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Michael_Mayo
Guest
That is true for most of us but an anxiety disorder can be quite different, unrelated to any specific fears. It is just an excessive and persistent sense of apprehension, with physical symptoms such as sweating, palpitations, and feelings of stress. with no specific cause.
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
The advice that I have given here are for spiritual advice (hence the Spirituality forums) and not medical advice beyond the “seek a health professional” line for serious illness, as per the rules of these forums.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
I think there are different antecedents to anxiety, such as cognition and chemical imbalance. My anxiety seems to be physical, and cognitive behavior modification did little to help.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
Perhaps different things are being talked about. The OP’s advice probably won’t work for someone who had an anxiety disorder but probably would for someone who is feeling anxious or worried about some matter.
If I have an anxiety attack my thought process changes; my thoughts race and I experience physical symptoms that are worrisome too. Just trying to think “breathe” is difficult; if I happen to find the word “breathe” or “Jesus” and try to hold on to it it’s like that word gets trampled in the stampede going on in my head. Medication does help me and even though I’ve gone through some really stressful circumstances and had plenty of triggers, I haven’t had a severe attack for several months, instead I responded to these stressors like a most people and experienced normal emotions, even fear, instead of being paralyzed or stuck. FWIW, my anxiety is on the mild side and I lucked out that meds do help me and don’t turn me into a zombie.
Giving over worries and fears about specific matters to God is a good thing, and for those that live with an anxiety disorder we have those, too, so we can give those things to God and we can always offer up our sufferings when anxiety isn’t taking over.
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DBT
Guest
This was very good … thank you nuntym!
From my own perspective, I’ve noticed many posters have commented on the the importance of spiritual surrender. And in case anyone might be wondering just “how” one goes about surrender, I offer this little poem from St. John of the Cross:
The Sum of Perfection:
In other words, the ascetic practice of “changing the channel in our mind” when we notice we begin to dwell on our worries. Preoccupation is our real enemy. If I remember correctly, Michael, this was one of the themes in your thread on “Emptiness” a while back.
With time and grace our ascetic practice may be transformed into a more mystical understanding of “self-forgetfulness” … when we no longer need to work at this “changing of the channel;” it’s now our natural state, infused by God. This is one of the hallmarks of unitive life.
Dave
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
Here again John 16:33 helps me. Difficulties in “changing the mind channel” or “shifting mental gears” is just one more “trouble” that the Lord told me to expect from this world, and realizing that lowers my anxiety. Then the promise of “But be of good cheer, I have overcome the world!” lowers my anxiety still, in that the Lord promises me that We will overcome this trouble, like all the others troubles We have overcome.
Does the anxiety go away totally? Almost always, NO. But always they are lowered to manageable levels. I think the Lord wants me to live not totally free of fear so that I would more than conquer it with Him.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. (Romans 8:35-37)
And what is to “more than conquer”? Well, to conquer someone is to destroy him either physically or some other means; to more than conquer someone is to make him your friend. In other words, to more than conquer your fear is to make it a source of strength and grace, until perfect love, which we will have in Heaven where there will be no more fear of punishment, “drives out all fear” (1 John 4:18).
The problem sometimes is that people get even more anxious when they find it is hard to “change the channel”, from that of worry to that of letting go, especially when they are just starting to learn how to do this.In other words, the ascetic practice of “changing the channel in our mind” when we notice we begin to dwell on our worries. Preoccupation is our real enemy. If I remember correctly, Michael, this was one of the themes in your thread on “Emptiness” a while back.
With time and grace our ascetic practice may be transformed into a more mystical understanding of “self-forgetfulness” … when we no longer need to work at this “changing of the channel;” it’s now our natural state, infused by God. This is one of the hallmarks of unitive life.
Dave
Here again John 16:33 helps me. Difficulties in “changing the mind channel” or “shifting mental gears” is just one more “trouble” that the Lord told me to expect from this world, and realizing that lowers my anxiety. Then the promise of “But be of good cheer, I have overcome the world!” lowers my anxiety still, in that the Lord promises me that We will overcome this trouble, like all the others troubles We have overcome.
Does the anxiety go away totally? Almost always, NO. But always they are lowered to manageable levels. I think the Lord wants me to live not totally free of fear so that I would more than conquer it with Him.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. (Romans 8:35-37)
And what is to “more than conquer”? Well, to conquer someone is to destroy him either physically or some other means; to more than conquer someone is to make him your friend. In other words, to more than conquer your fear is to make it a source of strength and grace, until perfect love, which we will have in Heaven where there will be no more fear of punishment, “drives out all fear” (1 John 4:18).
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
Goodness. Having some anxiety is normal. It is an normal reaction to stress. It is a normal reaction to have some anxiety before a job interview or exam.
Anxiety disorders are complex and aren’t just “fear of future misfortunes.” They are irrational fears.
nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/anxiety-disorders/index.shtml
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
LOL I love people who post without reading the rest of the thread. Why don’t you check what I posted a few posts down?
