Dead pets (dog) interceding for one in Heaven?

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With regard to the thread title, I can just imagine the scene in heaven…

God: Who will intercede here for their owners?

Dog: ohmygosh yes yes my master was so wonderful he fed me and gave me goodies and i love him so much and he was so wonderful and tummy rubs yes ohmygosh and chew up his slippers i was so bad but he was so good squeeeee!

God: OK, thanks. [ticks off name on clipboard]. How about you?

Goldfish: Oh, hey, hi there!

God: Hi. What about you?

Goldfish: Oh, I’m great! Fantastic! You?

God: Um, great, thanks. But I mean to say, are going to intercede for your owner?

Goldfish: My what?

God: Your owner. The woman who fed you and kept your water clean.

Goldfish: [squints and furrows – very impressive for a creature without eyelids or brows] My…owner…Hmmm…[gazes off into distance]

God: [after a pause] …Well?

Goldfish: [looks up] Oh, hey, hi there!

God: [sighs] I’ll get back to you. How about you? Your owner?

Cat: [stretches luxuriously] …Um, who, again?

God: Your owner. Joe Bleau, 56 Windy Poplars, Lincoln, NE?

Cat: [grooming, pauses, resumes grooming] Not ringing a bell.

God: Your human. Comforted you, petted you, played with you, loved you, fed you…

Cat: Oh, can-opener-guy. … What about him?

God: Are you going to intercede for him?

Cat: Um, why?

God: So he can get out of Purgatory early and be with you here in heaven.

Cat: Hmmm. [considers] Can I have my rubber mouse instead?
 
Rosebud77 said:
Seriously. we ALL need every day and in every matter, to keep our eyes on Jesus. on Scripture, on the Catechism and avoid some vague quasi- spiritual people and ideas.

To keep watch on our emotions and attachments and to care for other people so that they are less likely to need critters so obsessively

To care for and respect critters for what they are, our earthly friends. Some of which nourish us physically and build our physical cells,

But remembering the teachings and actions of Jesus who lived His earthly life among critters… and used them as we are to use them… Not a pet dog or cat anywhere…
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Yes

This is a balanced view.

As for me, I am more worried about me making it to Heaven than seeing cats and dogs there.
 
Rosebud77 said:
DREAMS? Is that what this is all about ? Dreams? Oh dear! Dreams are figments of your innate wishes or junk that happened during your day. I have really bizarre dreams but they are not from God and some are so real I have to shake myself They are just dreams not divine revelations,
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My personal belief in animals having an afterlife does not boil down to this dream. I only see this particular dream as a reinforcement of something I had already believed in. I do, however, believe that dreams can come from God. I would say that 99.9% of our dreams are of our own making. But many scriptures do show God speaking through dreams.

There’s :
  • Genesis 20:1-7 Abimelech took Sarah into his harem, but God sent him a dream telling him not to touch Sarah because she was Abraham’s wife.
  • Genesis 28:10-17 Jacob fled Esau’s anger, and on his journey he had his famous dream of a ladder reaching to heaven on which angels ascended and descended. In this dream Jacob received God’s promise that Abraham’s blessing would be carried on through him.
  • Genesis 37:1-11 Joseph is one of the most famous dreamers, and one of the most famous dream-interpreters, in the Bible. His first recorded dreams are found in Genesis 37. They showed through easily deciphered symbols that Joseph’s family would one day bow to him in respect. His brothers didn’t appreciate the dream and in their hatred sold Joseph into slavery.
  • Genesis 40 While in prison Joseph interpreted some dreams of Pharaoh’s cupbearer and baker. With God’s guidance, he explained that the cupbearer would return to Pharaoh’s service, but the baker would be killed.
  • Genesis 41 Pharaoh himself had a dream which Joseph interpreted. God’s purpose was to raise Joseph to second-in-command over Egypt and to save the Egyptians and the Israelites from a horrible famine.
  • Judges 7:12-15 The pagan enemies of Israel had a divinely inspired dream. God told Gideon to sneak into the enemy camp at night, and there in the outposts of the camp, Gideon overheard an enemy soldier relate a dream he had just had. The interpretation, from another enemy soldier, mentioned Gideon by name and predicted that Israel would win the battle. Gideon was greatly encouraged by this revelation.
  • I Kings 3:5 It was in a dream that God gave Solomon the famous offer: “Ask what you wish Me to give you.” Solomon chose wisdom.
  • Matthew 1:20 & 2:13 Joseph would have divorced Mary when he found out she was pregnant, but God sent an angel to him in a dream, convincing him that the pregnancy was of God. Joseph went ahead with the marriage. After Jesus was born, God sent two more dreams, one to tell Joseph to take his family to Egypt so Herod could not kill Jesus and another to tell him Herod was dead and that he could return home.
  • And Acts 2:17 "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
With the completion of the Bible, God does not have to use dreams and visions as much as He did before. That is not to say that He cannot or does not; God can communicate with us however He chooses. But when we have a decision to make, our first stop should always be the Bible, not a dream.
 
