Dealing with "Christians"

[Castello]

The OP confirmed every outlandish thing that this woman ever heard about Catholics. Next time, show her that we are Christians.

 

[rhiannonh]

So its fine for a catholic to tell a non catholic that their faith isn’t christian but if a non catholic tells a catholic they are not christian then its not fine. read the opening post again before you jump in on my comment

 

[mini_me640]

We saw in the local news that one mega-church, “Faith Center” here in my city has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. They are in debt to the tune of 12,000,000 dollars for the construction of a larger worship room. (They call it a sanctuary) Because of the recession their offerings have fallen way off. The founding pastor who is in his 80s and is retired handed over the reigns to his son-in-law. I always thought, even when I attended there, that their doctrine was a bit shady, that this grooving to what amounts to rock music was a whole lot off the charts, and starting a worship center (not a church) in an abandoned school and having continual building projects would someday be their undoing. As Jesus said “By their fruits you shall know them.” Of course we recently heard of the Crystal Cathedral of Dr Schuller in California has gone the same route (bankruptcy) In 2002 I left that rat race (where only the rats were winning) and became Catholic where the center of attention is not some pastor with a charming personality, lots of charisma, and speaking ability, but a little golden box that contains the King of KIngs and Lord of Lords in the blessed Sacrament:thumbsup:

Be careful with this line of reasoning lest someone bring up the sex abuse scandal and say “by their fruits shall you know them”. There are good and bad leaders in every denomination.

 

[choose_to_love]

Since we’re still going, I agree with deb123, allegra,aicirt, bezant, etc. OP turned it into a confrontation, unintentionally or not. OP called her interlocutor’s church and pastor invalid, and her beliefs heretical, all stemming from a common pro-life belief, in which the interlocutor wanted to pray for protection for OP, based on the interlocutor’s actual experience. There is no practical or pragmatic way that I can see to call someone’s ecclesial community “invalid” and beliefs heretical within five minutes of meeting them in a parking lot, under the circumstances described (which is an important qualifier), and expect that to be received in a manner that would lead the person to examine their beliefs. Objectively, OP is of course generally correct (not sure about heretical depending on where the members are coming from) about the ecclesial communities in her town, but it being true and being said in a way that is actually effective are two different things.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I would be glad to let someone pray over me as long as they don’t pray that I’ll see the error of my ways and leave the catholic church. It’s fine to pray and be prayed over for other things. How should I as a Catholic respond if someone offers to pray for me that I’ll stop being stupid and become protestant or Jehovah Witness or whatever?

Well, if someone actually phrases their offer that way, I suppose you would say, “no thanks.” But more likely what you’re wondering is if an objectionable prayer like that is done in the middle of prayer, after you’ve already agreed to it, right? My answer would be not to worry, because we know that God knows the truth. Follow through with that worry, and you end up with God actually getting you to leave the Catholic faith - is that really believable that God would do that just because a Jehovah’s Witness is confused? The way I see it is that God is bigger than that wrong prayer and he is not going to make it happen just because a JW wants it to, especially if you are also praying for God’s Will to be done. I have Mormons and JW’s knock on my door every now and then, and my standard answer is “why don’t we pray for each other.” I’m not afraid that their prayers are going to convert me. God can take a JW’s well intentioned prayer for me to “see the light and be converted” and answer it in any way he wants - for example, he might help me to see the light better and be drawn more strongly to the Catholic faith. God is not a puppet on anyone’s string.

Of course, if a prayer is too offensive, you can always stop praying at any time. More than likely though, someone isn’t going to be so rude as to pray in that way at a time like that. If there are little things that you can’t say “Amen” to, then add your own prayer (again, trying not to be offensive either ). That is why my suggestion to the OP was to say, “Actually I’d rather we pray together. Let’s start with an Our Father.” Take the lead, pray in a way that won’t be offensive to either one of you, and don’t worry.

 

[Bookcat]

Such must be handled with “truth and charity”.

