Dead or Alive?

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Singinbeauty

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Revelation 20:11-15:
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead.**** And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
I need everyone’s thoughts and what they’ve been taught on this. I keep hearing differing opinions on what happens to us when we die. Some say we go into a deep sleep to be awaken at the end of time (which the passage above strongly suggests is true) and some say we go to purgatory then to Heaven while some still say that we go either straight to Heaven or Hell.

I grew up with the Soul Sleep theory and have to admit that the above passage makes a strong point for it. It could be that the opinion of Soul Sleep and going straight to Heaven or Hell intertwines because when you go to sleep and then wake up you are not aware of the time that has passed.

Anyways, I thought I would open this up for discussion though PLEASE remember your P’s and Q’s… be nice and don’t get personal. 👍
 
Some souls might just go straight to Heaven; others go through Purgatory, some go straight to Hell.

PS: I didn’t read your post, but went ahead select the choices.
But in the last judgment day, there are only Heaven and Hell.
 
Purgatory, the place, period or process of purifying is a necessary step…

Soul sleep is somehting not explicit in scripture [yet many sola scriptura adherants woud by in]…

Last Sunday’s Gospel is an examplefrom scripture that does not support “soul sleep”…the Rich Man and Lazarus. The Rich Man who enjoys many blessings in life dies and is found to be in a place [state] of torment, fire burning, yet knows thirst…Lazarus, who knew only torment in life dies and is found to be in the bosom of Abraham, a place of blessing.

Now the Rich Man can see Lazarus and Abraham and recognize them. Now Lazarus he knew in life but not Abraham. In truth Lazarus could have no real knowledge of what Abraham looked liked. H also understands that tthe place where Abraham and Lazarus abide is better than where he is in torment…He can see from his state to theirs.

He [the Rich Man] is also able to enter into conversation with them and they are able to respond back. The Rich Man shows concern for those not yet dead, and asks for intersession on their behalf…

Add this to the Gospel account of the tombs opening up and those long dead [being observed and recognized] walking during the crucifixtion, and the vision of Moses and Elijah [recognized by Peter, James and John - again when they would have no real knowledge of what they looked like] on the mount of transfiguration…

I would go with the church’s position of the immediate determination of the state of your soul and a decision about where you will go…purgatory if you are saved - to be cleansed of the last vestiges of sin - “as nothing unclean can enter into heaven” or a torment like Lazarus [if your soul is lost] until the final judgement…
 
Some souls might just go straight to Heaven; others go through Purgatory, some go straight to Hell.

PS: I didn’t read your post, but went ahead select the choices.
But in the last judgment day, there are only Heaven and Hell.
This is also my understanding. I’ll just add one thing for clarification. On the last day we will have the general judgment. Those who died before the last day, their bodies will rise up to meet their souls. Then everyone goes to either Heaven or Hell. I’m guessing this is probably where the confusion lies.
 
I need everyone’s thoughts and what they’ve been taught on this. I keep hearing differing opinions on what happens to us when we die. Some say we go into a deep sleep to be awaken at the end of time (which the passage above strongly suggests is true) and some say we go to purgatory then to Heaven while some still say that we go either straight to Heaven or Hell.

I grew up with the Soul Sleep theory and have to admit that the above passage makes a strong point for it. It could be that the opinion of Soul Sleep and going straight to Heaven or Hell intertwines because when you go to sleep and then wake up you are not aware of the time that has passed.

Anyways, I thought I would open this up for discussion though PLEASE remember your P’s and Q’s… be nice and don’t get personal. 👍
Private Judgement:

This is what I was taught in the Catholic Church regarding private judgement (the moment you die):
  1. If you die as an unrepentent sinner, and God will judge you according to what you have done, and he is displease, he will cast the sinner into heaven.
  2. If die in the state of grace, free of any mortal sin. You will be rewarded heaven. The good Lord will say, Come, my good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of My Master’s house."
  3. If he dies in venial sin, he will have to pay for the sins that is due to him. He is saved, but as through fire. He will go to purgatory, but his final end, he will be in heaven.
General Judgment:

Everyone will be judge both the good and bad. They will judge according to what they have done on earth. The souls in purgatory will go to heaven and purgatory will ease to exist. The unrepentent sinner will go to heaven, and those who remain faithful, will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Those who already dead in grace prior to judgment will have their judgement affirmed (I think Jimmy Akin made an answe to this but I’m sure what his exact words were). They will also be reunited with their physical body.

Those who die sinless will have their body glorified like Jesus Christ.
 
I need everyone’s thoughts and what they’ve been taught on this. I keep hearing differing opinions on what happens to us when we die. Some say we go into a deep sleep to be awaken at the end of time (which the passage above strongly suggests is true) and some say we go to purgatory then to Heaven while some still say that we go either straight to Heaven or Hell.

I grew up with the Soul Sleep theory and have to admit that the above passage makes a strong point for it. It could be that the opinion of Soul Sleep and going straight to Heaven or Hell intertwines because when you go to sleep and then wake up you are not aware of the time that has passed.

