Dealing with "Christians"

[SMHW]

I think I would have been a bit less confrontational.

As Catholics we are free to pray with our fellow non-Catholic Christians so long as we are not compromising our Catholic beliefs. I too would have been uncomfortable with someone wanting to pray “over me”. (I would have been uncomfortable if a Catholic wished to pray over me that way.)

I think I would have told this woman that in my Christian tradition close proximity in prayer is not necessary for prayer and it makes you a bit uncomfortable. But she would be still be welcome to pray for you. After all, Christ healed the centurion’s servant from afar so certainly she can pray for you from afar (just as the saints in heaven pray for those of us on earth.)

I have no issue with defending Catholicism against attacks. But I prefer to demonstrate that we have the fullness of the teachings of Christ rather than confirming the mistaken opinions of non-Catholics about what we lack.

 

[Bev17243]

I’ve been attending RC and planning on starting RCIA soon. Most of the people I know are Evangelicals and the OP situation have happened to me over and over again. After it happens to you too many times, you get real tired of people attacking RC and for the most part, they are not interested in hearing anything about RC, they just want to “save” you. So yes, while I used to be a bit more wishy washy to anyone like the lady in question, no more. I’m still polite to them but if they are ranting about the evils of RC, I will speak up(politely) and tell them the truth. I have prayed with my Evangelical friends and still do but I politely decline if someone wants to pray “over me”. OP has my sympathy

 

[SummerSmiles]

I hope this is the right place to post this… First time here! So glad to find a Catholic board!

So yesterday I was in the parking lot at Target, and a woman approached me while I was loading my car. She said she liked my bumper stickers (they are pro life) and said she was glad to see someone making a statement for unborn children. I thanked her. She then asked if she could pray “over” me for protection, because her own car was vandalized when she had pro-life stickers on it. I was a little taken aback, and asked her what parish she belonged to. She said she went to a “church” in town called REALITY. Now, I know what this is. It is a big “come as you are, anything goes” church that some “pastor” invented on his own. They pride themselves on being open to anyone and as far as I know, there is no oversight or hierarchy in the “religion” - some guy just reads the Bible and says whatever he wants on Sunday morning while wearing Birkenstocks.

I told the woman that I’d rather she not pray over me, because she did not attend a valid church. She said she was Christian and didn’t I worship Jesus. I said that of course I did, but that I consider “REALITY” to be heretical, the pastor to be invalid, and the attendees to be in grave error. She said the “church” had many former Catholics. I said they were in a state of mortal sin for their attendance at “REALITY.” She said the Catholic Church was who was in error because we do not adhere to the Scriptures. I said that The Catholic Church is the one true church that Christ founded, and that there is zero salvation outside of Catholicism. She said I was “So wrong” and that she would pray for me that I would see the truth. I said I already knew the truth, and that I hoped she would stop attending a false church so that she could attain salvation. She stomped away.

I am still really flustered here. I know that Catholics do not “witness” to others like some of the more obnoxious “faiths” out there. We do not approach people in parking lots and ask to “pray over them.” I am just not sure if I handled this well. I got pretty upset and I might have offended this person.

Any ideas on how we should deal with these so-called Christians when we are faced with the falsehood of their religion. Clearly I could have done it better! The thing is, their churches do a good job of making them “feel good” and it’s hard to explain that going to church is not about getting pumped and feeling energized as though it were a concert!

She was trying to reach out to a fellow pro-life person. If her request to pray over you made you uncomfortable, you could have made a polite reply of “no, thank you” or suggested that you both pray together, or ask that she continue to pray for you instead. She’s a fellow Christian, right? That means that we all worship the same God. She might not have a complete picture of who God is, but she still worships the same God. Catholics are free to pray like this with other Christians.

We are meant to evangelize, but we will not win any friends by pushing people away, which is what you did. You attacked her church and her beliefs when all she asked was to say a prayer over you. I agree that she doesn’t know the Truth; but you’re not likely to win anyone over by saying, “You’re so wrong, and I’m so right because I know the Truth.” (You’ll catch more bees with honey than vinegar.) As for there being “zero salvation outside of Catholicism,” as Catholics we do believe that following the Catholic church’s teachings can lead us to salvation. But we DO NOT say that all others who don’t follow our ways can not be saved. We are not fit to judge another person’s soul in that manner, that is something reserved for God.

