Dealing with annoying people in positions of athority

[Johanna_C]

I am having a hard time dealing with the director of our church choir. I have been a member of this choir for almost 3 years, and I have sung in various choirs since the age of 6. I am not a professional, but I have had vocal training and years of experience singing all types of choral music. I joined the choir because they were hurting for members, and I felt like I had a moral obligation to use my talents for the good of the church. But we have 5 children, and being available to sing requires concerted effort for me and my family.

I am growing more and more annoyed as time goes by, to the point that I sometimes feel rather disturbed on the days I attend practice. This choir director is very inclined to lecture and brag, but at the same time he is rather lazy and disorganized. He tends to marginalize choir members whose voices he doesn’t particularly like, and be demanding with other members. He is blunt in his criticism (“You fail!” “You are drastically flat.”), and dismisses those who criticize him. He seems to take us and his full time paid position for granted. Several choir members have been alienated to the point that they quit, and for a period of time I frequently sang as the only soprano or one of two. In every other church choir I have sung with, sopranos were a dime a dozen!

Recently our church completed a rebuild of a larger and more beautiful church which has led to an influx of new choir members. The director has lately been pulling out new pieces of music and expecting us to sing them with little practice. If people have trouble, he has what he calls “a cut down group” and chooses just the members he deems more proficient to sing. This has been happening more and more often. Recently he sent out an email to the whole choir with yet another piece of new, complex polyphony which he wants a “cut down group” listed in the email to “listen to a recording while going over the music a few times a day” so that it can be “fairly polished” to preform next Sunday because an acquaintance he wishes to impress will be at mass.

I feel for some older members who have put in years, if not decades, of service and who I think have now been marginalized. I am particularly sorry about the old organist who founded and maintained the choir for years with great dedication (he was never paid). He quit in protest of the way that the current director came in and took over. The director blames him for the trouble. I always found him a excellent, dedicated and cordial person, but he feels so alienated that he refused an invitation to a Christmas party that he knew the director would also attend, actually telling the host that that was his reason.

How does one handle this situation? I find myself in the role of making sarcastic comments in practice, which sometimes diffuse tension in a positive way, but can also be rather mean. I think that my presence is beneficial to the choir still, but no longer essential. To be fair, this director has had some very positive impacts on the quality of the music overall: now, by all accounts and as a whole, we are exceptional for a volunteer church choir. Is that worth any cost? I think there are problems that are not being addressed, but no one else (who is still around) seems to be as irritated as me. Should I speak out or stuff it? Keep on or quit? What is the correct response?

 

[abinjoy]

Pray to the guardian angel of that person.Pray to archangel Gabriel also

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

This would be an easy decision for me if I were in that situation: I would quit. I would not take time away from my 5 children to do something that is an endless source of aggravation.

 

[Demetra2]

I am having a hard time dealing with the director of our church choir. I have been a member of this choir for almost 3 years, and I have sung in various choirs since the age of 6. I am not a professional, but I have had vocal training and years of experience singing all types of choral music. I joined the choir because they were hurting for members, and I felt like I had a moral obligation to use my talents for the good of the church. But we have 5 children, and being available to sing requires concerted effort for me and my family.

I am growing more and more annoyed as time goes by, to the point that I sometimes feel rather disturbed on the days I attend practice. This choir director is very inclined to lecture and brag, but at the same time he is rather lazy and disorganized. He tends to marginalize choir members whose voices he doesn’t particularly like, and be demanding with other members. He is blunt in his criticism (“You fail!” “You are drastically flat.”), and dismisses those who criticize him. He seems to take us and his full time paid position for granted. Several choir members have been alienated to the point that they quit, and for a period of time I frequently sang as the only soprano or one of two. In every other church choir I have sung with, sopranos were a dime a dozen!

Recently our church completed a rebuild of a larger and more beautiful church which has led to an influx of new choir members. The director has lately been pulling out new pieces of music and expecting us to sing them with little practice. If people have trouble, he has what he calls “a cut down group” and chooses just the members he deems more proficient to sing. This has been happening more and more often. Recently he sent out an email to the whole choir with yet another piece of new, complex polyphony which he wants a “cut down group” listed in the email to “listen to a recording while going over the music a few times a day” so that it can be “fairly polished” to preform next Sunday because an acquaintance he wishes to impress will be at mass.