I think that this entire thread should have ended with those posts that answered the OP’s main original question: Should he discuss this matter with his friend who had lost his pet.

I think that your original post, Rosebud, was one of the best:
Rosebud77 said:
A while ago on a dog forum there was a long long thread started by a man who lost his dog. His overwhelming and yes, “unhealthy” attachment to the dog had taken over his entire life. and he was all but suicidal. “all but” as the forum members rallied round , listened, let him vent and rant and repeat the same laments over and over again and gradually his posts became calmer and fewer.

It made very painful reading.

This was not and is not a religious thing. It is a bereavement issue and needs treating as such,. so please, stay away from any religious ideas and let him vent and rant if he needs to.

That is the kindest thing anyone can do and thus the one most of Jesus
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And a few other posts, including mine, advised him not to discuss it.

But then this thread turned theological because some were adamant that there will be no animals in heaven. And the others, while saying that no one can know this for sure, were only asking them to prove this. But no “proof” came. And the posters who believe animals will be in heaven continued to say that no one can know for sure, but also provided scripture, not as definite proof that there will be animals in heaven, but only to cast doubt on the “definitely not” position.

And so on and on this thread has continued. And sometimes it got comical (which my pictures above were supposed to be…… The mass with the pets was for a good cause—not the pets—but for the people the pets are helping and serving. Yes, people first, always. )

All these Animal Threads are the same, and when I see them, I think, “Oh no, not another one!”
I don’t think anyone wants to elevate animals above their station. And you’re right: Jesus comes first and foremost in everything. It does boil down to Only Him. (“For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.” ) But for some reason, many people need to discuss this and CAF is always changing with new members all the time, so this topic comes up often. I wish we could just leave the answer to this question as, “no one has positive proof either way” . That would stop all of this.

So I’m left with no anger, no disrespect, just a prayer for peace to us all.
 
Autumn_Smoke said:
My personal belief in animals having an afterlife does not boil down to this dream. I only see this particular dream as a reinforcement of something I had already believed in. I do, however, believe that dreams can come from God. I would say that 99.9% of our dreams are of our own making. But many scriptures do show God speaking through dreams.