Anyways, I thought I would open this up for discussion though PLEASE remember your P’s and Q’s… be nice and don’t get personal. 👍
well, no one knows exactly what happens to our souls after death, that is determined by God. Its either heaven, purgatory, or hell. depending on how God judges you. if He deems you don’t go to heaven, but yet your not going to hell, then your soul goes to purgatory, after being cleansed, it goes to heaven. if your deemed unworthy of either heaven or purgatory, you go to hell, and there aint no comin’ back from that either. if your deemed worthy of heaven, then that is where you go.

no matter what God decides, it is decided. heaven, purgatory or hell. its up to Him. one can live a good clean moral life, attend Mass, and live as faithfully as they can to God. the ultimate decision is up to Him, not us. so there is no point speculating.
simple as that. live your life for God, be charitable, avoid sin, go to confession, live a moral upstanding life. and leave the rest in God’s hands because its in His hands whether you like it or not.
 
Hi

I think it has been explained well in Quran.

I quote here from The Holy Quran : Chapter 39: Al-Zumar:

[39:42] Verily, We have revealed to thee the Book comprising all truth for the good of mankind. So whoever follows guidance, follows it for the benefit of his own soul; and whoever goes astray, goes astray only to its detriment. And thou art not a guardian over them.
**[39:43] Allah takes away the souls of men at the time of their death; and of those also that are not yet dead, during their sleep. Then He withholds those against which He has decreed death, and sends back the others till an appointed term. In that, surely, are Signs for a people who reflect. **
[39:44] Have they taken intercessors beside Allah? Say, 'Even if they have no power over anything and no understanding?
[39:45] Say, ‘All intercession rests with Allah. To Him belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. And to Him, then, shall you be brought back.’

Unquote

Thanks
 
I think your biggest source of confusion is that many people confuse the terms spirit and soul. Many people treat them as synonyms and use the almost interchangeably. They are two connected but different things. First off every one has a physical life and as result of it we have five senses and human intelligence.
Also god gave every human a spirit. When the physical life is combined with the spirit it produces the third state of being the soul. the soul can best be described as the product of the union of the physical and spirit life , At physical death the spirit return to god who gave it. Because of this the soul enters a state of inactivity aka sleep until the spirit is rejoined with a new body at the resurrection
 
I chose Purgatory, but if a Mind is made up, they could suffer any one of those choices that you gave in the Poll. If a person believed in soul-sleep, then they might for awhile, or if they are convinced of only going to hell, that could happen. Seems like each Death is on a case-by-case basis, that no one option would apply to all people.
 
Dead or Alive?
Alive!
And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
Matthew 22:31-32
 
I need everyone’s thoughts and what they’ve been taught on this. I keep hearing differing opinions on what happens to us when we die. Some say we go into a deep sleep to be awaken at the end of time (which the passage above strongly suggests is true) and some say we go to purgatory then to Heaven while some still say that we go either straight to Heaven or Hell.

I grew up with the Soul Sleep theory and have to admit that the above passage makes a strong point for it. It could be that the opinion of Soul Sleep and going straight to Heaven or Hell intertwines because when you go to sleep and then wake up you are not aware of the time that has passed.

Anyways, I thought I would open this up for discussion though PLEASE remember your P’s and Q’s… be nice and don’t get personal. 👍

I always took for granted that there was a Heaven, a Hell, & that the dead were “aware” of their condition.​

That some people believed a doctrine of “soul sleep” was a surprise - though I can see that it’s possible to make a case for it. As to Purgatory - I believe it refers to something real, but I’m not sure what; other things are much clearer. 🙂

FWIW, I think the only real solution as to which doctrine if any is right, is Christ - the Bible can be read in more than one way.
 
Originally Posted by Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
:


I guess I also thought of the dead in Christ, although never heard it called soul sleep? but no matter. Now I know where new agers get it. :rolleyes:

I was speaking to the bro-in-love last week and said well you go straight to Heaven or hell. He said that was impossible it had to be asleep in Christ because going straight anywhere omits the Great White Throne judgement.

Now alot of posts saying straight to Heaven, hell, purgatory and even sleep. But no one actually speaking to the quote above. Save for, AngelsAmongUs mentioned it.

What about this scripture? how does it work with going straight to any of the 4? Also, is this the Bema Seat mentioned or is that something else.??
 
I voted for other, because according to scriptures as I understand them, at least one group of souls don’t go into a “soul sleep” and that group would be martyrs for the faith.

Re 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Here, the final judgment has not yet occurred.

“Beheaded” in the verse, probably indicates all those who were martyred for the Faith, regardless of method. It includes all martyrs throughout time, not just the ones murdered during the rign of the anti-christ.

“They reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” In other places of Scripture, “thousand” is not to be taken literally. Sometimes it is symbolic for “a lot” and other times it is symbolic for “completeness.” So, at least some of those who have died reigned with Christ in heaven prior to the end of the world.

Some of the dead, I believe will not reign with Christ until after the figurative thousand years is over. These would be those who did not sin seriously enough to enter hell, but are not yet purified for heaven. This would be those who are stuck in purgatory until the final judgment.

