Dealing with anti-Catholic stuff.

[adamhovey1988]

Agree, and if they are a validly baptized Protestant, they are imperfectly joined to the Church.

I think those who use the term “Roman Catholic” do it intentionally because they know the word Catholic means ‘universal’, and they don’t want to acknowledge that. They wish to continue with their beliefs and stereotypes that the CC is this evil, insidious, Popish, Romish cult, the whore of Babylon. They wont say all that to your face, but in their own circles, this is how many of them talk, unfortunately. I found that talk offensive as a protestant just like I hate when devout Catholics refer to protestants as our lost brothers and sisters or whatever else kind of label they come up with.

I just find it easier to call them Protestant. I don’t use that label to be disparaging, it’s the historical term that’s been used. For what it’s worth, I have met many Protestants, Baptists, ACNA, Presbyterians, Episcopal, Non-Denominational, Methodists, etc, that I think are wonderful Christians. My frustration comes when some people try to label Catholics as Non-Christians. I remember I had a Chinese culture class where a guy said “my mom is Catholic, my dad is Christian”. Extreme Facepalm. I went to a pro-life March over in Columbia (the state capital) and there was a guy holding a sign that said “Roman Catholicism is not the Christianity of the Bible”, I don’t think a Pro-life march was the best place for that. So, I sent a fairly competent Catholic friend of mine to talk to him. That’s another thing that frustrates me. The belief that we don’t know the Bible. I know I don’t know the Bible as well as I should, but I can sling verses all day if need be. As much as I love Dixie (and I love her so), anti-Catholicism is part of the culture. I think South Carolina is a beautiful state. A lot of people though, they just don’t know any better. Of course, some southerners are or have been life-long Catholics (one of my favourite writers, Flannery O’Connor, was from Georgia). I think, if Catholics were better educated on their faith, there was be a lot fewer anti-Catholics and “former” Catholics. And that’s why we’re on CAF, no?

 

[Church_Militant]

If I may be so bold since I’m new here:

You cannot determine how you seem to ME. Only I can make that determination.
You come off as being too strong and this turns people off. I’ve been teaching and witnessing for a really long time and your method does not work.

Here also …you do not know what works for me. I have been sharing my faith both in and out of Catholicism for many years. In person it works even better because they can hear my tone of voice and see the smile on my face; something that online forums lack.

I never intend to offend, but I refuse to just sit around and listen when someone puts forth either anti-Catholic propaganda (like this for instance. Refuting: “Is a Catholic Christian an Oxymoron?” ) or offers my fellow Catholics errors that are usually pretty easily corrected.

My own experience with n-Cs/a-Cs is always a work in progress. They are not one and the same (Thanks Be To God), but they often crossover and make the same kinds of remarks, so it can be very difficult to tell.

I think it’s a little rude how you and Lenten Ashes speak about me as if I were not here reading along. I’m surprised this is allowed - I had the feeling these posts were monitored. I may mention someone at times, but always in a nice way. This makes me feel attacked and makes me desire to leave.

Again, you don’t appear to have had much experience in online forums. The fact is that I have really not spoken much about you…aside from stating that I cannot understand why you take things personally when they are not intended that way. But again, we have no auditory or visual cues to help us with this, so we are stuck with the medium we have.

You should stop using the term: you n-Catholics. It goes back to a previous post of mine. How do you converse with someone who uses terms like: We, You, Us, Them.
Do you speak about black people as “them?” I hope not. Why would you do it to a non-Catholic??

I disagree. N-Cs are in fact anyone who is not a Catholic regardless of their affiliation, whether they be Christian or any other religion. Most n-Cs do not specify their affiliation, mainly because they do not see it as important, though in interfaith dialog it would be helpful since that helps to narrow the discussion down a bit to their respective beliefs and their generally stated thinking with regard to the Catholic faith.

You assume a lot about me. And state it up above. What do you know about me?
Are all the fish in a net the same? Are you the same as every other Catholic? I think not.

I assume nothing much about you aside from the observation that you appear to be unused to online message boards. I may be wrong…but it seems to me that you are very easily offended where none is intended, but dialog cannot progress without clear expression and for Catholics to back down from apologetics is ineffective.

You think I don’t know what your user name means.
Cute.
And how do you know that I don’t know?

