of the Eucharist (though I still have to look up what exactly is happening during that time). In the way the services are structured, they come back during the offering, if that makes sense.

Thanks for your reply!

Got it!

“they come back during the offertory” explains it just fine. OK, now I understand it (I’m fairly certain at least). If the deacon is the one “dismissing” them, then yes for him to give them a blessing at that time would be fine–I’d even go further and call it appropriate.

Now, that brings up my next question. Since they’re only gone for the homily (and Creed and petitions), how long is the preaching? Or how short is the children’s service? This part is only to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[hmm]

Now, that brings up my next question. Since they’re only gone for the homily (and Creed and petitions), how long is the preaching? Or how short is the children’s service? This part is only to satisfy my curiosity.

The homily is usually between 10 and 15 minutes long at this church. Basically…ooh. I just remembered. The kids are dismissed before the first reading because the deacon/priest explains to them what they should be paying attention to in their little class. The children’s class is about the readings or theme of the mass.

So yeah. they’re gone for a good amount of time. Probably about 20 minutes. But then, this mass is rather large, so it’s only about a fifth.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[FrDavid96]

The homily is usually between 10 and 15 minutes long at this church. Basically…ooh. I just remembered. The kids are dismissed before the first reading because the deacon/priest explains to them what they should be paying attention to in their little class. The children’s class is about the readings or theme of the mass.

So yeah. they’re gone for a good amount of time. Probably about 20 minutes. But then, this mass is rather large, so it’s only about a fifth.

Hope that makes sense.

Makes sense. It’s also what the Church says should be done. At least it’s what the Church says “might-possibly-maybe-we-think-perhaps-would-work” The Directory for Masses with Children is without a doubt the most vague document of the Church which I have ever read (but that’s for a different thread).

Thanks for explaining!

PS Just for laughs: In your next reply, will the dismissal be moved again to an earlier point?

 

[hmm]

PS Just for laughs: In your next reply, will the dismissal be moved again to an earlier point?

:blushing::blushing::blushing: hahaha

 

[hilde_the_dog]

Makes sense. It’s also what the Church says should be done. At least it’s what the Church says “might-possibly-maybe-we-think-perhaps-would-work”

That is funny Father David. this whole thread makes me a little nervous because April 25 I begin my aspirancy phase (phase 1) of the pemanent diaconate. I’ve been accepted by the Bishop now reading the things here takes on a whole new light. I’ll do my best not to become a subject of threads.

 

[FrDavid96]

FrDavid96;5045311:

Makes sense. It’s also what the Church says should be done. At least it’s what the Church says “might-possibly-maybe-we-think-perhaps-would-work”

That is funny Father David. this whole thread makes me a little nervous because April 25 I begin my aspirancy phase (phase 1) of the pemanent diaconate. I’ve been accepted by the Bishop now reading the things here takes on a whole new light. I’ll do my best not to become a subject of threads.

Congratulations and thank you!

Just remember always to follow the liturgical laws of the Church, whether they’re in the Sacramentary, the Lectionary, the ritual books, or whatever else. These always trump whatever we might experience (or even be “taught” by someone not in the capacity of a teaching authority of the Church). This thread also expresses that what we think we might be hearing at first, might not be what is actually happening. Clarifications from the OP helped us to arrive at the conclusion here, but in “real life” things can be more complicated.

 

[Aramis]

Just as a side note:
Only Roman Church Deacons give blessings; the deacons of the 22 Churches of the Eastern Rites, as a general rule, do not give blessings.

(As for vague documents, read the CCEO canons on deacons…)

 

[Feanor2]

Interesting,

I didn’t think deacons could bless anything. THey can’t bless objects can they- I thought not.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Interesting,

I didn’t think deacons could bless anything. THey can’t bless objects can they- I thought not.

Latin Rite deacons can most certainly bless sacramentals (such as medals and rosaries), and can perform other blessings as permitted under the rubrics of and in the circumstances described in the Book of Blessings, is what I have always understood.

 

[FrDavid96]

Latin Rite deacons can most certainly bless sacramentals (such as medals and rosaries), and can perform other blessings as permitted under the rubrics of and in the circumstances described in the Book of Blessings, is what I have always understood.

Correct. Canon law explicitly says this. There are some “conditions”, but deacons certainly may bless people and objects.