I feel for some older members who have put in years, if not decades, of service and who I think have now been marginalized. I am particularly sorry about the old organist who founded and maintained the choir for years with great dedication (he was never paid). He quit in protest of the way that the current director came in and took over. The director blames him for the trouble. I always found him a excellent, dedicated and cordial person, but he feels so alienated that he refused an invitation to a Christmas party that he knew the director would also attend, actually telling the host that that was his reason.

How does one handle this situation? I find myself in the role of making sarcastic comments in practice, which sometimes diffuse tension in a positive way, but can also be rather mean. I think that my presence is beneficial to the choir still, but no longer essential. To be fair, this director has had some very positive impacts on the quality of the music overall: now, by all accounts and as a whole, we are exceptional for a volunteer church choir. Is that worth any cost? I think there are problems that are not being addressed, but no one else (who is still around) seems to be as irritated as me. Should I speak out or stuff it? Keep on or quit? What is the correct response?/QUOTE

Privately approach the director and calmly and charitably tell him of your concerns. If possible bring others with you because you don’t want it to appear that you are the only one with these opinions. If you have already done that with no result then the next step is to go with other choir members to the priest. The priest really should know what is going on. It may be that the priest does know and the director is following his request to improve the choir. Some priests are very fussy about having very professional sounding choirs. If the priest is unaware then let him handle the director. Give it a little time to see some change. If nothing changes then you may want to consider taking a break from the choir. It doesn’t sound like you are enjoying it very much so you have to ask yourself if there is something else that would give you more satisfaction. Perhaps a different church ministry. Have you thought of attending a different church with a more relaxed music program?

 

[Cat]

I’m a professional accompanist, and I’ve seen this situation over and over again throughout my life.

I agree with the approach described by Demetra2.

It’s the approach outline in Matthew 18:15-17. There has been no sin here by the director, but there is conflict that needs to be resolved amicably.

This approach would also be the approach recommended in many businesses and companies. Go first to the one that you are at odds with, and only go “over their head” if you can’t work things out.

However, a couple of thoughts.

With much thought and prayer, write out what you are going to say to the director, and say only what is written out. Do not speak “off script.” It is too easy, in the emotion of the moment (and music is all about emotion!) to say something that you will regret for the rest of your life.

If you bring others with you to talk to the director, make sure they are clear on this–only speak what is “in the script.”

Second thought: In the arts world, the rule is “Never make an enemy.” It may haunt you for the rest of your life. Try very very VERY hard to keep peace between yourself and this director. Don’t make anything “personal.” Yes, he will probably still be angry and upset, and may put you on his “list” of enemies. But try really hard.

In fact, that brings me to my third point. It might be best for you and others who feel the same way that you do to just leave the choir quietly. Music is a “demand” activity. If there is demand, the musician will have work. If there is no demand, then the musician will wait tables.

If your choir dwindles, and there are not enough singers for the director to conduct, then there will be questions from the priest and the diocese–what is happening here?! Why did everyone leave?

The director will then be required to justify his position and his methods, and you won’t have to say a word! He will be “in the hot seat,” so to speak.

And it may work out that he will be asked to change his approach and methods, and this will be a GOOD thing for him and for all the singers in the parish.

Or it may work out that he will be dismissed, and that will be a good thing for him and all the singers in the parish. (Good for him because he needs to be somewhere where his methods are a good “fit.”)

I hope I have given you some things to think about.

One more thought–I respectfully believe that the organist/former choir director is wrong in his approach. Certainly he has every right to feel saddened by his dismissal, but he shouldn’t deliberately avoid or stay away from the director and the social occasions. He should seek to be at PEACE with the new director, who has been placed there by the priest, who is the authority in the parish.

IMO, it is very possible that the old organist IS, in some way, a source of trouble for this new director, perhaps behind the scenes. It is very hard for a new director to take over from a beloved older director, and the old director has to “get out of the way” and allow the new guy to establish new methods and approaches. If the old director continues to be a source of irritation behind the scenes, the new director may resort to “desperate” approaches to establish himself, and this may be what is happening in your choir (although I honestly think that the director is just not right for a parish choir–he’s probably more suited to a professional-level choir).

So I think the old organist should try very hard to set aside his disappointment and instead, strive to support the new director in word and deed (which might mean staying out of the way entirely), and strive to keep peace and harmony in the musical community in your parish.

 

[1ke]

I would be direct with him, with the parish council, and with the pastor. I would be specific about what needs to change. If things did not change, I would resign.

This is a paid position-- YOU pay his salary through your donations to the Church. But, the choir as a whole is a ministry. The pastor needs to manage his personnel and he needs to be a spiritual director for his ministry.