And as the Church approaches our fellow Christians (or those who are not such as Mormons)

 

[GraceDK]

We saw in the local news that one mega-church, “Faith Center” here in my city has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. They are in debt to the tune of 12,000,000 dollars for the construction of a larger worship room. (They call it a sanctuary) Because of the recession their offerings have fallen way off. The founding pastor who is in his 80s and is retired handed over the reigns to his son-in-law. I always thought, even when I attended there, that their doctrine was a bit shady, that this grooving to what amounts to rock music was a whole lot off the charts, and starting a worship center (not a church) in an abandoned school and having continual building projects would someday be their undoing. As Jesus said “By their fruits you shall know them.” Of course we recently heard of the Crystal Cathedral of Dr Schuller in California has gone the same route (bankruptcy) In 2002 I left that rat race (where only the rats were winning) and became Catholic where the center of attention is not some pastor with a charming personality, lots of charisma, and speaking ability, but a little golden box that contains the King of KIngs and Lord of Lords in the blessed Sacrament:thumbsup:

In Europe a LOT of Catholic parishes are in real financial trouble… so lets not judge others.
Besides… a pastor with preaching ability is something we NEED big time in Europe. Maybe you could spare us some. I used to go to the Pentecostals because I was very edified by their preaching and testimonies and seeing people get healed from dieseases… Yep, all things things are good for the edification of the congregation like Paul said. He also said that its by hearing we come to believe.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

That is one of the rudest things I have ever heard of, and I am very concerned about the number of people who responded by telling the OP that she handled it perfectly.

Being a Catholic does not get you out of basic manners and treating people with respect. That woman was trying to show you a kindness, not convert you. Not only did you insult her, it also seems that you gave a lot of misinformation about your faith (what constitutes a valid baptism, etc) and chances are you don’t know as much about her church or why she goes there as you think you do. There is a big difference between standing up for your faith and throwing the kind of holier-than-thou fit that you did.

She wanted to pray for you because she saw you as fighting for a noble cause and she wanted your energy and passion for that cause to stay strong even when faced with adversary.

I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in prayer, and yes, sometimes I do think its a little silly. But I have never, ever turned someone down who asked if they could pray for me, much less ripped them a new one. When people offer to pray for me its because they want me to be safe, healthy, strong, and happy. I couldn’t imagine responding the way that you did to someone who just wants to help. Now if they want to pray for my conversion that’s something they’ll have to do on their own time. I’m not going to go along with that because its insulting, but so far no one has ever tried (out loud in front of me at least).

Chewing someone out for wanting to pray (to the exact same god you worship) for you said far more about who you are as a person than it did about that woman’s church.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Troll? The writing style in OPs posts is very similar to a couple of other recent threads started by first time posters (josephite marriage and 7 kids threads). The OP on the other two threads also asked opinions and then refused to see any other point of view than they expressed originally. I’m feeling like these have all been the same person trying to get people worked up.

You and I are thinking along the same lines. First time poster with a situation that’s a little “out there” and subsequent posts that not only chide people who respond but also push the issue more to the extreme.

Makes one go

Luna

 

[shainski]

I am surprised so many of you think that what I said to this Christian was uncharitable and rude. I have long wondered how to deal with these types of “Christians” that come from strip mall churches, megachurches, or any other kind of sham place of worship. Now, I understand that our step-siblings, the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, even some Methodists are members of semi-valid religions. But “REALITY?” Even the name is preposterous. There is only one real church. The Catholic Church. Period. And while some Protestant faiths do have some of the truth - I doubt REALITY does. Best I can tell, REALITY is about showing up in jeans (no problem if you miss a Sunday - there is no obligation), grooving out, waving your hands in the air, making up your own rules based on what’s convenient, and getting a bumper sticker that says “REALITY.” Spare me.

