Dealing with criticism in my parish community when discussing infertility treatment

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Viewer said:
Uh huh…Yes, lets all be irresponsible and keep dropping kids left and right until we lose our homes and go bankrupt

That’s exactly what has happened to three families now in my parish who kept pumping out child after child, expecting the state to fund their lifestyle. They’re now homeless despite having full time jobs, because they had too many damn kids!

No, contraception is required. We do not want to reach the point of selling our excessive children off into brothels, there has to be a cut of point on children.
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Why would we do that? If the parents are not ready or able for more children, I would think they would seek to limit the causes or children - a little less sex!

The “cut-off” point on children is defined by their parents, each month, when they ask “Are we up for more children”?
 
Mayita30 said:
She said bye to another poster who was a troll
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Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun, besides this entire thread is essentially chewing out a women who was seeking some advice and comfort about a hard decision she had to make, very catholic indeed.
 
Judas_The_Rock said:
Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun, besides this entire thread is essentially chewing out a women who was seeking some advice and comfort about a hard decision she had to make, very catholic indeed.
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I was actually giving her comfort in citing examples of my situation and a friend’s situation who after 10 years of marriage was able to conceive a child naturally at the age of 43 yrs old.

OP, are you still here??? can you please answer me. how old are you? Have long have you been trying to have a baby naturally? have you considered adopting a baby??
 
Judas_The_Rock said:
Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun, besides this entire thread is essentially chewing out a women who was seeking some advice and comfort about a hard decision she had to make, very catholic indeed.
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As the thread has developed, it’s character has changed quite a bit, but the OP has remained true to the Cafeteria Catholic tag she gave to herself. Perhaps you’ve not read the OP’s posts, beyond the first, carefully?
 
Rau said:
As the thread has developed, it’s character has changed quite a bit, but the OP has remained true to the Cafeteria Catholic tag she gave to herself. Perhaps you’ve not read the OP’s posts, beyond the first, carefully?
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I have, and I haven’t seen anything bad. But please feel free to quote things you feel are wrong.
 
Viewer said:
Ja Mein Führer!

We were on topic actually, by presenting examples where Church teaching had developed and evolved over time to a form almost unrecognizable from the original stance.

Why don’t you leave moderation tasks to the moderator?
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Apparently they have LOL
 
EasterJoy said:
I thought your question was how to keep people from reminding you that the teaching of the Church concerning your personal problems is different from what you want to think and do about them. Your goal seems to be to be able to tell a bunch of Catholics in a Catholic setting that you have abandoned your intention to follow Church teaching, and what you really seem to want to know is how to get them to give you validation for what you plan to do. That is not going to happen, or let us hope it doesn’t.

The answer to your original question is to refrain from going into a group gathered for the purpose of mutual teaching, admonishment, and advancement in the Catholic faith and dropping the bombshell that you don’t intend to follow the teachings of the Church because you think you know better. That’s going to net you arguments, corrections, and encouragement to change your mind. That is what we are supposed to do for each other in that context! If this thread does not prove my point, I do not know what will.

If you don’t want corrections, then don’t tell people with any duty to offer correction that you hold what you know very well that they hold to be incorrect beliefs. Otherwise, there is no help for you. You’re going to be corrected and they are going to defend the truth until you amend your thinking or learn to keep it to yourself. That’s reality, and all this “I have nothing to be ashamed of” rationalization is not going to change that. If you won’t accept that for some reason, then for mercy’s sake be willing take the consequences without complaint! You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
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Yes this has been repeatedly suggested in this thread and apparently ignored, hence all the further posts justifying herself and her actions as just “being the voice of infertility”.
 