There’s :
  • Genesis 20:1-7 Abimelech took Sarah into his harem, but God sent him a dream telling him not to touch Sarah because she was Abraham’s wife.
  • Genesis 28:10-17 Jacob fled Esau’s anger, and on his journey he had his famous dream of a ladder reaching to heaven on which angels ascended and descended. In this dream Jacob received God’s promise that Abraham’s blessing would be carried on through him.
  • Genesis 37:1-11 Joseph is one of the most famous dreamers, and one of the most famous dream-interpreters, in the Bible. His first recorded dreams are found in Genesis 37. They showed through easily deciphered symbols that Joseph’s family would one day bow to him in respect. His brothers didn’t appreciate the dream and in their hatred sold Joseph into slavery.
  • Genesis 40 While in prison Joseph interpreted some dreams of Pharaoh’s cupbearer and baker. With God’s guidance, he explained that the cupbearer would return to Pharaoh’s service, but the baker would be killed.
  • Genesis 41 Pharaoh himself had a dream which Joseph interpreted. God’s purpose was to raise Joseph to second-in-command over Egypt and to save the Egyptians and the Israelites from a horrible famine.
  • Judges 7:12-15 The pagan enemies of Israel had a divinely inspired dream. God told Gideon to sneak into the enemy camp at night, and there in the outposts of the camp, Gideon overheard an enemy soldier relate a dream he had just had. The interpretation, from another enemy soldier, mentioned Gideon by name and predicted that Israel would win the battle. Gideon was greatly encouraged by this revelation.
  • I Kings 3:5 It was in a dream that God gave Solomon the famous offer: “Ask what you wish Me to give you.” Solomon chose wisdom.
  • Matthew 1:20 & 2:13 Joseph would have divorced Mary when he found out she was pregnant, but God sent an angel to him in a dream, convincing him that the pregnancy was of God. Joseph went ahead with the marriage. After Jesus was born, God sent two more dreams, one to tell Joseph to take his family to Egypt so Herod could not kill Jesus and another to tell him Herod was dead and that he could return home.
  • And Acts 2:17 "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
With the completion of the Bible, God does not have to use dreams and visions as much as He did before. That is not to say that He cannot or does not; God can communicate with us however He chooses. But when we have a decision to make, our first stop should always be the Bible, not a dream.
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Father John Hardon S.J, said that if a dream was truly from God. the person would know that for SURE such as in Joseph’s dream!!! Very rare has God spoken to man in a dream!!! God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
Father John Hardon S.J, said that if a dream was truly from God. the person would know that for SURE such as in Joseph’s dream!!! Very rare has God spoken to man in a dream!!! God Bless, Memaw
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I agree with that, and I don’t think it negates what I’ve said.
IF on the rare occasion God speaks to us in a dream, we know it’s from him.
 
Rosebud77 said:
Memaw gave you this way back, and honestly some of this obsession now is bordering on the occult where no one here should be walking.

Please read back.

And forget the old words in foreign languages that have been misinterpreted to suit strange folk and which mean not what you are saying they mean.
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Memaw provided nothing certain. Why do you want to keep them out whe it was the Lord who created them. They belong to him. Let God decide.
 
One possibility, also an Old Testament statement on the immortality of the human soul, can be found in the book of Job. When God allowed Satan to take away all Job’s possessions, Satan did so. When Job passed the test, by remaining faithful to God, God said He would double all the goods that were taken away. Land, home, livestock and everything else were provided.
Except for one category. He had ten sons and three daughters. All were killed. But, God didn’t give him twenty sons and six daughters. He gave him the amount he had before.
This suggests that the offspring were not permanently annihilated. He now had his new children with him, and would see the others in heaven.
I love pets, and would love to be wrong. But, his livestock were doubled …it implies that they are gone forever. Maybe a sort of soul made from the love between them,is a possibility.
But, it seems quite clear that there is a difference between humans and animals in the afterlife. I’m sorry if someone else said this, as I only read the first page. But I did want to give this example.
But, we shouldn’t be too firm in correcting people who just lost a pet. God understands, and so should we. I will try to read more of this thread, when I have more time.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Memaw provided nothing certain. Why do you want to keep them out whe it was the Lord who created them. They belong to him. Let God decide.
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You don’t call the Catechism of the Catholic Church “certain”??? It’s not matter of “keeping them out” but Gods Will. God Bless, Memaw
 