He is currently doing neither.

 

[Ophelia23]

You are obligated to serve God with the talents and skills that He gave to you. You are not morally obligated to do this by singing in the choir. As my mom would say, don’t martyr yourself. Quit the choir. Be at peace.

 

[Johanna_C]

To those who advise me to talk to the director, I may do just that, but I am doubtful as to it bringing about any results. I have publicly spoken out about actions of the director before, once when he wanted to hire choir members (which I thought was too expensive for our relatively small parish and the wrong approach), and again when the director got in hot water for reproducing copyrighted material without permission (He was publicly criticizing the people with the copyright, which seemed unfair to me). On both occasions, the director was very unwilling to admit the possibility that he might be mistaken. Before I even joined the choir, I once tried to playfully take him to task because he was still in bed after 11am when I was visiting his wife and kids after he had been hired to work full time as our choir director. I wasn’t a jerk about it, “Hey, you were still in bed when it was almost noon!” On that occasion he acted offended that I would even question his work schedule. Generally, he seems to find my irritation humorous.

Our pastor is an excellent priest, but he dislikes conflict and really just wants everyone to get along, and he allows the director to work with little oversight. Members of the parish finance council have also been upset about the director’s behavior and nothing has really come of that.

Even if I do quit, I will still have to deal with this man on a regular basis; his wife is a childhood friend and his oldest son is my godson. I find I spend less time with them though, because his personality is so grating. Last time we were over for dinner the director spent much of the time lecturing me on one subject after another. At one point he went on at length about how if I just improved my vocal transition I could be a professional quality soprano. He played me example after example of what “professional sopranos” sound like but didn’t offer me any really useful vocal coaching, he just told me what was wrong with me. By the end of the evening I couldn’t wait to leave.

I really don’t want the choir director to lose his job because it would be devastating to his family. Full time choral positions are hard to come by and he spent a long time out of work before he was hired here. His last full time job was not music related.

I had stayed for a long time because I believed that the soprano section would not be very reliable without me. On more than one occasion we were only able to sing harmony because I was there to shoulder the melody and there were no other sopranos. About half the choir members left after the director was hired, women especially. He gets along better with the men because they are his drinking buddies. There are more people now though, so maybe it’s time for me to take a break. I feel like my speaking up helps to balance the choir somewhat, and I worry about what will happen if I am not around.

 

[Joe_5859]

I would recommend talking to your pastor about your concerns.

 

[Johanna_C]

I would recommend talking to your pastor about your concerns.

I am wavering about that. The one time I tried to bring up my concerns with him, he immediately said, “And if you were in charge, everyone would see your faults.” I was rather taken aback. I don’t want to be in charge, but if I was and I were being paid enough to support a family of 7 like our choir director, I would expect people to notice my job performance.

 

[Johanna_C]

Thank you for taking the time to come here and share your story.

Clearly you have a personal relationship with this person as well as a relationship through the choir as his child is your godson! Because of that (in my opinion) you may be called to take a different approach entirely.

From what you wrote, this individual already has PLENTY of people who have been complaining including other choir members past and present, the parish finance committee, the former choir director among others. Therefore it is, or should be obvious to your friend and your parish priest that there is a problem here…your voice is not critical to bring about change and could in fact hurt your relationship.

Your option as I see it would be to back away peacefully and gracefully! But first, tell your friend you love him and that he is a good person and that you admire his talents. Your friend is a beloved child of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ GAVE your friend the beautiful gifts of talent that he has, unfortunately pride seems to be standing in his way. Jesus wants your friend to use his wonderful gifts of music to bring joy to the Church! Instead your friend is abrasive and irritates others…satan loves this, satan loves discord in the Catholic church.

Above all pray for your friend and pray for your parish and fellow choir members. There are people who have left the Catholic Faith altogether over such irritations it is sad indeed. We have a fallen nature and are all sinners so pride and other things get in the way of us behaving as good Christians to one another. Take a break from the choir and enjoy your family, hope this helps a little. God bless you.

This seems right to me.

 

[McMcMe]

Quit the choir and enjoy singing in the pews! I often wonder why Music Directors don’t hold auditions. I am a bit of a artistic snob in that I CRINGE when there is a bad choir or flat cantor–the mass is meant to be beautiful and quite frankly not everyone is talented enough to fill those roles.