And, I believe that some souls do go to Hell and are suffering there, even as we speak.

In the above verse, notice the order of things: the martyrs came to life first, then they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. When I continue reading this passage, I see that after the symbolic thousand years is finished (completed) it says that “Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.”

So, this scene takes place just before the anti-christ begins to reign. The martyrs are obviously not in soul sleep, they’re described as reigning in heaven with Christ, waiting to be vindicated at the final Judgment, which has not occurred yet.

I’m murkey on the what happens to those in purgatory though. Are these souls really alive in the same sense of those in heaven? They’re not living on earth or in heaven . . . and they’re not living in hell . . . they’re in-between. They are still part of the Church – the Church suffering, but is it possible that they are considered as being in a dead state, simply because they are not allowed to be fully united with Christ until they’ve paid the last farthing? Honestly, I don’t understand where the souls of Purgatory fit in to all of this. But, I think this verse is showing that the martyrs are not asleep and fully aware of what is happening to them.

In summary, my take on this is: those in heaven, waiting with Christ for a thousand years, are the souls of all the martyrs throughout history. In this verse, the final judgment has not yet taken place yet, so while these martyrs are in heaven, they are not yet united with their bodies . . . and they won’t be until after the reign of the anti-christ is over – when Christ comes to deliver Final Judgment upon Mankind.

I want to touch on something related . . . I believe that the first resurrection is of the soul only. This is what happens to people today when they die–their bodies die and are buried in the gournd, but their souls continue on and go to purgatory, or rise to God in Heaven or fall into the pit. The final resurrection is when Christ raises everyone’s bodies from their graves and re-unites them with their souls. This will be the last day of earth as we know it–Judgment Day.

So, I believe some souls go straight to heaven, some go to purgatory and some go straight to hell. At the end of the world, purgatory will cease to exist and it will be heaven or hell for everybody.
 
I believe in a common holding area like the “abode of the dead,” where all the dead await final judgment. Based on the particular judgment, you will either experience the joys of paradise, or the pain of hades. Any necessary purification occurs during this time…After the final judgment, one either goes to heaven or hell for eternity…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Alive!
And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
Matthew 22:31-32
I voted for other, because according to scriptures as I understand them, at least one group of souls don’t go into a “soul sleep” and that group would be martyrs for the faith…

I agree and would add the following from scripture:

Enoch and Elijah taken to heaven body and soul.

Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration.

Hebrews 12:22-24
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

Rev 6:9-10
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

Rev 4:10-11
the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing, “Worthy art thou, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for thou didst create all things, and by thy will they existed and were created.”

Scripture shows people alive, well, and awake in heaven. I don’t think scripture supports soul sleep.
 
I believe the perfect examples were given by Jesus, the Author of our Salvation; by Paul and by John the Revelator:

Luke 23:43
And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” (remember that Jesus had not yet rose from the dead-the thief was still under the Old Covenant) Peter would later give the keys out freely to those who would not only believe but obey, Acts 2:38-41.


and then Paul’s words-as inspired by the Holy Spirit:

2 Corinthians 12:4
was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.


and finally, John’s words-as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 2:7
’ He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’


…o.k., so Paradise is it or torments in Hades…I believe you must have been covered in the Blood of the Lamb to be dead to sin, otherwise, you share the “Rich Man’s” fate. 😃
 
…In summary, my take on this is: those in heaven, waiting with Christ for a thousand years, are the souls of all the martyrs throughout history. In this verse, the final judgment has not yet taken place yet, so while these martyrs are in heaven, they are not yet united with their bodies . . . and they won’t be until after the reign of the anti-christ is over – when Christ comes to deliver Final Judgment upon Mankind.

I want to touch on something related . . . I believe that the first resurrection is of the soul only.

That is not a resurrection - it sounds more like survival, at most​

This is what happens to people today when they die–their bodies die and are buried in the gournd, but their souls continue on and go to purgatory, or rise to God in Heaven or fall into the pit. The final resurrection is when Christ raises everyone’s bodies from their graves and re-unites them with their souls. This will be the last day of earth as we know it–Judgment Day.

So, I believe some souls go straight to heaven, some go to purgatory and some go straight to hell. At the end of the world, purgatory will cease to exist and it will be heaven or hell for everybody.
 
I voted…“Other, please explain”.

It matters none at all…what will happen…will happen…if our souls sleep at death and are raised in the resurrection…we won’t know it…we will “sleep” one minute…and the next be in the Presence…if God and the Saints are outside time and space, their involvement of our lives here is not bound by time and space…so no matter what one believes…and what actually takes place…isn’t important…an ‘importance’ that is of no importance is not important.

Here and now is what is IMPORTANT…we are called to change our world we live in…the next will take care of itself…it’s like fretting how many angels dance on the head of a pin…it doesn’t matter as there is nothing useful that kind of information brings to the HERE AND NOW.

Jesus is said to have stated he came to bring us life…and more abundantly…not in some far off “never never land” but in the Divine Now. If there are saints and angels that effect oru live now…great…but where they are in time and space is of little improtance…they just “are” as is God.
 
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