Dealing with "Christians"

[rhiannonh]

Believe you me, there are many christians who firmly believe that Roman Catholics are not Christian… though quite where they get their reasoning from I do not know:shrug:

But none of us have no right what so ever to judge another church by hearsay of common knowledge that is widely misspread. She will love God as much as the opening poster and God loves her as much as the opening poster and yes, quite frankly am sure the situation could have been handled much better and a certain smugness that you think you belong to the right church as opposed to the wrong church, ie that campaigner in this instance. Both were committing the sin of pride.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**and a certain smugness that you think you belong to the right church as opposed to the wrong church, ie that campaigner in this instance. Both were committing the sin of pride. **

WHOA there, friend. How do you know the MOTIVES of either woman???
“Pride” is a motive, an attitude of the heart.
Defending the true church, sometimes even vehemently, is NOT the sin of pride
((unless PRIDE is the motive for doing so)). It is never a sin, unless the motive is in fact smugness and pride, to defend the true church.
What is the true church is NOT a matter of opinion, folks.
To put it briefly (I hope, I know I ramble, and I’m sorry in advance!!!):
The apostles lived on for MANY DECADES after the ascension of Our Lord Jesus.
During those many decades, they travelled throughout the ENTIRE Roman Empire, east and west, ringing the Mediterranean, east into Babylonia (Iraq) and Persia and south in to Africa, as well as Israel (so-called Palestine) and Arabia. In all those countries, they, and those they taught, held Eucharist after Eucharist after Eucharist, day in and day out, and taught long sermon after long sermon after long sermon, day in and day out, every day, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, for MANY decades,
DURING WHICH THOUSANDS of detailed sermons, these men and their personally trained teachers and successors, EXPLAINED Christian dogma AND the things that they WROTE in the books of our (VERY THIN) New Testament which were written by that time.
The only books that would NOT have been very well explained were, really, the Apocalypse (Revelation) written rather late in the game, and not early too widely circulated beyond the 7 churches of Asia, which fact explains WHY there was debate in the early church over “Chiliasm” or whether Christ would literally reign on earth in Jerusalem for a literal period of 1,000 years. Papias, Justin, and Irenaeus were Chiliasts, literal Millenarians, but many many other apostolically trained early Christians, were NOT, and Justin acknowleged this fact in his writings. The non-Chiliast view eventually won out in the Councils of the church’s bishops.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

CONTINUED FROM MY PREVIOUS POST IMMEDIATELY ABOVE. THANKS SO MUCH.

Now, in these thousands of sermons, day after day, week after week, month after month, for decades and decades, the apostles left behind a body of doctrine that was the SAME basically ALL OVER THE EMPIRE, regardless of language, culture, what have you.
And all these apostolically taught people, all who wrote anything on these subjects,
believed the following, all over the empire:

1. JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE, Virgin-Born, CRUCIFIED, RISEN IN A GLORIFIED
   …BODY, ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN IN THAT BODY, and would REMAIN IN HEAVEN
   …UNTIL THE SECOND COMING.
2. JESUS’S MOTHER, MARY, IS THE NEW EVE, thus the PANAGHIA,
   …THE ALL HOLY ONE. MOST INCLUDING AUGUSTINE WOULD NEVER MENTION
   …MARY AND “SIN” IN THE SAME SENTENCE, DENYING THAT SHE WAS A SINNER.
   3)…REGENERATION NORMALLY TAKES PLACE THROUGH WATER BAPTISM
   …BY THE ACTION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, ALTHOUGH PRE-VENIENT GRACE LEADS
   …THE PERSON TO FULL CONVERSION (ADULT), AT WHICH TIME HE OR SHE
   …IS REGENERATED IN THE WATERS OF BAPTISM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
   4)…THE EUCHARIST, celebrated at LEAST each and EVERY SUNDAY,
   …IS IN REALITY THE REAL, TRUE, GENUINE RISEN, GLORIFIED
   …BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY OF JESUS BORN OF MARY, GIVEN TO US
   …AS MYSTICAL SALVIFIC FOOD. IT IS REALLY AND TRULY HIM, NOT A MENTAL
   …MEMORIAL OF HIS DEATH ONLY, BUT REALLY HIM, RISEN AND GLORIFIED,
   …OFFERED TO THE FATHER AS AN ANAMNESIS, A MEMORIAL-OFFERING,
   …THAT “EXTENDS” AS IT WERE THE OFFERING OF CALVARY, WHICH WAS A
   …LITERAL DEATH, WHILE THE EUCHARIST IS CHRIST’S SACRIFICE AS HE NOW
   …PRESENTS IT ETERNALLY TO THE FATHER IN THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY
   …IN HIS RISEN BODY WHICH STILL CARRIES THE SCARS OF HIS WOUNDS.
   …I.E., IT IS A SACRIFICE, A LIVING ETERNAL OFFERING BY WHICH HE PLEADS
   …FOR US SINNERS IN REMEMBRANCE OF HIS BRUTAL CRUCIFIXION.
   …I.e. IT IS NOT A MERE SYMBOLIC SUPPER AT ALL, and NOT MERELY
   …A SPIRITUAL RECEIVING OF JESUS, BUT A RECEIVING OF HIS ACTUAL RISEN
   …BODY IN COMMUNION. THIS IS THE REAL PRESENCE. THIS IS WHAT WAS
   …BELIEVED AND TAUGHT EVERYWHERE BY THOSE DIRECTLY TAUGHT BY
   …THE APOSTLES AND THOSE DIRECTLY TRAINED AND TAUGHT BY THEM.
   5)…THE CHURCH IS RIGHTLY RULED BY BISHOPS, PRESBYTERS, AND DEACONS,
   …WITH THE BISHOPS AND PRESBYTERS HAVING MINISTERIAL PRIESTLY
   …OFFICES AND DUTIES, received thru the laying on of hands BY THOSE who were
   …EITHER APOSTLES OR had had hands laid on them by those on whom the
   …APOSTLES had laid-on hands to confer these Offices, and continuing on thru
   …all generations until the return of Christ. To be a VALIDLY ordained Priest or Bishop,
   …you MUST have received the laying on of hands and conferring prayers FROM THOSE
   …who, THEMSELVES, had validly received the Laying On of Hands and prayers of
   …conferral of these priestly ministries. If you were “ordained” by those who did NOT
   …receive valid conferrals themselves, then YOU were not a validly ordained, REAL
   …Bishop or priest. This is apostolic succession, this is Holy Orders.
   6)…By unrepentant willful serious sins after baptism, you CAN lose your salvation.
   …(( in fact, this was taken so seriously that the penances back then for serious sins
   …after baptism were extremely LONG and usually VERY, VERY demanding.
   …and this PROVES that once saved, always saved, or “eternal security” is NOT
   …the Salvation teaching handed down by the apostles. NOBODY believed in that.
   …NOBODY, anywhere in the empire.
   7)…The Bishop of Rome held, in the early, pre-Constantinian church episcopate,
   …the very same role among the episcopate as Peter held among the apostles:
   …he was their leader and, at times, final authority. This is the office of the Pope,
   …the “successor” of Saint Peter as the “rock” upon which the Church is built in Christ.
   These things are proof positive that the church taught directly by the apostles was Catholic in doctrine and practice. It is not a matter for debate. It cannot be honestly debated. These (and other) Catholic beliefs were universal in the early Church taught directly by the apostles and by those directly trained and taught and sent out BY THEM.
   There can be no validly denying this. That is why sola-scriptura and verse-slinging
   are pointless exercises and wastes of time. It is okay and good to study the scriptures,
   but they cannot be rightly understood without good knowledge of the doctrinal framework of the early church throughout the whole Roman Empire in the first two centuries as taught, everywhere, by the apostles and their personally-trained evangelists, from one end of the empire to the other for SEVERAL decades.

It can never be sinful to point these things out and to insist upon them,because
they are all true and identify the TRUE version of Christianity quite clearly.
The ONLY thing that can be sinful is to do this from a motive of Pride (not pride in Christ, that is fine, to be proud of Christ and his works and his Church, but a personal pride of
“I’m better than you just because I belong to the Catholic Church.” Belonging to the true church should be a humbling experience, for which one is ever-increasingly grateful and desirous of sharing that with all people one meets, even if they get ticked off, contradict the truth, come up with specious arguments against it (and all arguments against it are specious, even if quoting from scripture). Some folks DO NOT WANT to hear the truth of the Catholic church (and our sister churches, the Eastern Orthodox). They WANT to believe simplistic,selfrighteous fundamentalism. That is their problem, not ours. We still have to reach out.