As a passable singer, there are some choirs I fit just fine in but others would simply be too demanding for me. Our old parish had three “levels” and the music was chosen to play to the strengths of each level. The object should be to make a beautiful melodic background that is not distracting to the congregation but that assists in worship by use of God’s beauty. THAT is the job of a Music Director–not to shame anyone in their choirs who doesn’t sing at a professional level.

 

[moon1234]

I can feel where you are coming from. I joined our TLM choir when the TLM at our parish was just beginning. We had a somewhat eclectic choir director that I had to learn to like. He was one of those people who was smart and intelligent, but couldn’t hear much of what I said, other than when I was singing flat.

To his credit I DID like his efforts to improve my performance. My pride was a little hurt, but at least he could demonstrate what I was doing and provide guidance on improving. When he had to leave due to health issues, we were without a choir director.

One of the choir members stepped in to fill the void. This person could play the organ and sing so it was this or no choir.

I found over the next 6 months to a year that the choices of music to sing changed drastically to those that this new director and those in the circle preferred to sing. The music was very downbeat and depressing, at least to me. They may have found them heavenly, but others commented to me how Christmas and Easter Music seemed to lack joy.

I found that choir was no longer fun and enjoyable. It had become a chore I dreaded going to. Eventually I just stopped going as I just could not sing the music, any suggestions for music to sing from me were never included, etc.

The hardest part was when this was noticed by our parish Priest. He asked why I was no longer singing. I was one of two tenors at the time. I explained all of the above and he seemed to accept that answer, but it was a very depressing moment for me. I very much enjoyed singing under the old director, even with his quirks. At least the music was usually what I liked.

The best I can say is that you need to do what makes you happy. If you stay a member of the choir and no longer enjoy it, you are not giving God your best. If you can be a better person by being with your children more, then that is where you may be called at this time.

I hope one day to be able to enjoy singing in the choir again, but I don’t think that will happen until there is a change of choir directors and that decision is not mine. I am content to be a parishioner in the pews now. I am pretty sure my wife likes it too as so has another set of arms to hold on to the little ones.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Well, this is from a person who prefers to go the mass with no singing.

You are not indispensable to the choir, the graveyards are full of men who thought they were indispensable. They can and will manage just fine without you.

Does being a part of the choir bring you closer to God? Or, given what is going on, is it distracting you from Him particularly at mass?

I think your personal relationship with his family is more important than choir. He is a paid professional, accountable to the parish, its up to them to decide if he’s getting the job done and worth the money. It seems that choir is getting between that relationship, and if you’re the one who raises the issue about his performance, I can only see it getting worse.

I would tend towards leaving the choir, but cite other reasons than being upset with his leadership or direction of the choir. I’m sure other responsibilities are competing for your time and simply cite them as the reason. As others have said, you can raise your voice to God in the pews.

 

[Allegra]

I think that if you decide to talk to the director or the pastor, you should keep the discussion to the issue you think are the real problems that are affecting the music ministry and not focus on personality quirks and things that are just annoying. I will say, I don’t think there should be a problem with having a few pieces that are sung by a select group that can handle it. Sometimes you get some really experienced singers who read well and they get extremely bored listening to the tenors go over a basic harmony for the one millionth time. I know it’s supposed to be about assisting the liturgy and praising God, but it really does help keep the around if the experience is also musically rewarding. Of course, if it gets to be every week, the rest feel left out.

 

[Johanna_C]

Quit the choir and enjoy singing in the pews! I often wonder why Music Directors don’t hold auditions. I am a bit of a artistic snob in that I CRINGE when there is a bad choir or flat cantor–the mass is meant to be beautiful and quite frankly not everyone is talented enough to fill those roles.

To be clear, my capability isn’t the issue in this case. I don’t have a problem with the music, just the management.

By all accounts the choir is a very good one. Especially if you like chant ,Palestrina and medieval music in addition to hymns. (I do)

Does being a part of the choir bring you closer to God? Or, given what is going on, is it distracting you from Him particularly at mass?

It is certainly penitential. I don’t have trouble paying attention at mass; the need for silence means he can’t nitpick us.

I am leaning towards taking a break, but I think I should tell the director why. I think that part of his problem is that too many people have let him get away with too much for too long. It would be good for him to be aware of the consequences of his actions, and he’s more likely to blow me off than hold a grudge. My reservations are only that, in the choir, I take the role of the one who calls him on his shenanigans, and me being there reins him in a little. I am afraid that other members of the choir might end up leaving if I leave. Perhaps I have an exaggerated sense of my own importance, but I have invested a lot of time and effort in the choir and I would hate to see it fall apart now. The new influx of members has only been a recent thing, and it’s impossible to know if it will stick, and before we had them, it was hard for the choir to sing anything with parts without me. I feel a responsibility to the choir and it feels wrong to just expect others to take my place. Sometimes nobody steps up, and the whole thing goes to pieces.