Well you do now…I am sure. However, when you offered the same remarks on my username that so many other n-Cs/a-Cs have then …

And let’s assume I didn’t know. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
You use it as another way to attack me.
Not very Christianly of you, is it?

I was merely supplying information…which is in fact very Christian of me.

What if YOU were on a Christian forum and I said:

You non Christians and then proceeded to accuse you of all manner of things which might not even pertain to you???

GG

Been there, done that.

Protestant just means anything that is not Catholic.
Maybe we should just all use the same dictionary??

Sorry but that is not true. That term is too limited.

Jesus binds us together, even though we disagree on doctrine. He’s still the same Jesus, It’s still the same God , Yahweh.

But truth is important and correct doctrine is important is it not?

You know, I have an autistic granddaughter.

God bless you both, and I will certainly remember you both in all my prayers and at Mass from now on.

I’d rather be referred to as Protestant than as a “you n-Catholics”. I think that’s so bad. If someone gets hurt, tough. That’s what they are PROTESTANT - what denomination is irrelevant. If they weren’t Protestant, they’d be Catholic!!

Like I said…that isn’t accurate.

Plus, it’s not necessary to say YOU anything. What if I said “you Catholics”? Wouldn’t that distance you from me?

Not especially. I take it as a compliment.

That’s enough of this

. I have nothing against C.M. I just wish he’d calm down a bit.
I forgive. 70 X 7 !

GG:thumbsup:

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

I don’t find ChurchMilitant to be problematic at all. Very direct, which is frankly refreshing in an age where everyone skirts round an issue for fear that a firm commitment to truth will offend. But by no means unfriendly or unhelpful. Quite the opposite.

 

[GodsGrace154]

Here also …you do not know what works for me. I have been sharing my faith both in and out of Catholicism for many years. In person it works even better because they can hear my tone of voice and see the smile on my face; something that online forums lack.

I never intend to offend, but I refuse to just sit around and listen when someone puts forth either anti-Catholic propaganda (like this for instance. Refuting: “Is a Catholic Christian an Oxymoron?” ) or offers my fellow Catholics errors that are usually pretty easily corrected.

My own experience with n-Cs/a-Cs is always a work in progress. They are not one and the same (Thanks Be To God), but they often crossover and make the same kinds of remarks, so it can be very difficult to tell.
Again, you don’t appear to have had much experience in online forums. The fact is that I have really not spoken much about you…aside from stating that I cannot understand why you take things personally when they are not intended that way. But again, we have no auditory or visual cues to help us with this, so we are stuck with the medium we have.:shrug:I disagree. N-Cs are in fact anyone who is not a Catholic regardless of their affiliation, whether they be Christian or any other religion. Most n-Cs do not specify their affiliation, mainly because they do not see it as important, though in interfaith dialog it would be helpful since that helps to narrow the discussion down a bit to their respective beliefs and their generally stated thinking with regard to the Catholic faith.I assume nothing much about you aside from the observation that you appear to be unused to online message boards. I may be wrong…but it seems to me that you are very easily offended where none is intended, but dialog cannot progress without clear expression and for Catholics to back down from apologetics is ineffective.
Well you do now…I am sure. However, when you offered the same remarks on my username that so many other n-Cs/a-Cs have then …
I was merely supplying information…which is in fact very Christian of me.
Been there, done that.

Sorry but that is not true. That term is too limited.
But truth is important and correct doctrine is important is it not?
God bless you both, and I will certainly remember you both in all my prayers and at Mass from now on.
Like I said…that isn’t accurate.
Not especially. I take it as a compliment.

Well. Should we start over??
I know what you mean about “not everything non-Catholic is Protestant”. I know there are other religions. I haven’t seen any on here. So far. For here, everything not Catholic is Protestant - except Anglicans - I don’t understand them. Another poster made a list and said Protestant, Baptist, Episcopal, Methodist. Those are ALL protestant! They are NOT Catholic. This is what I mean.

You’re going to have to slow down and find out what I believe before you assume what I believe. Okay? I’m not anti-Catholic. I don’t agree with some of the doctrine and I will say when i don’t. But I don’t argue about it unless a poster wants to continue. It’s not because I don’t know it - it’s because I do know it. But don’t agree with it. I’m not here to fight or to change anybody’s mind. If you want to know why I’m here, I’ll be happy to tell you if asked.