Legend said:
One possibility, also an Old Testament statement on the immortality of the human soul, can be found in the book of Job. When God allowed Satan to take away all Job’s possessions, Satan did so. When Job passed the test, by remaining faithful to God, God said He would double all the goods that were taken away. Land, home, livestock and everything else were provided.
Except for one category. He had ten sons and three daughters. All were killed. But, God didn’t give him twenty sons and six daughters. He gave him the amount he had before.
This suggests that the offspring were not permanently annihilated. He now had his new children with him, and would see the others in heaven.
I love pets, and would love to be wrong. But, his livestock were doubled …it implies that they are gone forever. Maybe a sort of soul made from the love between them,is a possibility.
But, it seems quite clear that there is a difference between humans and animals in the afterlife. I’m sorry if someone else said this, as I only read the first page. But I did want to give this example.
But, we shouldn’t be too firm in correcting people who just lost a pet. God understands, and so should we. I will try to read more of this thread, when I have more time.
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I do understand when one looses a pet. Over the years I have lost many. A dog we had as a child saved my life. My older sister used to 'conduct" a funeral, procession and all, for our pets when they died, Growing up on a farm we had many. She never once told us they went to heaven. Nor did our Mother who was a very knowledgeable Catholic.
The beloved German Shepherd I have now gives a low howl whenever she hears a siren. And she hears it long before I do. so I always know to say a Hail Mary, even the ones I never actually hear as they don’t come my way. Every morning on my way out the door ( on my way to Mass), I always say "Good morning Mariah, and I sing, “They call the wind Mariah.” She must like it cus she doesn’t howl when I do. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
You don’t call the Catechism of the Catholic Church “certain”??? It’s not matter of “keeping them out” but Gods Will. God Bless, Memaw
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You are trying to make it say something that it does not say. It does not say only the human person has an immortal soul. It says only the human person “God has willed for its own sake”.

1703 Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul, the human person is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake.” From his conception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

The spiritual and immortal soul of the human person is affirmed but that does not mean 'Only" the human person continues to live. But “only” the human person is “willed for its own sake” That says nothing regarding the destination of animals.

What does “only creature” mean? It is from Gauduium et Spes
Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, “that all may be one. . . as we are one” (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God’s sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself.

It has nothing to do with animals but rather our own responsibility of self giving.
We can understanding the order of things in a way animals cannot. We have free will.
We can understand with our intellect and enjoy freedoms but we then also have moral obligations that animals do not.

1706 By his reason, man recognizes the voice of God which urges him “to do what is good and avoid what is evil.” Everyone is obliged to follow this law, which makes itself heard in conscience and is fulfilled in the love of God and of neighbor. Living a moral life bears witness to the dignity of the person.
.

And so our experience, whether in this life or the next is different from animals. They do not understand as we do nor have the responsibilities we do. That does not necessarily exclude them. It only limits their understanding. We share this world with them even though we have different souls with different purposes.

You are trying to make the Catechism say something that it does not say.

Peace of Christ be with you.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
You are trying to make it say something that it does not say. It does not say only the human person has an immortal soul. It says only the human person “God has willed for its own sake”.

1703 Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul, the human person is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake.” From his conception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

The spiritual and immortal soul of the human person is affirmed but that does not mean 'Only" the human person continues to live. But “only” the human person is “willed for its own sake” That says nothing regarding the destination of animals.

What does “only creature” mean? It is from Gauduium et Spes
Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, “that all may be one. . . as we are one” (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God’s sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself.

It has nothing to do with animals but rather our own responsibility of self giving.
We can understanding the order of things in a way animals cannot. We have free will.
We can understand with our intellect and enjoy freedoms but we then also have moral obligations that animals do not.

1706 By his reason, man recognizes the voice of God which urges him “to do what is good and avoid what is evil.” Everyone is obliged to follow this law, which makes itself heard in conscience and is fulfilled in the love of God and of neighbor. Living a moral life bears witness to the dignity of the person.
.

And so our experience, whether in this life or the next is different from animals. They do not understand as we do nor have the responsibilities we do. That does not necessarily exclude them. It only limits their understanding. We share this world with them even though we have different souls with different purposes.

You are trying to make the Catechism say something that it does not say.

Peace of Christ be with you.
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NO I am NOT, but maybe you are . Read 1703 over carefully, and please don’t try to tell me that “eternal beatitude” means many things!!! Also read1709, especially ’ Having matured in grace, the moral life blossoms into eternal life in the glory of heaven.
Throughout the whole Section One, I don’t believe it even mentions animals,God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
NO I am NOT, but maybe you are . Read 1703 over carefully, and please don’t try to tell me that “eternal beatitude” means many things!!! Also read1709, especially ’ Having matured in grace, the moral life blossoms into eternal life in the glory of heaven.
Throughout the whole Section One, I don’t believe it even mentions animals,God Bless, Memaw
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IMHO–neither the catechism, nor the Bible–neither are written for animals. Man is the important one. Why would the Bible or the Catechism devote long sections to the fate of animals in eternity? The chapter your quote 1703 comes from–the chapter is entitled “MAN: THE IMAGE OF GOD”. The whole section is about man. It has nothing to do with animals at all. So how can this be proof that there will be no animals in the afterlife?