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
LOL I love smart asses.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
With my anxiety attacks, they did not involve cognition, but the very strong, physical effects of anxiety were very discomforting.
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DBT
Guest
When speaking of anxiety from a spiritual perspective (rather than medical), it might be good to note that it is but one type of “passion” we are meant to mortify. We are challenged to free all our emotions - our joys, hopes, sorrows and fears - from that which is disordered. In this case, anxiety is simply a sub-set of fear.
We are human so of course we will naturally feel these emotions all the time. One sign, though, that we are growing “attached” is when we dwell on our feelings for longer than is necessary … which makes us (even if only momentarily) forgetful of God. And forgetfulness of God is the spiritual harm we should seek to avoid at all costs.
When such attachment to a joy, hope, sorrow or fear becomes persistent our spiritual imperfection is tending toward a “habit” which then assumes the risk of becoming disordered. That’s when the real trouble begins. Spiritual growth becomes stunted.
The solution is simple to understand but quite another to habitually put into practice … to pray without ceasing. In short, we recall our mind and heart back to God whenever we notice it strays … especially when we are clinging to some emotionally charged thought or feeling. Experience will likely show that it is more difficult to “let go” at such times … especially if we allow it to take root.
So this is very much an ascetic practice … difficult at first but with time and grace it may grow very natural and easy. It takes on a mystical dimension when it becomes second nature in us … almost like breathing.
Brother Lawrence’s “Practice of the Presence of God” is one very good example of how to begin putting these teachings into action.
Hope this helps …
Dave
We are human so of course we will naturally feel these emotions all the time. One sign, though, that we are growing “attached” is when we dwell on our feelings for longer than is necessary … which makes us (even if only momentarily) forgetful of God. And forgetfulness of God is the spiritual harm we should seek to avoid at all costs.
When such attachment to a joy, hope, sorrow or fear becomes persistent our spiritual imperfection is tending toward a “habit” which then assumes the risk of becoming disordered. That’s when the real trouble begins. Spiritual growth becomes stunted.
The solution is simple to understand but quite another to habitually put into practice … to pray without ceasing. In short, we recall our mind and heart back to God whenever we notice it strays … especially when we are clinging to some emotionally charged thought or feeling. Experience will likely show that it is more difficult to “let go” at such times … especially if we allow it to take root.
So this is very much an ascetic practice … difficult at first but with time and grace it may grow very natural and easy. It takes on a mystical dimension when it becomes second nature in us … almost like breathing.
Brother Lawrence’s “Practice of the Presence of God” is one very good example of how to begin putting these teachings into action.
Hope this helps …
Dave
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DBT
Guest
One more personal perspective …
Nuntym seemed to be describing a kind of epiphany type experience … a personal encounter with Jesus through Scripture that helps her with a particular struggle. These type of “infused knowings” are to be highly prized and are a great aid in the spiritual life. These “knowings” act like a kind of knife that no longer struggles to cut through bone and gristle … for now all is warm butter.
In my own case with anxiety, it was the “understanding” that came upon me that all I need to do is repeat a simple prayer throughout the day: “Jesus, how are you going to help me?” This prayer relentlessly places me in the here and now and I begin to “see” all the ways He helps me moment-by-moment … things my tendency toward introspection would normally drown out. No wonder St. John of the Cross describes the initial stirrings of contemplation to be so hard to discern … because the Beloved’s voice is so soft and subtle as to go unheard until we learn (or are taught) to still and silence ourselves. The fruit of this little prayer is that it turns my anxieties - which unchecked can sometimes be paralyzing - into a puddle of warm butter that doesn’t even need a knife.
But only if I trust.
If I don’t, I begin to sink into the water just like Peter. Or should I say butter?
And there is both mystery and joy in this “knowing.” The mystery is that I never really know “how” He will help me two or three steps down the line. The joy is in the finding out.
Dave
Nuntym seemed to be describing a kind of epiphany type experience … a personal encounter with Jesus through Scripture that helps her with a particular struggle. These type of “infused knowings” are to be highly prized and are a great aid in the spiritual life. These “knowings” act like a kind of knife that no longer struggles to cut through bone and gristle … for now all is warm butter.
In my own case with anxiety, it was the “understanding” that came upon me that all I need to do is repeat a simple prayer throughout the day: “Jesus, how are you going to help me?” This prayer relentlessly places me in the here and now and I begin to “see” all the ways He helps me moment-by-moment … things my tendency toward introspection would normally drown out. No wonder St. John of the Cross describes the initial stirrings of contemplation to be so hard to discern … because the Beloved’s voice is so soft and subtle as to go unheard until we learn (or are taught) to still and silence ourselves. The fruit of this little prayer is that it turns my anxieties - which unchecked can sometimes be paralyzing - into a puddle of warm butter that doesn’t even need a knife.
But only if I trust.
If I don’t, I begin to sink into the water just like Peter. Or should I say butter?
And there is both mystery and joy in this “knowing.” The mystery is that I never really know “how” He will help me two or three steps down the line. The joy is in the finding out.
Dave
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