Dealing with Cafeteria Catholic Family Members

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Here is the situation. I am a Catholic who is striving to grow in holiness by doing daily scripture readings, obeying the laws and teachings of the church, and daily prayer. However, I am having problems of telling other members of my family about certain actions being gravelly sinful (masturbation, drunkenness) as taught by the church, because they don’t view these acts as being sinful at all.

Let me give you one example of this scenario of mine. This past summer, I was playing cards with my family, and my brother happened to buy us some liquor bottles (mango flavored rum being one of them). After about three shots of rum, I told my mom that this was enough for me. Then my dad said that it is not a sin to get drunk. Then I said yes it was. After I said that, both my parents and older brother looked at me in disbelief. My dad then went to explain to me that Jesus served wine at the wedding at Cana and that people definitely got drunk there. I got a little ticked off inside after he said that, then grabbed one of the cards in the deck in an angry manner ( we were playing rum 500). Afterwards, everyone’s mood changed quickly, and my Mom yelled at me saying, “Look Mr Holier than thou, you do things that are sinful too, such as what you did just now, HYPOCRITE”. This latter led me knock my glass off the table onto the ground (Thank God this didn’t break). Then my mom said, I don’t remember exactly what she said, but it was something along the lines of “You’re not a very respectful person, specifically around people who gamble, smoke, swear, drink, etc.” which did have some truth. So, overall it turned out to be a very unsatisfying evening for me.

Now, I know that the manner in which I responded was the wrong way to deal with things like this, and I apologize for doing it. But if a thing like this happens next time, what would be the right way to explain and articulate to my other family members (and other people in my daily life and in the future, be it friends, other family members, acquaintances, co workers, and strangers) that certain actions go against the natural order of things, and how can I do it in a way that is not Holier than Thou, impulsive, disrespectful and not just because “The Church says So!!!”

I’ve also confessed this to a priest a few weeks later, but he didn’t give me a very good answer. So, I would appreciate any answers and advice from you guys. Thank you all for taking the time to read this post and give your answers.
 
I hate to say it but you can’t change your family. Clearly, this has a lot more to do with your family’s general attitude regarding behavior than Catholicism. They think it’s okay to get drunk, gamble, or whatever else. You cannot change that. Also, by continually exposing yourself to these situations, it’s making you appear as the villain or “holier than thou” because you would rather abide by a different standard of behavior than they wish to.

Personally, I would limit my time with them as being around family members who are like that tends to be a frustrating experience and is also an occasion of sin as it would just infuriate me. All you can do is pray for them and spend your time with people who share your views. I am sure there will be someone who is going to disagree with me but I have learned through my own familial experience AND being married and dealing with in laws that limiting your time is good for one’s sanity.
 
My father was a cafeteria catholic, I brought him to a father Larry Richards conference, he later that week denounced his catholic faith
 
iamcatholic100 said:
Here is the situation. I am a Catholic who is striving to grow in holiness by doing daily scripture readings, obeying the laws and teachings of the church, and daily prayer. However, I am having problems of telling other members of my family about certain actions being gravelly sinful (masturbation, drunkenness) as taught by the church, because they don’t view these acts as being sinful at all.

Let me give you one example of this scenario of mine. This past summer, I was playing cards with my family, and my brother happened to buy us some liquor bottles (mango flavored rum being one of them). After about three shots of rum, I told my mom that this was enough for me. Then my dad said that it is not a sin to get drunk. Then I said yes it was. After I said that, both my parents and older brother looked at me in disbelief. My dad then went to explain to me that Jesus served wine at the wedding at Cana and that people definitely got drunk there. I got a little ticked off inside after he said that, then grabbed one of the cards in the deck in an angry manner ( we were playing rum 500). Afterwards, everyone’s mood changed quickly, and my Mom yelled at me saying, “Look Mr Holier than thou, you do things that are sinful too, such as what you did just now, HYPOCRITE”. This latter led me knock my glass off the table onto the ground (Thank God this didn’t break). Then my mom said, I don’t remember exactly what she said, but it was something along the lines of “You’re not a very respectful person, specifically around people who gamble, smoke, swear, drink, etc.” which did have some truth. So, overall it turned out to be a very unsatisfying evening for me.

Now, I know that the manner in which I responded was the wrong way to deal with things like this, and I apologize for doing it. But if a thing like this happens next time, what would be the right way to explain and articulate to my other family members (and other people in my daily life and in the future, be it friends, other family members, acquaintances, co workers, and strangers) that certain actions go against the natural order of things, and how can I do it in a way that is not Holier than Thou, impulsive, disrespectful and not just because “The Church says So!!!”

I’ve also confessed this to a priest a few weeks later, but he didn’t give me a very good answer. So, I would appreciate any answers and advice from you guys. Thank you all for taking the time to read this post and give your answers.
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At this point, I think when someone says “x is not a sin”, you can say “no comment.”
 