This could have been a chance for her to interact with you and leave thinking that maybe some Catholics weren’t all that bad after all. I personally know a convert whose main “push” to look into Catholicism was that he saw all the Catholic people at pro-life events. He started to think to himself, “they can’t be all bad if they believe in something so good… maybe they do have a few things right.” This could have been your moment to prove that Catholics aren’t “all that bad.” Instead, you probably solidified in this woman’s mind how arrogant and wrong Catholics are. That’s unfortunate, but I hope that by thinking about your reaction this time, you might find a more charitable way to react to something like this in the future.

 

[lutherlic]

First of all, her salvation is through the Catholic Church…regardless of where she attends and you will not convince her in a quick controversial conversation in a parking lot. That is why we learn apologetics. Her salvation is still through the Catholic Church…even if she never admits it. What they DO have is from the Church God esablished.

Praying together would have been a good thing. You flustered her too, and now, she will think she is being attacked by the enemy or something. So pray for her. We are supposed to be ready in season and out, just like they are. We should be ready to pray with one another even if it is uncomfortable.

You did fine in your confrontation except that it startled you and I think what you are feeling must be akin to “dadgum, I wish I had handled that better and actually gave her food for thought”.

I have been in her shoes, and I am in yours now. Our church is reaching out to those who have fallen away and protest our traditions. Our Church in Mass includes more scripture than any other denomination that splintered from us…observe when you go next. You know how to find her, if you are feeling very bold. but first get yourself an apologetics book and learn how to handle these misconceptions with the undergirding of knowledge.

I am not being critical of you, you used the tools you have. You know the Catholic church is the one true church started (before the scriptures were even collaborated). Jesus left us a church not a bible first.

Yesterday, my daughter had to to a Choral competition in a different denomination and she sees what protesting has done to the sacred. our Altar is rich with history…their history too. The old testament is in our altar…we have the altar of sacrifice, the special priestly garments, the basin, the tabernacle which contains Jesus in the form of bread. We have all those things they read about in the old testament.

Now, you have been properly introduced to the problem, it may be a journey you are called to walk and help others realize there is more to faith than cheerleading God and reading the bible.

The OP was flustered and did the best she could. The lady was flustered by the OP.

In hindsight, this could have been handled much better. This lady is a Christian and shares our values on life (which, sadly, can not be said of all Catholics). Sure, she lacks the fullness of the faith - but that is something we can pray for as we pray for the conversion of everyone including ourselves.

There would not have been anything wrong in accepting the kindness of the prayer she offered.

 

[GraceDK]

I agree that she doesn’t know the Truth; but you’re not likely to win anyone over by saying, “You’re so wrong, and I’m so right because I know the Truth.” .

She doesn’t know the truth with a big T, you say. How do you know that?
As far as I am concerned Jesus Christ said “I am the Truth, no one comes to the Father except through Me”.

That’s the first and foremost teaching of Christianity.
I find it audacious to say a fellow Christian does not know the Truth.

Jesus disciplined his apostles when they wanted to tell another person to stop healing people in His Name, and He said: “Those who are not against Me are with Me”…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

46 responses and no further feedback from the OP…hmmmmmm…

 

[EasterJoy]

She doesn’t know the truth with a big T, you say. How do you know that?
As far as I am concerned Jesus Christ said “I am the Truth, no one comes to the Father except through Me”.

That’s the first and foremost teaching of Christianity.
I find it audacious to say a fellow Christian does not know the Truth.

Jesus disciplined his apostles when they wanted to tell another person to stop healing people in His Name, and He said: “Those who are not against Me are with Me”…

The Lord also instructed the Twelve that those who would not hear them would be under judgement, and that the Twelve were to “shake the dust of your feet in testimony against them.”

“He summoned the Twelve and began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over unclean spirits. He instructed them to take nothing for the journey but a walking stick - no food, no sack, no money in their belts. They were, however, to wear sandals but not a second tunic. He said to them, “Wherever you enter a house, stay there until you leave from there. Whatever place does not welcome you or listen to you, leave there and shake the dust off your feet in testimony against them.” So they went off and preached repentance. They drove out many demons, and they anointed with oil many who were sick and cured them.” Mark 6:7-13

*"Then he summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits to drive them out and to cure every disease and every illness…“As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’…Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words - go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.” * Matt. 10:1,7-8,14-15

He also said: *“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” *Matt. 16:17-19

The Church recognizes the validity of non-Catholic Christian baptism, but also recognizes that those who have separated themselves from the teaching and authority handed down by Apostolic Succession suffer from a true and substantial loss. That is the truth, with a big T.