UnCatholicBride said:
Just an interesting thought that I had.
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How about you read about it, before you go off on it? 👍
2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which is “on the side of life,” teaches that “it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life.” “This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.”
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“ordered to the procreation of human life,”
 
maryjk said:
How about you read about it, before you go off on it? 👍

“ordered to the procreation of human life,”
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I would suggest there are several aspects that should always be kept in mind and never compromised when we ponder what an “awe” some gift that creating another human life truly is.
  1. We bear ultimate responsibility for any new life that we create.
  2. A desire to “have a baby” should never mask the fact that no human life is ever disposable or dispensable.
  3. That the sexual act itself, as THE means by which new human lives are created, ought always be viewed as the most significant creative power that could possibly be placed into human hands by the Creator - it is the power to bring into existence another human being. As such, sex should be accorded great dignity and respect; and NEVER should be acted on irresponsibly.
  4. No other human life, not even those lives we bring into existence “belong” to us. We have no right to consider these lives (nor our own) as dispensable or disposable merely because we have been given responsibility for creating them. Our responsibility for their well-being does NOT entail a right to decide that we can end that responsibility unilaterally.
It is when human beings compromise or overlook these guiding principles that we run into trouble.
 
Peter_Plato said:
I would suggest there are several aspects that should always be kept in mind and never compromised when we ponder what an “awe” some gift that creating another human life truly is.
  1. We bear ultimate responsibility for any new life that we create.
  2. A desire to “have a baby” should never mask the fact that no human life is ever disposable or dispensable.
  3. That the sexual act itself, as THE means by which new human lives are created, ought always be viewed as the most significant creative power that could possibly be placed into human hands by the Creator - it is the power to bring into existence another human being. As such, sex should be accorded great dignity and respect; and NEVER should be acted on irresponsibly.
  4. No other human life, not even those lives we bring into existence “belong” to us. We have no right to consider these lives (nor our own) as dispensable or disposable merely because we have been given responsibility for creating them. Our responsibility for their well-being does NOT entail a right to decide that we can end that responsibility unilaterally.
It is when human beings compromise or overlook these guiding principles that we run into trouble.
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I like these priciples, thank you for formulating them. I believe that they speak to both problems mentioned here - ARTs on one side and contraception on the other. ARTs and contraception are both different sides of the same coin. Children are gifts from the Creator, not commodities, and there is no such thing as the right to have a child. Just because the current technology allows us to do something, it does not mean it should be done.
 
Viewer said:
Uh huh…Yes, lets all be irresponsible and keep dropping kids left and right until we lose our homes and go bankrupt

That’s exactly what has happened to three families now in my parish who kept pumping out child after child, expecting the state to fund their lifestyle. They’re now homeless despite having full time jobs, because they had too many damn kids!

No, contraception is required. We do not want to reach the point of selling our excessive children off into brothels, there has to be a cut of point on children.
Click to expand...
Irresponsible…dropping kids left and right…pumping out child after child…too many damn kids…

Your words are crass, insulting, and offensive.

And to be honest, I don’t believe that couples with full time jobs are homeless as a direct result of the number of children they have. As someone else pointed out, financial problems are very often the result of spending choices. My ex-husband and I were raising 9 children on his full time income (a blue collar job, very middle class income) and my part time income. We never had any trouble paying our mortgage.

I’m now a single mother, with 7 at home when the divorce was final. I have two part time jobs, and I’m in absolutely no danger of being homeless. I’ve known plenty of large families, including one with 11 children whose father was a teacher at a Catholic school (ie, one income, and not a huge one) and they were never in any danger of homelessness, either.

I know people with far fewer children than I have, and they do have lots of financial problems. They also have lots of alcohol, frequent brand new cars, cigarettes, lots of ordering out for pizza, lots of running to the gas station for a bottle of pop and candy…the list goes on.
 
UnCatholicBride said:
Just an interesting thought that I had.

How is it that a couple who is having intercourse and avoiding their fertile window (therefore having NO chance of conceiving) any more “open to life” than a couple using a condom.

Scientifically speaking, you have a 48-72 hour window in which to have intercourse that would result in conception. If you’re using “natural family planning” to avoid that window, you’re no more open to life than someone using birth control or a condom…

Actually I’d say that someone having sex during their fertile window while using a condom is actually MORE open to life as the failure of a condom in the fertile window would result in a 20% chance of pregnancy, where abstinence in the fertile window would result in a 0% chance of pregnancy even if they had unprotected sex the rest of the month.
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I was thinking exactly the same thing. Folks have a tendency to encourage NFP because it is supposedly proven to reduce unintended pregnancies more effectively than condoms.

Ironic, in my mind.
 
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