Dealing with Atheist Anger

[TheAtheist]

I would imagine an atheist’s reason for being on this site specifically could run the gamut of reasons. Conversion to their way of thinking is undoubtedly one reason some may come. Trying to understand the Catholic perspective on issues spiritual, moral, temporal, is another (one doesn’t have to be an atheist non-Catholic to come on to CA for these reasons). Defense of their beliefs and positions is likely another.

Well the reason why i occasionally show up is to try and take a pulse if you will.

What are motivated Catholics thinking about these days?

No different than what I do on the other religious websites i frequent in one guise or another.

Religion becomes harder to ignore, even for the 100% sure and content atheist, when the followers of religion get all up in your business, particularly socially, politically, and morally.

I think that’s hitting the point really well…for all of us actually.

Whether i’m on a Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Islamic, Atheist, etc etc. website you are going to find a bandwidth of people. Nominally believers and “Apathists” don’t really spend their days on websites like this.

So - we have a concentration of people who are “motivated.” What does that motivation lead them to do?

I can’t help but think, after all these years sojourning through places like CAF or places in the real world that 95% of the people who want to overturn all the tables, establish some sort of (fill in the blank) Utopia, and think the world becomes all wine and roses if we are imbibing the same thoughts are:
1.) Really Young
2.) Have not had much work experience in either Government or Customer Service
3.) Have a tiny bit of the football hooligan in them.

From my…somewhat…informed perspective, i can’t help but think that beneath all these calls to usher in a new secularistic age, or a Christian one, or a ____ one, sits a bunch of evolutionary psychological drives that people usually label as “Tribalism.”

Its the reason why one of the first questions that pops into my mind whenever I encounter a new religion, philosophy, or social movement is: What is your treatment of the Stranger?

The Stranger = A Person who will not adapt to your views on life.

He/She isn’t hostile. He/She follows the rules of society. But he/she will never be a part of your Whole.

And the most disappointing thing i’ve encountered time and time and time again…is that whether you are Religious or Not, On the Political Left or Right, Of One Culture or Another… the desire to denigrate and smash the Stranger exists.

 

[Peccavi]

I do not confront Atheist Anger To do so is pointless. Better to live my Life to the best of my ability in the way Jesus taught and to seek the Kingdom of God among the poor, the marginalised and the oppressed as he did. By our works shall we be judge by others. Talk is cheap and conversion arrives through living out the faith.

 

[TheAtheist]

An angry atheist, in my opinion, is in danger of becoming a believer at some point because somewhere in their soul they are passionate about the idea of God. I think C.S. Lewis said something about atheists can’t be too careful.

I think the evangelical/angry/what-have-you atheists fit well into this category for a simple reason - the majority of them came from you guys.

They are active rejectors of religion… Which is why i can’t help be somewhat amused by that generally their first acts tend to be to

a.) find people who think like them
b.) proclaim their non-belief in public fashion
c.) proceed with social activities, book clubs, …campus bake sale (etc.)
d.) castigate anyone who doesn’t except their understanding of things.

I myself have often been accused by them as being:
     a.) Agent Provocateur = "Oh you must really be (fill in blank)"
     b.)  A Middle of the Roader/ "Fence Sitting" Atheist = The implication being THEY are doing all the hard work to roll back pernicious ideas and i'm just...... shirking an obligation of some sort.

Having seen the same exact pattern recur with people again…and again…and again…over the years I can’t help but think that the old American adage is correct.

Something about “You can take the girl out of Jersey, but you can’t take Jersey out of the Girl.”

Or perhaps a programming analogy might be better - They may have deleted “Christianity.exe” from their computer and loaded “New Atheism” on, but the Operating System is still exactly the same…with all the crashes, bugs, malware, and the blue screen of death…

Edit: I -literally- had a friend who went through this phase of “finding himself” which resulted in probably 3 yrs worth of bouncing through every possible major religion and atheism.

So he’d adopt all the cultural things (went around with a Tibetan name for a little while), and be a bit of a loud mouth regarding his current chosen way of life and its superiority over (insert blank).

But as I said after the end of that 3 yr period - “Dress you up every which way. You were still the same person throughout it all. So… did anything really change?”

It’s the cool, indifferent atheists who I worry about.

Pray for me then. I’ve got enough Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jains, Christians, and exactly 1 Taiwanese Daoist doing that for me right now.

Hmm… just realized… missing Jews in that mix. Perhaps i should rectify that at some point…

 

[Padres1969]

I think the evangelical/angry/what-have-you atheists fit well into this category for a simple reason - the majority of them came from you guys.

They are active rejectors of religion… Which is why i can’t help be somewhat amused by that generally their first acts tend to be to

a.) find people who think like them
b.) proclaim their non-belief in public fashion
c.) proceed with social activities, book clubs, …campus bake sale (etc.)
d.) castigate anyone who doesn’t except their understanding of things.

I myself have often been accused by them as being:
     a.) Agent Provocateur = "Oh you must really be (fill in blank)"
     b.)  A Middle of the Roader/ "Fence Sitting" Atheist = The implication being THEY are doing all the hard work to roll back pernicious ideas and i'm just...... shirking an obligation of some sort.

Having seen the same exact pattern recur with people again…and again…and again…over the years I can’t help but think that the old American adage is correct.

Something about “You can take the girl out of Jersey, but you can’t take Jersey out of the Girl.”