When I say that doctrine is not important it would require clarification. I mean that I love you more as a brother in Christ than as someone who doesn’t agree with me on the doctrine of purgatory, for instance. I tell you what I think, you tell me what you think and it could end there. We’re grown ups, I think. I doubt we’re going to convince each other anymore at this point. Especially since we both seem to be well informed about our beliefs.

I’m writing all this because I’ll probably meet up with you again and I don’t like to be unfriendly or discourteous.

I quoted to you John 13:35 back there somewhere. I mean it.

Oh. And these “boards” are pretty new to me. Maybe I should act more like a guest than a member. I’m not sure. I love my Christian brethren and feel like one of you. I’m sorry if you don’t feel the same just because some of our beliefs are different.

I try to avoid the us, them, we, you mentality - I find it very unhelpful.

Let’s end it here.
Thanks for posting.

GG

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I just find it easier to call them Protestant. I don’t use that label to be disparaging, it’s the historical term that’s been used. For what it’s worth, I have met many Protestants, Baptists, ACNA, Presbyterians, Episcopal, Non-Denominational, Methodists, etc, that I think are wonderful Christians. My frustration comes when some people try to label Catholics as Non-Christians. I remember I had a Chinese culture class where a guy said “my mom is Catholic, my dad is Christian”. Extreme Facepalm. I went to a pro-life March over in Columbia (the state capital) and there was a guy holding a sign that said “Roman Catholicism is not the Christianity of the Bible”, I don’t think a Pro-life march was the best place for that. So, I sent a fairly competent Catholic friend of mine to talk to him. That’s another thing that frustrates me. The belief that we don’t know the Bible. I know I don’t know the Bible as well as I should, but I can sling verses all day if need be. As much as I love Dixie (and I love her so), anti-Catholicism is part of the culture. I think South Carolina is a beautiful state. A lot of people though, they just don’t know any better. Of course, some southerners are or have been life-long Catholics (one of my favourite writers, Flannery O’Connor, was from Georgia). I think, if Catholics were better educated on their faith, there was be a lot fewer anti-Catholics and “former” Catholics. And that’s why we’re on CAF, no?

I believe so, Adam. I definitely get your frustration living in the southeast part of the US. I was shocked when i first found out that EWTN was in Alabama of all places lol.

Most of the former Catholics I have encountered are or were not properly catechized. They have a general idea of what the Church teaches, but not why they teach it.

Here’s the problem…ritual w/o relationship. As a former protestant who knows the bible, especially the gospels, the Mass is absolutely gorgeous to me. It is entirely scriptural and in fact, it is the gospel because it’s focused on Christ crucified. But w/o my background, say had I been raised Catholic and were not properly catechized, it would just appear to be a bunch of mandatory rituals. So eventually people start to just go through the motions.

And so you are stuck in a rut of sorts, or so you think, and along comes a very convinced protestant offering the simplicity of the gospel…a invitation to invite Jesus into your heart and save your soul. Of course the message is usually incomplete, but they do it lovingly and offer you a loving Jesus. And it feels good to be loved, it’s something we all yearn for.

And so I’m afraid the CC as a whole does not do a good enough job of letting people know just how much God loves them. We are specks of dust in the cosmos…but God loves the speck.

My parish is part of the charismatic renewal. The people are warm, kind and caring. They pray the rosary, sing protestant songs from “Casting Crowns” or whoever and they love the Lord. It’s really the best of both worlds. I can be Catholic but still evangelical in a sense.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Well. Should we start over??
I know what you mean about “not everything non-Catholic is Protestant”. I know there are other religions. I haven’t seen any on here. So far. For here, everything not Catholic is Protestant - except Anglicans - I don’t understand them. Another poster made a list and said Protestant, Baptist, Episcopal, Methodist. Those are ALL protestant! They are NOT Catholic. This is what I mean.

You’re going to have to slow down and find out what I believe before you assume what I believe. Okay? I’m not anti-Catholic. I don’t agree with some of the doctrine and I will say when i don’t. But I don’t argue about it unless a poster wants to continue. It’s not because I don’t know it - it’s because I do know it. But don’t agree with it. I’m not here to fight or to change anybody’s mind. If you want to know why I’m here, I’ll be happy to tell you if asked.