 

[aloe]

She approached you and complimented your stickers, agreed with your pro-life stance, and wanted to pray with you. In return you insulted her faith.
I like this response.

I would have thanked her for her prayers and invited her to our Pro Life group at the Parish.

 

[GraceDK]

The Lord also instructed the Twelve that those who would not hear them would be under judgement, and that the Twelve were to “shake the dust of your feet in testimony against them.”

“He summoned the Twelve and began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over unclean spirits. He instructed them to take nothing for the journey but a walking stick - no food, no sack, no money in their belts. They were, however, to wear sandals but not a second tunic. He said to them, “Wherever you enter a house, stay there until you leave from there. Whatever place does not welcome you or listen to you, leave there and shake the dust off your feet in testimony against them.” So they went off and preached repentance. They drove out many demons, and they anointed with oil many who were sick and cured them.” Mark 6:7-13

"Then he summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits to drive them out and to cure every disease and every illness…"As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’…Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words - go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town." Matt. 10:1,7-8,14-15

He also said: "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt. 16:17-19

The Church recognizes the validity of non-Catholic Christian baptism, but also recognizes that those who have separated themselves from the teaching and authority handed down by Apostolic Succession suffer from a true and substantial loss. That is the truth, with a big T.

Two things to note here.
I think you hit me in the head with Scripture while you read things into those passages, which you would like for them to say. The apostles were to spead the Good News that Christ had come, had died, risen again and saved his people from its sin.
The OP did not try to preach the Gospel to anyone. She insulted another Christian. God might have sent the Catholic to her to help her to the next level… however to call a person a heretic etc, is certainly not in line with Church teaching about todays Evangelicals. God
is the judge, not you, and not the OP.

And maybe because I am a convert and haven’t always been Catholic I know that Christ works outside of the Catholic Institution and that indeed He is bigger than any Church.
Christ is the Truth. Him we worship. We do not worship the Church, and we should not judge other Christians who, for the most part have never met a Catholic who evangelised in a good way, or who have never been catechised.

 

[MomandWife]

I am surprised so many of you think that what I said to this Christian was uncharitable and rude. I have long wondered how to deal with these types of “Christians” that come from strip mall churches, megachurches, or any other kind of sham place of worship. Now, I understand that our step-siblings, the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, even some Methodists are members of semi-valid religions. But “REALITY?” Even the name is preposterous. There is only one real church. The Catholic Church. Period. And while some Protestant faiths do have some of the truth - I doubt REALITY does. Best I can tell, REALITY is about showing up in jeans (no problem if you miss a Sunday - there is no obligation), grooving out, waving your hands in the air, making up your own rules based on what’s convenient, and getting a bumper sticker that says “REALITY.” Spare me.

All around our town these “churches” are popping up. Vineyard. Anthem. Crossroads. Jubilee. Nexxus. Rocksolid. REALITY. It’s a joke and it needs to be stopped. Every single one of these churches considers itself “nondenominational Christian.” That means the “pastor” makes up whatever he wants, and there are no rules or oversight. It’s just one guy making a mint off of grooving and shouting and making people feel like whatever they want to do is okay. These “pastors” are leading people AWAY from the fullness of truth, and away from salvation - and luring their sheep with promises of “no expectations, no stuffy ceremony, no tradition.” It’s appalling and I’m sick of it!

Yes, I could have done better with this lady. I could have lectured her and her daughter (she had about a 7 year old girl with her) better, I could have been more composed. Sure. But let her pray over me? With her strip mall “Christianity?” No, thank you ma’am!

 

[graceandglory]

I think the way you responded was rude, uncalled for, uncharitable and an uneffective method of Christian witnessing. If someone offered to pray over me, I would be very happy. You could have let her pray over your car and then offered a prayer for the unborn. We didn’t even hear the other lady’s point of view, but from yours alone, I expect she probably thinks very poorly of the Church now and will probably close herself off to full communion with Christ’s Church because of it. If you had prayed with this lady, you could have made a real difference. I know it can be irritating to be acosted in the parking lot, particularly when you are in a hurry, but I think we are still obligated to be good witnesses.

I agree too. Please read my signature line.
She recognized you as a sister in Christ.
The Catholic Church recognizes her as a sister in Christ, working out her salvation, and one of our separated brethren.

Just because you are unfamiliar with evangelistic ways, doesn’t make them wrong.
When I was confirmed, my bishop rested his hands on me and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit, in order to be a soldier in Christ.

Better grace next time.
Welcome to CAF, BTW. We will give you another chance.