 

[lynnehelen]

I apologize for my uncurteous reply yesterday morning. I was hysterical and in a panic over dust mites in my apartment where I had been stranded without a car for three days and hadn’t had any sleep and just “flipped” when I heard the term “Christian” referred to in a derogatory fashion. I prize my Christian faith. I do not have the temerity to call myself Catholic, because although I am pretty sure I have baptism of desire I am not accepted as such locally, having made a pain in the butt of myself generally in my efforts to stay alive, keep my family alive, et cetera.

I would point out, though, that catholics are “Christians” are they not? I do not know the language to use, as I have note had the benefit of a Catholic upbringing and formal Catholic instruction, but I strive in every way to keep my faith alive and do believe, although I have doubts about some “Catholics” just as they have doubts about me, that the catholic, which, as I am sure you know means universal, church, is the one true church and to me it is like a Holy Grail which I cannot receive for social, family, and societal reasons.

As far as the dilemma of dealing with a person who causes offense for any reason, I wanted to come back here to repeat the whole quote from St. Francis, “Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.”

I hope that helps. I did want you to know that I was offended by your remarks.

:sad_yes: :tsktsk:

 

[Zundrah]

I apologize for my uncurteous reply yesterday morning. I was hysterical and in a panic over dust mites in my apartment where I had been stranded without a car for three days and hadn’t had any sleep and just “flipped” when I heard the term “Christian” referred to in a derogatory fashion. I prize my Christian faith. I do not have the temerity to call myself Catholic, because although I am pretty sure I have baptism of desire I am not accepted as such locally, having made a pain in the butt of myself generally in my efforts to stay alive, keep my family alive, et cetera.

I would point out, though, that catholics are “Christians” are they not? I do not know the language to use, as I have note had the benefit of a Catholic upbringing and formal Catholic instruction, but I strive in every way to keep my faith alive and do believe, although I have doubts about some “Catholics” just as they have doubts about me, that the catholic, which, as I am sure you know means universal, church, is the one true church and to me it is like a Holy Grail which I cannot receive for social, family, and societal reasons.

As far as the dilemma of dealing with a person who causes offense for any reason, I wanted to come back here to repeat the whole quote from St. Francis, “Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.”

I hope that helps. I did want you to know that I was offended by your remarks.

:sad_yes: :tsktsk:

Wonderfully put.

which, as I am sure you know means universal, church, is the one true church and to me it is like a Holy Grail

You’re not alone there.

 

[odile53]

I haven’t had a chance to reply to this thread, but for GraceDK, I see that you live in Europe. In the United States, a lot of crime happens in parking lots, even in well-populated ones like outside of stores such as Target and WalMart, even in broad daylight. I have no way of knowing if the lady in question is part of a crime team, someone who is going to try to distract me while another one attempts to do me harm.

Recently, in my neck of the woods, two women were arrested for stealing purses in parking lots. One woman would approach a shopper who had a cart and her purse in the cart and make up a story about car trouble, or a sick person in their car. The other woman would grab the purse of the distracted shopper. This pair was allegedly responsible for a small crime wave of about twenty such incidents.

It’s a sad reality of life in these United States, and frequently people do get hurt when they gullibly engage with a stranger. Elsewhere, there have been parking lot abductions and murders of people. Therefore, a healthy dose of suspicion can literally save your life. Our mothers’ childhood admonitions to avoid talking to strangers is a safe practice, even though it could be regarded as sadly insular.

I do hope that conditions are safer for you in Europe.

 

[GraceDK]

I haven’t had a chance to reply to this thread, but for GraceDK, I see that you live in Europe. In the United States, a lot of crime happens in parking lots, even in well-populated ones like outside of stores such as Target and WalMart, even in broad daylight. I have no way of knowing if the lady in question is part of a crime team, someone who is going to try to distract me while another one attempts to do me harm.