Why would God go into a huge scenario about animals or tell us exactly how they were created? He hasn’t done this: so the conclusion has to remain the same: this is a matter of opinion only. So why be so adamant that there is absolutely no afterlife for them?

God gave life to all. This life belongs to him. Who are we, that we know the mind and plan of God so intricately that we can say we know exactly what the afterlife will hold for every single creature that God has ever created?
 
IMHO–neither the catechism, nor the Bible–neither are written for animals. Man is the important one. Why would the Bible or the Catechism devote long sections to the fate of animals in eternity? The only portion in the catechism which seems to concern animals is 2415-2418. These only speak about their role on earth and man’s responsibility and care for them and to them.

The chapter that teaching # 1703 comes from–the chapter is entitled “MAN: THE IMAGE OF GOD”. The whole section is about man. It has nothing to do with animals at all. So how can this be proof that there will be no animals in the afterlife?

Why would God go into a huge scenario about animals or tell us exactly how they were created? He hasn’t done this: so the conclusion has to remain the same: this is a matter of opinion only. The catechism does not give us an exact answer, or even directly speak on this subject, so why be so adamant that there is absolutely no afterlife for them?

God gave life to all. This life belongs to him. When God hasn’t even directly revealed all these things to mankind, who are we, that we know the mind and plan of God so intricately that we can say we know exactly what the afterlife will hold for every single creature that God has ever created?

Thanks for reading my bit 🙂
 
Rosebud77 said:
A while ago on a dog forum there was a long long thread started by a man who lost his dog. His overwhelming and yes, “unhealthy” attachment to the dog had taken over his entire life. and he was all but suicidal. “all but” as the forum members rallied round , listened, let him vent and rant and repeat the same laments over and over again and gradually his posts became calmer and fewer.

It made very painful reading.

This was not and is not a religious thing. It is a bereavement issue and needs treating as such,. so please, stay away from any religious ideas and let him vent and rant if he needs to.

That is the kindest thing anyone can do and thus the one most of Jesus
Click to expand...
👍
 
Autumn_Smoke said:
IMHO–neither the catechism, nor the Bible–neither are written for animals. Man is the important one. Why would the Bible or the Catechism devote long sections to the fate of animals in eternity? The only portion in the catechism which seems to concern animals is 2415-2418. These only speak about their role on earth and man’s responsibility and care for them and to them.

The chapter that teaching # 1703 comes from–the chapter is entitled “MAN: THE IMAGE OF GOD”. The whole section is about man. It has nothing to do with animals at all. So how can this be proof that there will be no animals in the afterlife?

Why would God go into a huge scenario about animals or tell us exactly how they were created? He hasn’t done this: so the conclusion has to remain the same: this is a matter of opinion only. The catechism does not give us an exact answer, or even directly speak on this subject, so why be so adamant that there is absolutely no afterlife for them?

God gave life to all. This life belongs to him. When God hasn’t even directly revealed all these things to mankind, who are we, that we know the mind and plan of God so intricately that we can say we know exactly what the afterlife will hold for every single creature that God has ever created?

Thanks for reading my bit 🙂
Click to expand...
I agree. I don’t think G-d tells us everything about heaven or earth, let alone His own nature. If He did, we would not properly understand it anyhow.
 
Memaw said:
Throughout the whole Section One, I don’t believe it even mentions animals,God Bless, Memaw
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Exactly, as melzerboy states, it is a section devoted to humans. So why assume what it does not say.

Peace be with you.
 
So once again we have some people assuming that they know because it doesn’t mention it in the Bible…sounds just like Protestants when they question Catholic beliefs…incidently…the Bible never mentions the Bible neither…so should we ignore that…some just like to get the last word…lol:D
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Exactly, as melzerboy states, it is a section devoted to humans. So why assume what it does not say.

Peace be with you.
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Well them, show me one that is devoted to animals!!! Your right, why assume what it does NOT say!! God Bless. Memaw
 
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