All around our town these “churches” are popping up. Vineyard. Anthem. Crossroads. Jubilee. Nexxus. Rocksolid. REALITY. It’s a joke and it needs to be stopped. Every single one of these churches considers itself “nondenominational Christian.” That means the “pastor” makes up whatever he wants, and there are no rules or oversight. It’s just one guy making a mint off of grooving and shouting and making people feel like whatever they want to do is okay. These “pastors” are leading people AWAY from the fullness of truth, and away from salvation - and luring their sheep with promises of “no expectations, no stuffy ceremony, no tradition.” It’s appalling and I’m sick of it!

Yes, I could have done better with this lady. I could have lectured her and her daughter (she had about a 7 year old girl with her) better, I could have been more composed. Sure. But let her pray over me? With her strip mall “Christianity?” No, thank you ma’am!

I disagree with you.

We are all on our own journeys to learn truth. But when you attack an individual on their beliefs, you will usually get them to be defensive and attack back (which is what she did to your attacks).

If your goal was to get out of the parking lot quickly, a sincere “Thank you for supporting the Pro Life cause…but I don’t have time right now”. would have gotten you away without further discussion.

If your goal was to enlighten her to your faith, then participating in her prayer - would give you and opportunity for further dialog - and perhaps a chance to share your message with her.

When i was in second grade, i remembered a priest telling us : “Even though they aren’t catholic, they can still get into heaven.”.

And i always thought i was being quite charitable by being accepting of others, until one day in college a baptist friend of mine told me at breakfast. When i was a kid, we were told “Even though they are catholics, they can still get into heaven.”

All of a sudden it hit me (like a ton of bricks). The message from my second grade priest came swarming back into my mind.

My mind read the message as:

“Even though there is something wrong with them, they can still get into heaven.”

how arrogant it is. That room mate didn’t mean any harm. I didn’t chastise his comment. But it made me realize that there are ways to engage with another person with insulting them. In fact, insulting them won’t work - they will close their minds and hearts to what you have to say.

Yes, i think you should have said “No thank you” gracefully. To have done more was more damaging to your cause in the long run.

Actually, what would be the harm in having someone pray even if you didn’t believe it. Let’s say someone said. “I will pray to Zeus for your recovery.”. Well you know that Zeus doesn’t exist. So why should matter to you? It’s not like Zeus is going to strike you down for your disbelief.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Troll? The writing style in OPs posts is very similar to a couple of other recent threads started by first time posters (josephite marriage and 7 kids threads). The OP on the other two threads also asked opinions and then refused to see any other point of view than they expressed originally. I’m feeling like these have all been the same person trying to get people worked up.

Good catch. All three posters do seem to really enjoy exclamation points!!!(and ellipses as well).

 

[Marianna_Mills]

I think you were rude to her. My mom (and I) goes to a Protestant church just like that and it is really nice. You should have just let her pray for you. It was a nice offer.

P.S. Catholics ARE Christians.

 

[mini_me640]

Good catch. All three posters do seem to really enjoy exclamation points!!!(and ellipses as well).

They all also tend to post only after 7 Pm eastern, have a very pompous, holier than thou attitude, and are very wordy in their posts…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You and I are thinking along the same lines. First time poster with a situation that’s a little “out there” and subsequent posts that not only chide people who respond but also push the issue more to the extreme.

Makes one go

Luna

Indeed. The continued angry and spiteful tone is very typical of the type of forum poster who is trying to stir up trouble. Who comes to a Catholic forum to post an angry, condemning diatribe, complete with calling other Christians, “Christians,” except someone wanting to stir up a controversy?

And BEL, there have been VERY FEW people who said anything that the OP did was right in any way. The 2nd post from the OP just ramps up the anger and insults to the non-denominational churches and pastors, in hopes that someone, ANYONE will come onto the thread and agree.

I count 5 positive responses - unfortunately, they were some of the first few responses so it looks like things are going to go in that direction, but then the responses were countered by more :tsktsk: responses, and even one of the first 5 positives modified his/her position, so out of over 45 posts, only 4 were positive.

 

[FatherOfTwelve]

Indeed. The continued angry and spiteful tone is very typical of the type of forum poster who is trying to stir up trouble. Who comes to a Catholic forum to post an angry, condemning diatribe, complete with calling other Christians, “Christians,” except someone wanting to stir up a controversy?