Use actions of Christian charity, and fewer words. All you can do is set a good example and hope and pray that your family has an open heart for God’s grace and love.
 
iamcatholic100 said:
Here is the situation. I am a Catholic who is striving to grow in holiness by doing daily scripture readings, obeying the laws and teachings of the church, and daily prayer. However, I am having problems of telling other members of my family about certain actions being gravelly sinful (masturbation, drunkenness) as taught by the church, because they don’t view these acts as being sinful at all.

Let me give you one example of this scenario of mine. This past summer, I was playing cards with my family, and my brother happened to buy us some liquor bottles (mango flavored rum being one of them). After about three shots of rum, I told my mom that this was enough for me. Then my dad said that it is not a sin to get drunk. Then I said yes it was. After I said that, both my parents and older brother looked at me in disbelief. My dad then went to explain to me that Jesus served wine at the wedding at Cana and that people definitely got drunk there. I got a little ticked off inside after he said that, then grabbed one of the cards in the deck in an angry manner ( we were playing rum 500). Afterwards, everyone’s mood changed quickly, and my Mom yelled at me saying, “Look Mr Holier than thou, you do things that are sinful too, such as what you did just now, HYPOCRITE”. This latter led me knock my glass off the table onto the ground (Thank God this didn’t break). Then my mom said, I don’t remember exactly what she said, but it was something along the lines of “You’re not a very respectful person, specifically around people who gamble, smoke, swear, drink, etc.” which did have some truth. So, overall it turned out to be a very unsatisfying evening for me.

Now, I know that the manner in which I responded was the wrong way to deal with things like this, and I apologize for doing it. But if a thing like this happens next time, what would be the right way to explain and articulate to my other family members (and other people in my daily life and in the future, be it friends, other family members, acquaintances, co workers, and strangers) that certain actions go against the natural order of things, and how can I do it in a way that is not Holier than Thou, impulsive, disrespectful and not just because “The Church says So!!!”

I’ve also confessed this to a priest a few weeks later, but he didn’t give me a very good answer. So, I would appreciate any answers and advice from you guys. Thank you all for taking the time to read this post and give your answers.
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My entire family consists of lapsed Catholics, former Catholics, and Jews. I’m the only devout Catholic (but I’m working to make my Mom more devout).

While getting drunk is a sin, it is not a mortal sin. I try not to lecture anyone about Venial sins unless they ask me or if the Venial sin is affecting someone other than me.

I have found the the following confession app is very helpful in teaching about sin: “Mea Culpa”.

It helps you count your sins (both Venial and Mortal). I recommend this app to people all the time. It will help them learn what sins are Mortal and which ones are not. Also to learn what things do count as Venial sins.

In regards to masturbation, some people (including my own mother) get confused. Masturbation is a Mortal sin; however, masturbation is OK as a form of foreplay between husband and wife AS LONG AS the husband still ejaculates inside the vagina. This exception sometimes confuses people. Also, some people do not understand why it is sinful. Not only is it typically lustful and empty, but it can become addicting. Finally, you are spilling the seed of life. Even Jews consider it sinful to “spill the seed” (even the ones who do not have an issue with sex outside of marrage).

But anyway… get the app. It’s great. And if you feel the call to educate your family, pick one family member at a time. It’s workign for me.

God Bless.
 
Agreed with others. Not much you can do except set a good example. And it sounds to me, too, as if there’s more than simply lukewarm Catholicism going on here. But most people don’t take kindly to being told (especially repeatedly) that what they’re doing is a sin.
 
You can continue to practice the Faith in a manner that is expected and lead by example. That would mean you would not cuss, and that you might even politely refuse any alcoholic beverages with a simple “No thank-you, but I would like a soda.” (Just role playing here.)

I dealt with many family members who viewed me as a fanatic because of my practice of the Faith, but they did notice I lived by it. I was called a lot of names, and yes I did lose my cool on occasion. However, as I matured I simply realized that my actions said more than my words often did, and that if I did stay calm to any confrontation, it took away their steam so to speak. It is very hard to argue or get mad at someone who simply “turns the other cheek” if need be.

I even found occasions were I could start discussing something by agreeing with them. I was once accused of false modesty because of my modesty, and I simply replied that "I understood how they could feel that way, BUT I really did not find one of their behaviors appropriate. That simple bit of acknowledgement sort of calmed them down and “dowsed” the fire.
 
I am sorry but perhaps the three shots of rum got you more fired up and angry than anything your family actually did
 
What do you hope to accomplish by pointing out your family members’ failings to them? Do you think it will lead them to change their behavior? Your family has known you since you were born; they are well aware of YOUR sins and failings. Why would they want to take your pronouncements to heart since they do not believe you stand on a moral high ground and have reason to criticize them?

To paraphrase a PP, you’ll do better by walking the walk than merely talking the talk. Since you don’t seem to be able to handle these discussions well (you sound a little young to me), you’d be better off avoiding these discussions and focus on correcting YOUR sins so that you set an example they would want to follow.
 