 

[graceandglory]

I am surprised so many of you think that what I said to this Christian was uncharitable and rude. I have long wondered how to deal with these types of “Christians” that come from strip mall churches, megachurches, or any other kind of sham place of worship. Now, I understand that our step-siblings, the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, even some Methodists are members of semi-valid religions. But “REALITY?” Even the name is preposterous. There is only one real church. The Catholic Church. Period. And while some Protestant faiths do have some of the truth - I doubt REALITY does. Best I can tell, REALITY is about showing up in jeans (no problem if you miss a Sunday - there is no obligation), grooving out, waving your hands in the air, making up your own rules based on what’s convenient, and getting a bumper sticker that says “REALITY.” Spare me.

All around our town these “churches” are popping up. Vineyard. Anthem. Crossroads. Jubilee. Nexxus. Rocksolid. REALITY. It’s a joke and it needs to be stopped. Every single one of these churches considers itself “nondenominational Christian.” That means the “pastor” makes up whatever he wants, and there are no rules or oversight. It’s just one guy making a mint off of grooving and shouting and making people feel like whatever they want to do is okay. These “pastors” are leading people AWAY from the fullness of truth, and away from salvation - and luring their sheep with promises of “no expectations, no stuffy ceremony, no tradition.” It’s appalling and I’m sick of it!

Yes, I could have done better with this lady. I could have lectured her and her daughter (she had about a 7 year old girl with her) better, I could have been more composed. Sure. But let her pray over me? With her strip mall “Christianity?” No, thank you ma’am!

Truth in Love. Truth in LOVE.

 

[Debora123]

I am surprised so many of you think that what I said to this Christian was uncharitable and rude. I have long wondered how to deal with these types of “Christians” that come from strip mall churches, megachurches, or any other kind of sham place of worship. Now, I understand that our step-siblings, the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, even some Methodists are members of semi-valid religions. But “REALITY?” Even the name is preposterous. There is only one real church. The Catholic Church. Period. And while some Protestant faiths do have some of the truth - I doubt REALITY does. Best I can tell, REALITY is about showing up in jeans (no problem if you miss a Sunday - there is no obligation), grooving out, waving your hands in the air, making up your own rules based on what’s convenient, and getting a bumper sticker that says “REALITY.” Spare me.

All around our town these “churches” are popping up. Vineyard. Anthem. Crossroads. Jubilee. Nexxus. Rocksolid. REALITY. It’s a joke and it needs to be stopped. Every single one of these churches considers itself “nondenominational Christian.” That means the “pastor” makes up whatever he wants, and there are no rules or oversight. It’s just one guy making a mint off of grooving and shouting and making people feel like whatever they want to do is okay. These “pastors” are leading people AWAY from the fullness of truth, and away from salvation - and luring their sheep with promises of “no expectations, no stuffy ceremony, no tradition.” It’s appalling and I’m sick of it!

Yes, I could have done better with this lady. I could have lectured her and her daughter (she had about a 7 year old girl with her) better, I could have been more composed. Sure. But let her pray over me? With her strip mall “Christianity?” No, thank you ma’am!

:nope:

Sounds like you really have learned nothing from what anyone here has told you… what a shame.

 

[Slinger]

How can a person be “pro-life”, yet hate people at the same time? Seems like a contradiction to me…

 

[mini_me640]

Troll? The writing style in OPs posts is very similar to a couple of other recent threads started by first time posters (josephite marriage and 7 kids threads). The OP on the other two threads also asked opinions and then refused to see any other point of view than they expressed originally. I’m feeling like these have all been the same person trying to get people worked up.

 

[Millie123]

I don’t understand what the big deal is about praying with someone of a different faith, having them pray with you, or over you. Prayer is not an insult, it’s an act of charity, and it’s a way to be intercessors for eachother. She was wanting to pray for your safety. There is nothing unchristian about her request, Although I do see how her approaching you in a parking lot may have taken you off guard. I do however feel that it is an act of pride on your part to refuse someones prayers. As if you don’t need them. ALL of us need prayers. Why would her prayers be any less special or acceptable to God because she’s not Catholic and belongs to Reality church?