When I say that doctrine is not important it would require clarification. I mean that I love you more as a brother in Christ than as someone who doesn’t agree with me on the doctrine of purgatory, for instance. I tell you what I think, you tell me what you think and it could end there. We’re grown ups, I think. I doubt we’re going to convince each other anymore at this point. Especially since we both seem to be well informed about our beliefs.

I’m writing all this because I’ll probably meet up with you again and I don’t like to be unfriendly or discourteous.

I quoted to you John 13:35 back there somewhere. I mean it.

Oh. And these “boards” are pretty new to me. Maybe I should act more like a guest than a member. I’m not sure. I love my Christian brethren and feel like one of you. I’m sorry if you don’t feel the same just because some of our beliefs are different.

I try to avoid the us, them, we, you mentality - I find it very unhelpful.

Let’s end it here.
Thanks for posting.

GG

Hi GG.

I was part of the Anglican church for a while…baptized there, actually.

What is it that you don’t understand about them?

Thanks

 

[GodsGrace154]

Hi GG.

I was part of the Anglican church for a while…baptized there, actually.

What is it that you don’t understand about them?

Thanks

I don’t understand what they consider themselves. They’ll say that they’re not Catholic but they also aren’t Protestant. What would you say?

As you must know, many Anglican priests are welcomed to be priests in the CC, and many are taking the invitation because they’re disenfranchised with the Anglican church but I don’t know why.

It IS confusing to me…

GG

 

[adamhovey1988]

I believe so, Adam. I definitely get your frustration living in the southeast part of the US. I was shocked when i first found out that EWTN was in Alabama of all places lol.

Most of the former Catholics I have encountered are or were not properly catechized. They have a general idea of what the Church teaches, but not why they teach it.

Here’s the problem…ritual w/o relationship. As a former protestant who knows the bible, especially the gospels, the Mass is absolutely gorgeous to me. It is entirely scriptural and in fact, it is the gospel because it’s focused on Christ crucified. But w/o my background, say had I been raised Catholic and were not properly catechized, it would just appear to be a bunch of mandatory rituals. So eventually people start to just go through the motions.

And so you are stuck in a rut of sorts, or so you think, and along comes a very convinced protestant offering the simplicity of the gospel…a invitation to invite Jesus into your heart and save your soul. Of course the message is usually incomplete, but they do it lovingly and offer you a loving Jesus. And it feels good to be loved, it’s something we all yearn for.

And so I’m afraid the CC as a whole does not do a good enough job of letting people know just how much God loves them. We are specks of dust in the cosmos…but God loves the speck.

My parish is part of the charismatic renewal. The people are warm, kind and caring. They pray the rosary, sing protestant songs from “Casting Crowns” or whoever and they love the Lord. It’s really the best of both worlds. I can be Catholic but still evangelical in a sense.

I would say I am right in between Charismatic and Traditional, with a little Byzantine thrown in. I think many Protestants make the mistake of assuming they won’t have what they loved about their Protestant churches in the Catholic Church. I think it was Deacon Alex Jones that said that he is more Pentecostal now than when he was Pentecostal.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I don’t understand what they consider themselves. They’ll say that they’re not Catholic but they also aren’t Protestant. What would you say?

As you must know, many Anglican priests are welcomed to be priests in the CC, and many are taking the invitation because they’re disenfranchised with the Anglican church but I don’t know why.

It IS confusing to me…

GG

So the priest of the Anglican Church I was a part of told me that 90% of the people who walk through his doors are former Catholics…

Once Pope Francis made the annulment process simpler I joked he was putting the Anglican church out of business because so many of them are divorced Catholics, who for whatever reason, did not want to go through the annulment process. Or perhaps they did go through the process, and just like King Henry, their founder, the annulment request was denied.

They are a diverse group of high church/low church, but long story short, GG, they are protestants who do not want to give up the label of Catholic.

Consubstantiation, no real Catholic understanding of the communion of saints with heaven/hell only theology, these are ideas of the reformed church.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

As you must know, many Anglican priests are welcomed to be priests in the CC, and many are taking the invitation because they’re disenfranchised with the Anglican church but I don’t know why.
GG

Immorality within the ECUSA is driving out many parishoners and priests to either continuing Anglican movements or the Catholic church.

 

[guanophore]

Anyway former Catholics don't exist a former Catholic it's just a non-practicing Catholic they may no longer **identify as cow fight** but they are still technically Catholic.