I will say, I don’t think there should be a problem with having a few pieces that are sung by a select group that can handle it. Sometimes you get some really experienced singers who read well and they get extremely bored listening to the tenors go over a basic harmony for the one millionth time. I know it’s supposed to be about assisting the liturgy and praising God, but it really does help keep the around if the experience is also musically rewarding. Of course, if it gets to be every week, the rest feel left out

I didn’t really have a problem with it when it was just an occasional thing, but lately it has been every week. Beyond the frequency, it bothers me because most of the pieces that he does this with are things that the whole choir could learn with a little advanced planning on his part. He just can’t be bothered to introduce them in a timely manner. Also I think it’s presumptuous to ask people to do extra work because some acquaintance of his will be at mass and he decides that he needs to do some special new piece just for them. This particular event is what has really had me on edge lately. We are supposed to be about mass, not his ego.

 

[styrgwillidar]

It is certainly penitential. I don’t have trouble paying attention at mass; the need for silence means he can’t nitpick us.

Sorry, it was not so much about distracting at mass, more that, for some people being a part of the choir and the music makes them feel closer to God. That it has a spiritual component they would miss, in some ways make them feel more distant from Him. That is, it wouldn’t be the same to just sing in the pews. Not the same feeling of presenting a gift to God, a more direct part of the celebration of the mass.

If that is the case with you, I would be more inclined to stick it out. Not be willing to give that up due to personality. Or at least, more willing to first try to tactfully address this with the individual vice quitting. Along the lines of, he’s brought the choir along, that he could improve the rest as well with a little more advance planning etc.

 

[Johanna_C]

Sorry, it was not so much about distracting at mass, more that, for some people being a part of the choir and the music makes them feel closer to God. That it has a spiritual component they would miss, in some ways make them feel more distant from Him. That is, it wouldn’t be the same to just sing in the pews. Not the same feeling of presenting a gift to God, a more direct part of the celebration of the mass.

If that is the case with you, I would be more inclined to stick it out. Not be willing to give that up due to personality. Or at least, more willing to first try to tactfully address this with the individual vice quitting. Along the lines of, he’s brought the choir along, that he could improve the rest as well with a little more advance planning etc.

I see. And yes, I suppose I would miss some aspects of the singing, the congregation usually just sing the mass parts and not the hymns or polyphony. I am the sort of person who is more at home in an active role than a meditative one. I really feel quite torn for a number of reasons. I think I might take just a month off and then re-evaluate. I have been quite furious with the director before but swallowed it and kept on anyway, but back then it would have had a significant impact on the choir if I had left.

 

[Allegra]

I see. And yes, I suppose I would miss some aspects of the singing, the congregation usually just sing the mass parts and not the hymns or polyphony. I am the sort of person who is more at home in an active role than a meditative one. I really feel quite torn for a number of reasons. I think I might take just a month off and then re-evaluate. I have been quite furious with the director before but swallowed it and kept on anyway, but back then it would have had a significant impact on the choir if I had left.

I have to constantly chastize my choir director and tell him what he’s doing wrong too.

 

[Johanna_C]

I have to constantly chastize my choir director and tell him what he’s doing wrong too.

Actually it’s the other way around. He feels the need to constantly chastize us, as he says, “I will never stop trying to make you better.” “I can see it’s a bad pitch day.” “You fail!” “You are drastically flat.” and my my least favorite of all, “Well that’s good enough for a Catholic choir.” The worst I do is make sarcastic responses and roll my eyes at him. He seems to think I am mostly fooling around, which is not always the case, but he seems unable to believe that anyone really dislikes him. I have only told him that he was wrong on a few occasions when I thought it really mattered. I have had other choir members tell me that they feel better because I stand up to him, which isn’t to say that I haven’t said uncharitable things to him on occasion, which I regretted after the fact, but I genuinely do want the best for the choir and him. When I say that the choir needed me it was because I was actually the only one singing melody on more than on occasion. At best, for a while, I was half the soprano section, so if I really wanted him to fail, I could have left him up the creek then.

But thanks for responding anyway. It has been helpful to me write all this out. I really don’t want to be petty, and now I think I have a better understanding of which of my feelings are justified and what might be motivated by pride and built up resentment.