Recently, in my neck of the woods, two women were arrested for stealing purses in parking lots. One woman would approach a shopper who had a cart and her purse in the cart and make up a story about car trouble, or a sick person in their car. The other woman would grab the purse of the distracted shopper. This pair was allegedly responsible for a small crime wave of about twenty such incidents.

It’s a sad reality of life in these United States, and frequently people do get hurt when they gullibly engage with a stranger. Elsewhere, there have been parking lot abductions and murders of people. Therefore, a healthy dose of suspicion can literally save your life. Our mothers’ childhood admonitions to avoid talking to strangers is a safe practice, even though it could be regarded as sadly insular.

I do hope that conditions are safer for you in Europe.

Yes indeed, a lot safer… unless you enter certain areas where immigrants beat and threaten everyone who isn’t … Anyway, why do you think America is such a dangerous place? Ive grown up and lived in many countries and I never feelt so unsafe as I did when I visited the States…

 

[Shannon46]

I hope this is the right place to post this… First time here! So glad to find a Catholic board!

So yesterday I was in the parking lot at Target, and a woman approached me while I was loading my car. She said she liked my bumper stickers (they are pro life) and said she was glad to see someone making a statement for unborn children. I thanked her. She then asked if she could pray “over” me for protection, because her own car was vandalized when she had pro-life stickers on it. I was a little taken aback, and asked her what parish she belonged to. She said she went to a “church” in town called REALITY. Now, I know what this is. It is a big “come as you are, anything goes” church that some “pastor” invented on his own. They pride themselves on being open to anyone and as far as I know, there is no oversight or hierarchy in the “religion” - some guy just reads the Bible and says whatever he wants on Sunday morning while wearing Birkenstocks.

I told the woman that I’d rather she not pray over me, because she did not attend a valid church. She said she was Christian and didn’t I worship Jesus. I said that of course I did, but that I consider “REALITY” to be heretical, the pastor to be invalid, and the attendees to be in grave error. She said the “church” had many former Catholics. I said they were in a state of mortal sin for their attendance at “REALITY.” She said the Catholic Church was who was in error because we do not adhere to the Scriptures. I said that The Catholic Church is the one true church that Christ founded, and that there is zero salvation outside of Catholicism. She said I was “So wrong” and that she would pray for me that I would see the truth. I said I already knew the truth, and that I hoped she would stop attending a false church so that she could attain salvation. She stomped away.

I am still really flustered here. I know that Catholics do not “witness” to others like some of the more obnoxious “faiths” out there. We do not approach people in parking lots and ask to “pray over them.” I am just not sure if I handled this well. I got pretty upset and I might have offended this person.

Any ideas on how we should deal with these so-called Christians when we are faced with the falsehood of their religion. Clearly I could have done it better! The thing is, their churches do a good job of making them “feel good” and it’s hard to explain that going to church is not about getting pumped and feeling energized as though it were a concert!

There are different religions and Churches from Baptist, and Protestant, to Catholic but I think you were well within your right to speak your opinion. Although I think I’d be upset too being told that a Catholic church is wrong or in error from someone who isnt even a true Christain. And my questain is: why would any Catholics visit a Church such as “REALITY” if it’s not even a valid church to begin with.

 

[bcprincess]

“types of ‘Christians’”?
And that there is no official ruling that one cannot wear denim to a church service.

Good job too, I have no call to have much else in my wardrobe and I am sure the priest, as lovely as he is might object if I showed up “as naked as a jay bird”

 

[englishredrose]

Forgive me one second,

You are all hotly arguing over something. Has the opening poster been back to reply to anything? Let the opening poster reply and if they don’t then just drop it because the question is no longer in hand in reality. Its gone. Its the past.

the problem with forums is that we get sooo carried away and forget what we are about.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I don’t see that anyone has yet mentioned that “praying over” someone can be very, very different from praying with someone. My experience is that if a person prays over me, she’s going to put her hands on me and pray for quite a long time, with lots of personal opinion thinly disguised as prayer, and a message “from the Holy Spirit” on top of it.

I don’t know if the OP is a troll or not, and perhaps she was rude, but personally i would be very much on the defensive if a stranger wanted to pray over me, and I might not respond as my best self, either!