I want to sign up for one of these. Are they open to the public?

I don’t find the term Protestant to be all that and so think I mean if you belong to a tradition that protests the Catholic Church then you are a Protestant

That’s just it, though, they dont see themselves as protesting anything, and like GG pointed out, they don’t know the history of their ecclesial community.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I would say I am right in between Charismatic and Traditional, with a little Byzantine thrown in. I think many Protestants make the mistake of assuming they won’t have what they loved about their Protestant churches in the Catholic Church. I think it was Deacon Alex Jones that said that he is more Pentecostal now than when he was Pentecostal.

That’s a good point.

Many protestants are absolutely in love with Jesus, and if they could come to the belief that we have about the Mass and our Lord in the Eucharist, they would gladly fall down on their face and worship him in adoration. And they would probably attend Mass everyday of the week.

Catholicism is enhanced Christianity, like going from SDTV to HDTV for those crossing the tiber, imo

 

[adamhovey1988]

I want to sign up for one of these. Are they open to the public?

That’s just it, though, they dont see themselves as protesting anything, and like GG pointed out, they don’t know the history of their ecclesial community.

Well here in South Carolina maybe I really should do this more on my computer than from my phone

 

[guanophore]

I don’t understand what they consider themselves. They’ll say that they’re not Catholic but they also aren’t Protestant. What would you say?

Some here on CAF call themselves Anglo-Catholics.

As you must know, many Anglican priests are welcomed to be priests in the CC, and many are taking the invitation because they’re disenfranchised with the Anglican church but I don’t know why.

It IS confusing to me…

GG

There has been an influx of modernism, primarily in the Episcopal communities resulting in extreme departures from Traditional Anglican Faith such as gay marriage and the ordination of women.

I think the other factor is one you have already pointed out, which is the very different tone of papal messages and attitudes in the last century. Pope Frances has not said anything different than what the Church has always believed and taught, but he emphasizes a different part of the message, which makes reunification much easier for many.

HIgh Church Anglicans are virtually indistinguishable from Roman Catholics. I have known people who went to an Anglican Mass and did not realize it was not Catholic until a prayer for the Pope was not included. This means there is very little lacking in reunification.

 

[guanophore]

Well here in South Carolina maybe I really should do this more on my computer than from my phone

OTOH talk to text can be downright hysterical.

 

[GodsGrace154]

Thanks for the info.

What does High Church and Low Church mean??

GG

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

High church is 'smells and bells" - very much more traditional, and more Catholic looking in approach to worship. Low church is nothing like that, and can be as bare as your typical Baptist service.

 

[GodsGrace154]

High church is 'smells and bells" - very much more traditional, and more Catholic looking in approach to worship. Low church is nothing like that, and can be as bare as your typical Baptist service.

Thanks JoyToThe Whrled

But how does one decide which way to worship?
Does it depend on what church one goes to?

I’d rather hear everything from people instead of Prof. Google!

GG

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Thanks JoyToThe Whrled

But how does one decide which way to worship?
Does it depend on what church one goes to?

I’d rather hear everything from people instead of Prof. Google!

GG

My experience of the C of E is that it really does depend on the vicar and the congregation of the local church. I’ve attended high church Anglican churches just round the corner from me, but where we currently live the local CofE is very low church. Other churches in the parish are ‘higher up the candle’ a little. Obviously you can choose, in this day and age, where you attend church, but if you want to go to your local church and want it to be Anglican, it’s very much pot luck as to what style of church it will be. Anglicanism is a very, very broad church.

 

[GodsGrace154]

My experience of the C of E is that it really does depend on the vicar and the congregation of the local church. I’ve attended high church Anglican churches just round the corner from me, but where we currently live the local CofE is very low church. Other churches in the parish are ‘higher up the candle’ a little. Obviously you can choose, in this day and age, where you attend church, but if you want to go to your local church and want it to be Anglican, it’s very much pot luck as to what style of church it will be. Anglicanism is a very, very broad church.

In a way it’s like that with Catholic churches too. Some are very baroque, or very elegant, and some are just simple modern churches.

Thanks for the info! I always wondered about this.

GG
P.S. Some are against the beautiful churches that were built, I think they’re a testimony to the glory of God and express our devotion.