I do have anecdotal things to say about praying with people of different faiths. I’m an ICU nurse and I’ve sometimes been asked by a few patient’s families to pray with them over their dying family member. Usually it’s just an Our Father and a request for God to bless that person. I’ve prayed with a mormon gentelman over his dying mother. I’ve also prayed with a with a Baptist woman over her husband who was having a massive heart attack.
I just think that as Catholics when we are asked to pray for someone our response should be “absolutely.” And when prayers our offered for us our response should be “thank you” and then do the same for that person. Prayer is a wonderful source of God’s grace.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I am surprised so many of you think that what I said to this Christian was uncharitable and rude. I have long wondered how to deal with these types of “Christians” that come from strip mall churches, megachurches, or any other kind of sham place of worship. Now, I understand that our step-siblings, the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, even some Methodists are members of semi-valid religions. But “REALITY?” Even the name is preposterous. There is only one real church. The Catholic Church. Period. And while some Protestant faiths do have some of the truth - I doubt REALITY does. Best I can tell, REALITY is about showing up in jeans (no problem if you miss a Sunday - there is no obligation), grooving out, waving your hands in the air, making up your own rules based on what’s convenient, and getting a bumper sticker that says “REALITY.” Spare me.

All around our town these “churches” are popping up. Vineyard. Anthem. Crossroads. Jubilee. Nexxus. Rocksolid. REALITY. It’s a joke and it needs to be stopped. Every single one of these churches considers itself “nondenominational Christian.” That means the “pastor” makes up whatever he wants, and there are no rules or oversight. It’s just one guy making a mint off of grooving and shouting and making people feel like whatever they want to do is okay. These “pastors” are leading people AWAY from the fullness of truth, and away from salvation - and luring their sheep with promises of “no expectations, no stuffy ceremony, no tradition.” It’s appalling and I’m sick of it!

Yes, I could have done better with this lady. I could have lectured her and her daughter (she had about a 7 year old girl with her) better, I could have been more composed. Sure. But let her pray over me? With her strip mall “Christianity?” No, thank you ma’am!

We saw in the local news that one mega-church, “Faith Center” here in my city has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. They are in debt to the tune of 12,000,000 dollars for the construction of a larger worship room. (They call it a sanctuary) Because of the recession their offerings have fallen way off. The founding pastor who is in his 80s and is retired handed over the reigns to his son-in-law. I always thought, even when I attended there, that their doctrine was a bit shady, that this grooving to what amounts to rock music was a whole lot off the charts, and starting a worship center (not a church) in an abandoned school and having continual building projects would someday be their undoing. As Jesus said “By their fruits you shall know them.” Of course we recently heard of the Crystal Cathedral of Dr Schuller in California has gone the same route (bankruptcy) In 2002 I left that rat race (where only the rats were winning) and became Catholic where the center of attention is not some pastor with a charming personality, lots of charisma, and speaking ability, but a little golden box that contains the King of KIngs and Lord of Lords in the blessed Sacrament:thumbsup:

 

[LegoGE1947]

I don’t understand what the big deal is about praying with someone of a different faith, having them pray with you, or over you. Prayer is not an insult, it’s an act of charity, and it’s a way to be intercessors for eachother. She was wanting to pray for your safety. There is nothing unchristian about her request, Although I do see how her approaching you in a parking lot may have taken you off guard. I do however feel that it is an act of pride on your part to refuse someones prayers. As if you don’t need them. ALL of us need prayers. Why would her prayers be any less special or acceptable to God because she’s not Catholic and belongs to Reality church?

I do have anecdotal things to say about praying with people of different faiths. I’m an ICU nurse and I’ve sometimes been asked by a few patient’s families to pray with them over their dying family member. Usually it’s just an Our Father and a request for God to bless that person. I’ve prayed with a mormon gentelman over his dying mother. I’ve also prayed with a with a Baptist woman over her husband who was having a massive heart attack.
I just think that as Catholics when we are asked to pray for someone our response should be “absolutely.” And when prayers our offered for us our response should be “thank you” and then do the same for that person. Prayer is a wonderful source of God’s grace.

I would be glad to let someone pray over me as long as they don’t pray that I’ll see the error of my ways and leave the catholic church. It’s fine to pray and be prayed over for other things. How should I as a Catholic respond if someone offers to pray for me that I’ll stop being stupid and become protestant or Jehovah Witness or whatever?

 

[Castello]

Just like Jesus said, they will know we are Christians by how well we lecture all non-Catholics.

 

[Debora123]

I would be glad to let someone pray over me as long as they don’t pray that I’ll see the error of my ways and leave the catholic church. It’s fine to pray and be prayed over for other things. How should I as a Catholic respond if someone offers to pray for me that I’ll stop being stupid and become protestant or Jehovah Witness or whatever?

…Um that’s not what the lady offered to do when she approached the OP in the parking lot and asked to pray.