Or perhaps a programming analogy might be better - They may have deleted “Christianity.exe” from their computer and loaded “New Atheism” on, but the Operating System is still exactly the same…with all the crashes, bugs, malware, and the blue screen of death…

Edit: I -literally- had a friend who went through this phase of “finding himself” which resulted in probably 3 yrs worth of bouncing through every possible major religion and atheism.

So he’d adopt all the cultural things (went around with a Tibetan name for a little while), and be a bit of a loud mouth regarding his current chosen way of life and its superiority over (insert blank).

But as I said after the end of that 3 yr period - “Dress you up every which way. You were still the same person throughout it all. So… did anything really change?”

Pray for me then. I’ve got enough Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jains, Christians, and exactly 1 Taiwanese Daoist doing that for me right now.

Hmm… just realized… missing Jews in that mix. Perhaps i should rectify that at some point…

I like your analogy of some angry atheists being like a computer that has simply switched operating systems. The basic functions are the same, because they’ve been so programmed to be religious in a certain way that they often just swap WinReligion 10 for Linatheism 8.

 

[TheAtheist]

I like your analogy of some angry atheists being like a computer that has simply switched operating systems. The basic functions are the same, because they’ve been so programmed to be religious in a certain way that they often just swap WinReligion 10 for Linatheism 8.

Well to put it more formally - its about Habit formation and group dynamics.

There exists a very strong desire in human beings for community formation. Yes yes, there are outliers on the great big bell curve of humanity but on the whole people feel comfortable when being able to identify with a community of some sort.

So even if I remove the raison d’etre for the community meeting, in their case its a belief in a specific religious doctrine, the habits/desire is still there.

What we see with the New Atheists, the rank-and-file if you will, are mostly ex-religious people who never changed their habits. They just found a different expression for it.

Which puts people like myself and Neil deGrasse Tyson in a bit of a pickle - clarification for those who might not know what i mean is below.

youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

 

[Moro_Rock]

Well the reason why i occasionally show up is to try and take a pulse if you will.

What are motivated Catholics thinking about these days?

Whether i’m on a Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Islamic, Atheist, etc etc. website you are going to find a bandwidth of people. Nominally believers and “Apathists” don’t really spend their days on websites like this.

So - we have a concentration of people who are “motivated.” What does that motivation lead them to do?

Its the reason why one of the first questions that pops into my mind whenever I encounter a new religion, philosophy, or social movement is: What is your treatment of the Stranger?

The Stranger = A Person who will not adapt to your views on life.

He/She isn’t hostile. He/She follows the rules of society. But he/she will never be a part of your Whole.

.

In defense of the Catholic Church, you should know that the CC is the greatest charitable organisation in the world, in terms of what they contribute by way of donations and manpower to help people who have nothing.
You allude to Buddhist, Hindus, Islamic, Christian etc. who are motivated. What’s wrong with being motivated ? At least, they’re searching for something beyond themselves. They understand that, of and by themselves they are incomplete.
To simply believe in oneself and one’s own sufficiency is inward looking
The correct definition of a Stranger is 'someone who you don’t know ’
not as you redefine as ’ someone who will not adapt to your views of life ’
The only all-sufficient One is God
He loves us all. He doesn’t Need us. But He loves us.
On the other hand, we Do need Him :tiphat:

 

[abucs]

I find that sometimes the anger comes from believing they were lied to by a former group or faith. There is also often a strong need to be free from delusional thought and a pride in their own independence of thought.

If you can logically get them to question the soundness of their own atheism then often the anger will be transferred against the ‘atheism’ they uncritically accepted,

Atheism and Delusion – Think about it.

A Philosophical Argument for a Creator?

 

[rose_kelly]

Atheism and Delusion – Think about it.

A Philosophical Argument for a Creator?

Interesting details.

 

[Entwhistler]

I think the evangelical/angry/what-have-you atheists fit well into this category for a simple reason - the majority of them came from you guys.

They are active rejectors of religion… Which is why i can’t help be somewhat amused by that generally their first acts tend to be to

a.) find people who think like them
b.) proclaim their non-belief in public fashion
c.) proceed with social activities, book clubs, …**campus bake sale **(etc.)
d.) castigate anyone who doesn’t except their understanding of things.

An Atheist Bake Sale. Love it!

 

[SAVINGRACE]

My dad is an anti-theist, openly hostile and angry towards anything religious. Buddhism, Taoist, Jewish, Christian, Masons (yes he believes it’s a religion)…anything is fair game. Mum lets him rant on.

To his dismay all of his 5 children are practicing christians, 2 Anglicans, 2 Catholics and one Church of Nazarene. He views this outcome as his biggest failure as a parent. We view it as his biggest success and often remind that his excessive and open hatred of christianity is probably what drew us to it.

 

[Padres1969]

My dad is an anti-theist, openly hostile and angry towards anything religious. Buddhism, Taoist, Jewish, Christian, Masons (yes he believes it’s a religion)…anything is fair game. Mum lets him rant on.

To his dismay all of his 5 children are practicing christians, 2 Anglicans, 2 Catholics and one Church of Nazarene. He views this outcome as his biggest failure as a parent. We view it as his biggest success and often remind that his excessive and open hatred of christianity is probably what drew us to it.

Wow that’s quite the outcome for your dad. My aunt and uncle are generally pretty anti-theist too and their kids turned out the same way. Lutheran and Agnositc (but not opposed to religion).

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Wow that’s quite the outcome for your dad. My aunt and uncle are generally pretty anti-theist too and their kids turned out the same way. Lutheran and Agnositc (but not opposed to religion).

Mum tells him it’s his own fault entirely, he was the one who demanded we all go to Anglican or Catholic boarding schools.