Dealing with Covid Response/ Restrictions - Christmas Mass

[pnewton]

Unjustly? Begging the question there. The Church is also committed to pro-life principles involving the value of human life.

That is not faith. That is presumption, the same rationale used by Christians who handle venomous snakes.

Priests have to minister to everyone, including those that attend Mass because they know the Church has proper safety protocols. This last weekend was the first where the priest actually told people not to enter. Those that want to come sliding in after Mass starts have no right to place in danger those who show up and are properly seated safely in designated areas.

Likewise, Christmas/Easter Catholics may not be able to flood the Church as they have every other year. The idea that this is THE Christmas one is going to convert misses the obvious issue that attending Mass on Christmas Eve is no better than any other Mass, and that a return to the Eucharist must begin with confession. So, if one really was going to convert, the proper first step would be to call and ask for a conference with a local priest.

 

[pnewton]

You keep presenting this false dichotomy. It is like saying we should not speak against abortion because the primary mission of the Church is salvation of souls. We can respect life without forgoing the worship of God.

 

[pnewton]

It can be. It has been.

Yes, some restrictions have been excessive and discriminatory, but the worship of God has resulted in deaths in places where some preachers have ignored everything trusting God to heal.

All I am saying is that reasonable guidelines and limitation on attendance allows worship, allows Mass, and allows a large margin of safety. This topic is about one person who is not attending Mass, but wants to go on Christmas. If that person cannot go because of space, it is not like that is the last Mass. There is the next Sunday Mass, then the following week day Masses.

 

[Canvas]

AKA the flu…happens every single year.

There hasn’t been a pandemic flu that killed over 300,000 people in the US in 100 years. That was the H1N1 Spanish Flu in 1918-1919. Even the dreadful 1957 H2N2 and 1968 H3N2 flu pandemics didn’t do as much damage as COVID, and there was nowhere near the kind of extraordinary mitigation /containment measures that are being used with COVID.

COVID is extremely contagious. It is so very dangerous because of this — there are many viruses more deadly, but most don’t spread so easily. So even with a small overall death rate, the body count is enormous because COVID spreads so incredibly easily.

 

[humilityseeker]

There is a responsibility to preserve and protect life in a pandemic.

 

[jeannetherese]

Hi Throwaway account,
Of course you may assist at Mass. Just get registered at your local parish; it will only take a moment or two.
You may also stream Mass from any number of Catholic churches and make a spiritual act of communion, if you prefer.
Or, if either of these feels onerous, you may make us of the dispensation of your Mass obligation by the bishops.
May God bless you.
jt

 

[jeannetherese]

And I shouldn’t have to call around to fifteen or twenty parishes to find openings. That is the job of the Catholic diocese IMO when they want to have restrictions that go above what the state is requiring.

Parishes are going to have a tough time getting the word out to you regarding Mass times and availability if you choose not to register-they do need contact information in order to communicate.
How did your application go for the Masses tis-bearself found for you?

 

[pnewton]

We know that what is killing people is not an imbalance of humors. Using the past must also include the total dearth of medical knowledge concerning cells, bacteria, viruses, and pretty much all of modern medicine.

 

[Rau]

I don’t like the idea that the rich and connected are allowed to attend Mass while the plebs are told to wait in their cars or dismissively told to “watch it online.”

You make assertions not in evidence. When the restrictions were limited in my parish, the priest made phone calls to invite people to mass. He could only call those registered with the parish.

 

[Rau]

As for myself, I have the sad report that the only covid- victim I know, is actually a victim of the
restrictions, not the virus itself. It is my late nephew Marcus from Vienna, who, with a background
of emotional instability and tendencies to depression, now completely cut off from
all remaining splinter groups of the family - living by himself, could not cope with this
situation of loss of freedom and ‘fell out a window’ earlier this month.

I suspect he is not counted among the COVID dead. Of which in the USA there are about 320,000. The number is so large because the US has not been successful in controlling the spread of the virus.

 

[Rau]

How do you feel about dying or spreading the virus so it can kill others?

Right. Please note the correlation from public gatherings, to infection spread, to death toll and reassess what is actually “responsible”.

 

[Rau]

Utter nonsense. COVID is not inherently within - it spreads from person to person.

 

[Rau]

Rubbish. The infection rates vary greatly from country to country and reflect the effectiveness of measures to prevent spread. Air-born spread is mitigated by masks and social distancing, quarantines, etc. Look at the situation in the US - massive infection rates and resulting death tolls. Compare with, say, Australia - tiny infection rates. One country applied preventive measures better than the other.

 

[Rau]

No that’s not occurred to me because it’s wrong. LOL! US and Australia cure about the same % of the infected - but in the US the % of the population infected, and thus dying, is way larger.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But Irrelevant.

Australian churches were closed for a short period and now open with social distancing restrictions. Hope was not lost.

How many suicides in US attributed to the closure of churches? 320,000 dead from COVID and climbing.

It means “it’s unwise to gather in a crowd”. Same thing it means when the cinemas closed.

Perhaps it is you who has been duped…

 

[pnewton]

Keeping distance and limiting contacts is not hiding. I have not been duped because I prefer to trust doctors to advise about medical science as opposed politicians, much less others like myself not trained in virology.

 

[Rau]

Perhaps,
[/quote]

That’s about as far as this conversation could usefully progress…

 

[Phemie]

OP, do you actually want to attend Christmas Mass somewhere, or was the point of this thread to express your frustration that you don’t want to register for a parish or apparently be asked to contribute, but still expect the parish to make arrangements that you find suitable to “include” you when you want to be included?

Presumably your parish has weekday Masses that don’t require registration or reservation. If you just want to attend Mass, you can go to those. It’s reasonable that churches might require reservations for Christmas Mass that typically draws a huge crowd.

Some parishes have required reservations for specific Christmas Masses for decades.

 

[humilityseeker]

This type of justification is no justification.

Those who dont believe the seriousness of the situation should really stop drinking the rose coloured glass kool aide.

The death rate in the USA alone this year is up and predicted to end at at least half a million higher.
There is a reason for that, its called a pandemic.

Half a million higher.

 

[whatistrue]

Guess you missed the part about “appropriate times”, eh?

I deny this gratuitous assertion. It is up to you to prove it. Those accusations have been made many times and turned out to be, well, hogwash.

Occurred to and dismissed as false. we were late to the testing party and other places have been testing at a higher rate since the beginning. The basic assertion sounds almost Trumpian in its falsity.

Etc. Wake up and listen to those who know, not those who yell and whine the loudest.

 

[jlc2k2]

Here’s the thing. The churches around the OP are open so this really doesn’t have anything to do with the OP’s complaint. They are open. They are saying Mass. They are distributing the sacrament. No one is saying the OP can’t go receive the Eucharist. As a matter of fact, several people have suggested multiple ways that the OP could receive. All of those ideas have been rejected as too hard or annoying by the OP.

Churches did close with the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Closures, social distancing, limiting gathering sizes, etc are not some unprecedented response.