Birdpreacher said:
I am sorry but perhaps the three shots of rum got you more fired up and angry than anything your family actually did
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If that were the case, it seems a little odd that they’d argue with the OP about the wisdom of pushing the chair away from the bar. 🤷
 
This thread is making me really sad, for a variety of reasons.

I don’t know you or your family, and I don’t want to sound like I’m judging them, but if I can share my honest opinion…The real issue here is not that they are “Cafeteria Catholics”… but that (based on what you’ve said) it sounds like they’re not Christians at all. And THAT is something to be concerned about.

Anyone who claims that Jesus got drunk or got OTHERS drunk does not know God or the most basics of Christianity (that Jesus is sinless, for example)

Also, anyone who says that getting drunk is not a sin hasn’t read the bible, as there are numerous scriptures that clearly state drunkenness is a sin.

As for what you should do. Speak the truth in love. Show them the scriptures that state the opposite of what he said. And you might want to point out the scripture in Revelations where Jesus talks about people who are lukewarm. There comes a point when one needs to make a decision. Pick a side, so to speak. Are you for God? Or not? The bible teaches that believing alone is not enough (even the demons believe…and tremble.) Jesus said that if we love Him, we will obey Him.

But one can’t obey Him, if they don’t even know what is in the bible, as (apparently) is the case with many cultural Christians/Catholics.

Also, pray for them. And be Jesus with skin on, so to speak. 🙂
 
Pointing out other people’s sins is usually not the best way to get them to change. We all become resentful and defensive when people disagree with us. (Just as you did when your dad disagreed with you.)

However, you should continue to act according to your faith but not be argumentitive.I’m suprised your dad was encouraging you to get drunk, it was right for you to not continue drinking, You didn’t need to get into the aspect of sinfulness though. Simply say, “I’ve had enough now, I’m switching to soda/water.”

At another time, if someone specifically asks “Hey why don’t you do X like you used to/like we all do?” You can say, “I’m happy without it. I find much more fulfillment with my faith, than with drink/partying.” If you *are *happy. If they can see that you are more content or less stressful, they will begin to understand.
 
My family is like that too. Cafeteria Catholics. Ya just gotta love em ya know! I don’t go anywhere without my Catechism book anymore. I never know who I will meet—a cafeteria Catholic itching to tell me all the evils of the faith or a protestant itching to tell me all the evils of the faith.

I can promise you one thing that each and everyone of them I have thanked because they forced me to bone up on Catholicism and bone up I did/do. It also forces them to take a good hard look at their lack of knowledge and anti-catholic beliefs that they have conjured up in their heads.

It is a great opportunity to have a discussion with them because a lot of questions get answered and if I don’t have the answer for them I open the Catechism book.

It really is an opportunity and I have CAF and quite a few of it’s members to thank.
 
Good for you. I have relatives who are Jehova Witnesses, and the misguided ideas and beliefs they have about Catholics is unbelievable. If a person needs or wants to defend the Faith they have to understand how these misconceptions come about and how to correct the misplaced ideas out there.
 
Cafeteria Catholics-
You can never go wrong doing what Christ did with e.g. the Samaritan Woman at the
fountain. He treated her with respect - knowing full well she was a public sinner-even while
ignoring the Jewish ban on being with such a person. Loving others and not judging them
does not in any way condone what they do. But judging others is always a very dangerous
business and not really helpful in a family situation. Their consciences certainly tell them
they can’t be serious about what they’re saying.
But I do disagree with all who say there is nothing you can do. Prayer is the most
powerful tool in the world when we pray in Jesus name. He loves your family more than you ever could-so with Jesus ask the Father to move the hearts of your family members. And if
you want to guarantee this give up the three shots of rum. Love conquers all./
 
From what you said, the family are partyers, and you are rain on their parade.
They could care less about what you want if it goes against the party creed.
You will get banged down every time you try to break up their party ways.

I don’t believe that is the time or the place, when they are drinking heavily.

What you might do is challenge them on health issues. Lots of those you could bring up. I don’t think that they could “gain say” you on that. Just tell them you hate to see them wreck their lives by cancer and ulcers. And just say that you aren’t going down that route.

If you mention sin they will just throw up all over you.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
Don’t let the enemy of your soul drag you down about this. Just let God use it for you to learn and move on. Family are the most difficult to help convert. They know us like a book and can “pounce on us” as soon as we steer in a questionable direction. Someone suggested avoiding them but I would not recommend that as that would certainly make you seem “holier than them”…instead pray, pray, pray for them and ask they Lord and his Saints to pray for you. Work on your salvation and continue to grow. Don’t worry about your failures but continue to confess and give everything to our Lord and His Blessed Mother. They will do the rest. 🙂

Stay close to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,

mlz
 
Thank you for all your responses!! The bottom line is I have nothing against my family members. I love them with all my heart, as well as they with me. They have made mistakes in the past; I have made mistakes in the past. I am thankful for all the sacrifices the have made to help me get to where I am today. I will pray for them and the next time an issue with morality or theology comes up, I will resolve the issue with the utmost charity. Overall, God is in charge, not me.
 
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