Dealing with an effiminate son

[LaSainte]

While I am sure it happens I don’t think Western women suffer nearly as much from being accused of masculine behavior as men do from being accused of female behavior. Both sexes get teased about having the appearance of the opposite sex but that tends not to happen to women until they are well into adulthood and are (hopefully) more emotionally mature.

My point is that this is a mainly male problem at younger ages.

I wouldn’t say that. I distinctly remember certain girls being referred to as “dykes” as early as the 7th grade.

 

[LaSainte]

I, too, spent most of my time with the boys. I still think that even a tomboy ought to be taught how to wear women’s clothing without looking like a cat in a bonnet: how to put on hose without putting yourself into a sweat, how to hold your body so it looks as if you realize you are in fact wearing a dress and not still catching the fourth inning at a softball game, how to walk in heels so you don’t look like you’re a ten year old caught playing in Mommy’s closet. You don’t have to like all that, you ought not be forced to do it when it is not obligatory, but you still need to be taught how to do it competently. You never know when that competence is going to be wanted or needed.

Grace is not necessarily something that can be learned. I was in gymnastics for years, and there was a girl on our team who, while an extremely talented acrobat, simply could not be taught to be graceful, no matter how much ballet she took. I imagine that for extremely feminine men, the same can be said to a certain degree. Any attempts to appear “masculine” are going to appear awkward and forced. It really is just the way some people are, and that’s ok. This girl by the way is now a happy mother of 2!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Grace is not necessarily something that can be learned. I was in gymnastics for years, and there was a girl on our team who, while an extremely talented acrobat, simply could not be taught to be graceful, no matter how much ballet she took. I imagine that for extremely feminine men, the same can be said to a certain degree. Any attempts to appear “masculine” are going to appear awkward and forced. It really is just the way some people are, and that’s ok. This girl by the way is now a happy mother of 2!

My best female friend, who is very girly and feminine cannot pull off heels, despite 12 or so years of practice. She looks like an angry trucker lumbering around in heeled boots.

I am also impossibly clumsy, uncoordinated, and not graceful. I like dresses, but because of those issues there’s about a 30-40% chance of an embarrassing catastrophe happening every time I put one on. Fingers crossed for my wedding

 

[Della]

Grace is not necessarily something that can be learned. I was in gymnastics for years, and there was a girl on our team who, while an extremely talented acrobat, simply could not be taught to be graceful, no matter how much ballet she took. I imagine that for extremely feminine men, the same can be said to a certain degree. Any attempts to appear “masculine” are going to appear awkward and forced. It really is just the way some people are, and that’s ok. This girl by the way is now a happy mother of 2!

And some people simply aren’t limber and agile. My dh and I both took Tai Chi classes. Mind, I was 63 and he 56 while trying to learn this form of martial arts. I’ve always been limber, so it wasn’t all that difficult for me. But my poor dh was as stiff as a board and just couldn’t bend his knees or extend his arms the way the form requires. The poor man simply isn’t built for that kind of movement. But he’s very good at dodgeball, of all things. He had cancer as a toddler, so his mother wouldn’t let him play contact sports, or indeed any sport in which he could be injured–he defied her on some things, like all kids, which is why he’s good at dodgeball. Anyway, he never learned the kinds of skills most other guys in his milieu did. He’s just not a “sporty” kind of guy. The point being, as you cited, not everyone is cut out for the same kind of physical activity.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My best female friend, who is very girly and feminine cannot pull off heels, despite 12 or so years of practice. She looks like an angry trucker lumbering around in heeled boots.

I am also impossibly clumsy, uncoordinated, and not graceful. I like dresses, but because of those issues there’s about a 30-40% chance of an embarrassing catastrophe happening every time I put one on. Fingers crossed for my wedding

 

[SMHW]

I wouldn’t say that. I distinctly remember certain girls being referred to as “dykes” as early as the 7th grade.

You are probably right. But that didn’t seem to happen in my class (at least that I can remember.) In my experience the girls who did well in sports were admired by the other girls (and I think by most of the boys) so there was something to counteract any name calling that might have occurred. The girls who were awkward at sports just didn’t participate in them (other than whatever was required for P.E.) and no one thought the worse of them for it.

But maybe that’s because I went to a Catholic grade school through grade eight and went to an all girls high school.

 

[Jessup]

I have 3 sons (and 2 daughters). We home school. My middle son 12 yo is effeminate, and while sheltered to a degree from the outside world, the gay label has been applied to him by some scouts and sadly his elder brother. I have banned his elder brother for a month from any computer use and I won’t stand for this talk in my home.