And BEL, there have been VERY FEW people who said anything that the OP did was right in any way. The 2nd post from the OP just ramps up the anger and insults to the non-denominational churches and pastors, in hopes that someone, ANYONE will come onto the thread and agree.

I count 5 positive responses - unfortunately, they were some of the first few responses so it looks like things are going to go in that direction, but then the responses were countered by more :tsktsk: responses, and even one of the first 5 positives modified his/her position, so out of over 45 posts, only 4 were positive.

What do you consider my response, post 34 I think, Positive or Negative?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What do you consider my response, post 34 I think, Positive or Negative?

What I meant was, and didn’t state plainly, BlueEyedLady stated she was shocked at how many posters were positive TOWARD the OP. I didn’t mean positive responses as in the PROPER way of response to the Christian lady in the parking lot, which your post definitely was.

You were charitable toward the OP but still pointing out that we have a model for situations such as the one the OP encountered (if it was real).

So, your post was balanced. You didn’t pat her on the back for verbally attacking the woman in the parking lot.

 

[montanaman]

I hope this is the right place to post this… First time here! So glad to find a Catholic board!

So yesterday I was in the parking lot at Target, and a woman approached me while I was loading my car. She said she liked my bumper stickers (they are pro life) and said she was glad to see someone making a statement for unborn children. I thanked her. She then asked if she could pray “over” me for protection, because her own car was vandalized when she had pro-life stickers on it. I was a little taken aback, and asked her what parish she belonged to. She said she went to a “church” in town called REALITY. Now, I know what this is. It is a big “come as you are, anything goes” church that some “pastor” invented on his own. They pride themselves on being open to anyone and as far as I know, there is no oversight or hierarchy in the “religion” - some guy just reads the Bible and says whatever he wants on Sunday morning while wearing Birkenstocks.

I told the woman that I’d rather she not pray over me, because she did not attend a valid church. She said she was Christian and didn’t I worship Jesus. I said that of course I did, but that I consider “REALITY” to be heretical, the pastor to be invalid, and the attendees to be in grave error. She said the “church” had many former Catholics. I said they were in a state of mortal sin for their attendance at “REALITY.” She said the Catholic Church was who was in error because we do not adhere to the Scriptures. I said that The Catholic Church is the one true church that Christ founded, and that there is zero salvation outside of Catholicism. She said I was “So wrong” and that she would pray for me that I would see the truth. I said I already knew the truth, and that I hoped she would stop attending a false church so that she could attain salvation. She stomped away.

I am still really flustered here. I know that Catholics do not “witness” to others like some of the more obnoxious “faiths” out there. We do not approach people in parking lots and ask to “pray over them.” I am just not sure if I handled this well. I got pretty upset and I might have offended this person.

Any ideas on how we should deal with these so-called Christians when we are faced with the falsehood of their religion. Clearly I could have done it better! The thing is, their churches do a good job of making them “feel good” and it’s hard to explain that going to church is not about getting pumped and feeling energized as though it were a concert!

If that’s how it went down, I think you handled it better than can be expected. Maybe you could have taken the edge off initially, but it doesn’t sound too bad.

 

[Luvtosew]

Man, I would of prayed with her, anytime another Chrisitan would come up to me and offer to pray with me or for me (which I might add is never unless family or friends) how would I refuse.

 

[anp1215]

hmmmmm, if this is even a real post…

I would be so unspeakably excited if another pro-lifer randomly approached me and offered to pray over me, I wouldn’t even know what to do. I think I would respond “Heck yeah, I need all the prayers I can get!”

I guess the OP doesn’t think she needs any prayers.

 

[lynnehelen]

Treat “Christians” with compassion. My recent experience led me to understand that people who have grown up in the Catholic faith tend to be sheltered and not so competent at dealing with those outside the faith, to whom I believe you are indeed supposed to witness. “Make disciples of all nations.” “Use words if necessary.” I have heard it said that the most interesting Catholics are those who come to the Church from a checkered background.