I also was somewhat effeminate growing up and questioned my own sexual identity in my teens and 20’s. My question to you is how can I make my son more manly, and not have him question his sexuality to the degree that I did.

He is not into sports - nor am I. He is doing well in school and is emotionally behind his peers. He still likes to play with toys and is nowhere near as mature as his older brother (13 yo).

We are working as a family on his physical fitness merit badge.

I would appreciate any thoughts you can offer me.

Does he have low self esteem? I went through a lot of the same things when I was in my early 20's because I've had a baby face my whole life, and was treated differently because of it. I still am up until this day. Until I was 26 I weighed about 118lb. Nothing manly about that. I would say that 12 years old is still pretty young yet to worry, but I found a lot of eye opening masculinity in working out, and stopped feeling guilty about being competitive. Is he introverted? really good at math and science? He might just need to find masculinity in his own gifts and talents.

 

[HouseArrest]

I think these points are important.

But even if the father is projecting his own problems, and even if the older son is being a jerk, there are enough other people out there who will make life miserable for the younger son that it is still useful for him to learn coping skills. My guess is that this boy is going to be teased for running awkwardly even if the “gay” appellation is never used.

We all have handicaps. Some are innate. Some are developmental. Some are physical handicaps. Some are personality handicaps. And no one should tease or berate another for a handicap but plenty of people will do so anyway. If an individual wants to enjoy the benefits that come from using his handicapped self then it behooves the individual to overcome or work around the handicap. There is a practical limit to the accommodations that can be expected from others.

One of the most important (although regrettable) lessons we teach our children is that we need to treat others well but we can’t always depend on others to do the same for us. It is prudent for us to avoid looking like a target if we don’t want to be a target.

Wow, that makes so much sense.

 

[EasterJoy]

Grace is not necessarily something that can be learned. I was in gymnastics for years, and there was a girl on our team who, while an extremely talented acrobat, simply could not be taught to be graceful, no matter how much ballet she took. I imagine that for extremely feminine men, the same can be said to a certain degree. Any attempts to appear “masculine” are going to appear awkward and forced. It really is just the way some people are, and that’s ok. This girl by the way is now a happy mother of 2!

Yes. Competence is enough. With regards to running, I only mean to learn to run with elbows bent instead of straight and other similar gross basics, not making them do work they don’t want to do until they gain a graceful stride. I’m talking about the equivalent of learning to keep your elbows off the table. I don’t believe in trying to force someone into excellence where it is neither natural for them or something they desire to work on that hard.

 

[EasterJoy]

My best female friend, who is very girly and feminine cannot pull off heels, despite 12 or so years of practice. She looks like an angry trucker lumbering around in heeled boots.

I am also impossibly clumsy, uncoordinated, and not graceful. I like dresses, but because of those issues there’s about a 30-40% chance of an embarrassing catastrophe happening every time I put one on. Fingers crossed for my wedding

Some people are built so that the physical habits that lead to the more typical results are totally unnatural to them or even impossible for them–maybe they lack flexibility in the foot, for instance, so that shoes with any significant heel forces their leg into the wrong angle for walking–while others need someone to point out where their technique is going wrong, so they can practice in a way that will lead to mastering the desired movement.

 

[LaSainte]

Yes. Competence is enough. With regards to running, I only mean to learn to run with elbows bent instead of straight and other similar gross basics, not making them do work they don’t want to do until they gain a graceful stride. I’m talking about the equivalent of learning to keep your elbows off the table. I don’t believe in trying to force someone into excellence where it is neither natural for them or something they desire to work on that hard.

True. I was a gymnast for 10 years and also a gymnastics coach as well. Shockingly, some people DO NOT know how to run! It seems so elementary to me because as a child, we were always outside playing, but today, kids spend a LOT of time indoors and never really get the hang of it. Running comes naturally to some, but I had girls who had to do running drills every single day, and they STILL looked like they were skipping through a field of daisies. Some people really have to work at it.

 

[Tish2213]

Playing sports does not make one manly. Not all “manly” men like sports.

Nor does fixing cars, or doing other so called masculine activities.

Support your son and find out his interest. You’re grounding your eldest son for labeling your son, but so are you. Don’t place a label on him…

He is an individual so there is no point in trying to mold him into the cookie cutter being you think he should be…

He may seem "effeminate’ because he’s not as “manly” as your other sons. But that doesn’t make him gay nor really effeminate in the first place.

Love him.

 

[TurboLover336]

give him a few Satriani and Malmsteen CD’s … while those are sinking in to the boy look up the F chord and start looking at some electric guitars.
If you can’t do the F chord on a particular guitar, keep looking till you find one you can … its the hardest of all the chords to do and stands in the way if the action makes it impossible.
next … look at amps, Im partial to a Marshall myself, if I must buy off the shelf. then add a few cables and a Zoom G2 or G3 effect. Present these to the boy and let him get lost in it.
Thundering power chords and searing high speed steel distortion drenched arpeggios … its a guy thing

 

[Superkind]

Why can’t you just accept him for who he is? if your son is gay he is gay, and there is no changing that. Why would you want to make your child something he is not? There is no problem with being a homosexual, and A good parent realizes that. who you are sexually attracted to is nothing we can alter. Let your son be the beautiful person he is and support him no matter who he is.

 

[DL82]

I’m going to be blunt, and a little crude here, because there is an important distinction that many in our society, including in the Church, lose sight of.

Being a homosexual means you want to have sex with someone of the same gender.

That is all. Nothing to do with playing with dolls, or liking musical theatre, or carrying yourself in an ‘effeminate’ way, or not understanding the off-side rule. It’s not even got anything to do with recognising when other boys are attractive, which I think most young men do, and which confuses and scares many young men today. It’s about sex, that is all.

I say this as a straight man who questioned his sexuality a lot in school because I didn’t fit the sporty mould. I questioned my sexuality even though my raging hormones were pointing me very squarely toward the females around me (although without much success until my late 20s). That is what our stereotypes do to children.

There is a separate issue of the bullying your son is experiencing - and I am not a father of teenagers, so I don’t know that I can advise on whether you should always encourage individual expression or whether it’s sometimes good to help a child to conform to the norms of those around them. Others on this board have said more than I could there, but please, as your own experience tells you, try to separate the issue of ‘effeminacy’ from any idea of your son being gay.

 

[signit]

Being a homosexual means you want to have sex with someone of the same gender.

That is all. Nothing to do with playing with dolls, or liking musical theatre, or carrying yourself in an ‘effeminate’ way, or not understanding the off-side rule. It’s not even got anything to do with recognising when other boys are attractive, which I think most young men do, and which confuses and scares many young men today. It’s about sex, that is all.

Thanks; one of the best statements I’ve ever seen on CAF.

I like musical theatre; I’m not a stereotypical masculine type, I don’t have SSA, and I always resented the name-calling I used to get.

 

[Razanir]

Thanks; one of the best statements I’ve ever seen on CAF.

I like musical theatre; I’m not a stereotypical masculine type, I don’t have SSA, and I always resented the name-calling I used to get.

Agree. Let’s see… I like theatre, also. I play the flute. I don’t really care for sports. And yeah, overall I’m not stereotypically masculine. However, I am not gay (despite what my verbally abusive neighbor back home thinks) and I’ve even had a girlfriend for the past half a year.

 

[susansms]

Shame, shame, shame on you for trying to “change” your son. If he is truly gay, you are indeed making his life a miserable Hell!!! He and all of us that are Gay, are no less loved by God than people of other religions, or people that are brown, black, green, yellow, or any race. We (that are Gay) know that we are born Gay. “Well-minding parents”, relatives, school administrators, etc. believe that it is a good thing to try to change Gay people, when, in fact, they are quite often driving their son/daughter/friend to a life of misery or suicide. The statistics on this are very staggering. Rather than focusing all of your time on how to “change” your son (which doesn’t work anyway), I would highly recommend that you go to a meeting of PFLAG, and get some literature on how to love your son, no matter what, and how to support him through this. After all, he is YOUR SON!!! Don’t forget that!!! Even the Pope has said that we need to be kinder to gay people!!!

 

[EasterJoy]

Shame, shame, shame on you for trying to “change” your son. If he is truly gay, you are indeed making his life a miserable Hell!!! He and all of us that are Gay, are no less loved by God than people of other religions, or people that are brown, black, green, yellow, or any race. We (that are Gay) know that we are born Gay. “Well-minding parents”, relatives, school administrators, etc. believe that it is a good thing to try to change Gay people, when, in fact, they are quite often driving their son/daughter/friend to a life of misery or suicide. The statistics on this are very staggering. Rather than focusing all of your time on how to “change” your son (which doesn’t work anyway), I would highly recommend that you go to a meeting of PFLAG, and get some literature on how to love your son, no matter what, and how to support him through this. After all, he is YOUR SON!!! Don’t forget that!!! Even the Pope has said that we need to be kinder to gay people!!!

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