Dealing with fiances friends

[1ke]

Would you advice to seek more contact, in any way, what is not easy for me as I don´t feel respect there, or should we move on, what would cause maybe solitiude for him?

I don’t recommend trying to cultivate friendships with man-children who don’t want to move into mature adulthood. No. I recommend letting those friendships fade into the past. You can acknowledge and honor the friendships for what they meant to you at a specific time in your life without thinking that means you have to hang on to them forever, or that you can’t change, grow, and find new friends.

Your fiancé is going to have to be OK with the fact that friendships come and go. Interests change. Priorities change. After you are married, it changes even more. After kids-- then too.

 

[alice24]

Personally, I think so, too. I am so shy in telling him this when he asks because I don´t want him to be alone (we are living away from the next town then and I fear he will have problems to get to know new people…). I understand they were (and are in a way still) important for him as they grew up together and I am not a fan of letting people go if there isn´t a personal benefit anymore, but for me, the situation is clear, your term “man-children” says it exactly. Thank you for your clear words.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Thank you, your words are very open, clear and helpful.
You are probably right with the idea that they fear all this, I know many came from material well families, but with divorce and instability. I have to say I fear some things regarding marriage and family, too - birth, stress, hard times. My parents are divorced, too, but I never thought “no risk and skip” would be an option. I only hope we will grow with our struggles in the future…

If I were only responsible for me, I would simply stay away from them. As my fiancé grew up in this group, I am always so insecure when he asks me “what should I do with those bad comments?” or when he is sad or in anger because of them. I don´t want to isolate him and feel it would be good if he “grows out” of this circle on his own. He was raised in a very liberal and “let it be” environment with premarital relations, atheism etc. Sometimes I fear I could be “too much” for him if I spoke out against them and give them more fire for their opinion…

You’re in Germany, so you may not have done it–but have you ever heard of the FOCCUS test?

The reason that none of these thoughts shock me is that they—and much more–were all brought up with this test.

If he means to keep these friends, it might be helpful that you’ve discussed all the hot-button and red flag things. Rather than be blindsided by this sort of talk you have an answer.

So lets say that they dial him up and say, “Dude, she’s going to pop out a couple of kids and totally mooch off of your hard work!!!”

Rather than crying or being offended and shutting down, or cutting them off (which would be fine) you can say “oh yeah, you know, we talked about that. Even if he’s the only one earning money we know that my support in the household cooking, cleaning and caring for children is an important part of the way we want to live. In fact, we’re looking forward to it.”

 

[alice24]

No, never heard - I googled it a minute ago. You mean you work with couples with this test and have seen many results? Or you see the test as good preparation?( the idea of the test, after a short glance, seems good to me)…

We talked very openly about many themes, this “birth and being attractive” thing, too (as far as we can without the experience, for sure). I said I don´t feel comfortable with him being in the room when I would give birt, for example, I brought this up after this scared me when my friend told me her husband was on place. He told me, for example, with a biiig shame and excuse on his face that he fears he wouldn´t find me sexually attractive during pregnancy, and was very happy with me understanding this feel. Everything ok. But this friend theme was always a bit tricky for me.

I tried this, out of pride, I have to say, as I didn´t want to show them I was hurt. He said something similar in the same moment. He is sometimes so shy in his wishes and I am more direct that I don´t want to be overly anoying. For example, he told me if it was ok when I wouldn´t work full time after pregnancy (if we can afford it in any whay with one income) and care for the children instead of giving them to daycare, and he feared I could be angry - because in his friend circle, the idea “staying at home means being oppressed” is circulating. The fact that I am of middle eastern descent nakes it even worse, as they see me as a “conservative foreign girl of one of this countries where they lock in te´heir veiled women”

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

ago. You mean you work with couples with this test and have seen many results? Or you see the test as good preparation?( the idea of the test, after a short glance, seems good to me)…

We talked very openly about many themes, this “birth and being attractive” thing, too (as far as we can without the experience, for sure). I said I don´t feel comfortable with him being in the room when I would give birt, for example, I brought this up after this scared me when my friend told me her husband was on place. He told me, for example, with a biiig shame and excuse on his face that he fears he wouldn´t find me sexually attractive during pregnancy, and was very happy with me understanding this feel. Everything ok. But this friend theme was always a bit tricky for me.

I tried this, out of pride, I have to say, as I didn´t want to show them I was hurt. He said something similar in the same moment. He is sometimes so shy in his wishes and I am more direct that I don´t want to be overly anoying. For example, he told me if it was ok when I wouldn´t work full time after pregnancy (if we can afford it in any whay with one income) and care for the children instead of giving them to daycare, and he feared I could be angry - because in his friend circle, the idea “staying at home means being oppressed” is circulating. The fact that I am of middle eastern descent nakes it even worse, as they see me as a “conservative foreign girl of one of this countries where they lock in te´heir veiled wome

The test ranges from 100 to 180 questions depending on the situation. If you’re both practicing Catholics, it’s 100 questions. Non-practicing you get a dozen more, second marriage, non-Catholic, etc .

It gives you insight to the questions that are important to discuss before marriage. There are free “marriage inventory” questionnaires that you can get for free. They are not as good, but are REALLY needed.

I think one of the reasons you are finding it hard to deal with his friends is because these topics are being brought up by his friends and not in circumstances where you both are comfortable. Really, seeking out good pre-marital counseling from a priest should be a priority.

The more you bring up and discuss future subjects the more normative they become. You use the example of pregnancy and his shame. The more you talk about it the more you can come to terms with how you both feel.

It is a shame that his friends are behaving in this way. But in some respects, I think it has shown you many subjects that you may not have thought of.

And yeah, I get that in Germany, especially once the year is up, it is really considered lazy or oppressed not to go back in the workforce–more so than in other parts of Europe or the US. I think that you simply need to keep having these conversations and plan on ways YOU will get support. Beit a Mom’s Club or a professional or whatever. You are planning to do something conter-cultural. That’s going to come with difficulties and isolation.

 

[alice24]

This sounds very useful. I only see the “sign up and find a facilitator” options made for areas in the US. Sorry, maybe I have tomatoes on my eyes, but I can´t find the free question area

I think we discussed alot in the last months…it is just so new for us, discussing some themes I feel ashamed of. It is not that I am a shy person. It is not that I had no experience on some thing (I shouldn´t have, I know. There was a sinful relationship in the past) but I never thougt it would feel that…new and different for me. We discussed practical things alot, but maybe we were sometimes a bit shy when it comes to emotional discussion. Maybe that was so heavy in the confrontation with his friends - they brought it up rude and emotional, we rarely talk to each other in that way.

It makes sense that it is at the end good for us to be confrontated with that. Thank you for bringing this up. Maybe this is a way for me to not be in anger or sad about that, seeing it as useful.

Yeah…it´s all about “childcare is not a job, homestaying is odd and blablablah…” I can´t hear it anymore. I wish to hear the same tolerance they except for their lifestyle. I feel it is a cultural conflict. Sadly, It makes it even worse, as I feel it won´t be the last challenge in that way for us. But, as one poster said to me in the job-thread, I do have to think outside the box, seems to be true in those family-regarding issues, too…

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

This sounds very useful. I only see the “sign up and find a facilitator” options made for areas in the US. Sorry, maybe I have tomatoes on my eyes, but I can´t find the free question area

I think we discussed alot in the last months…it is just so new for us, discussing some themes I feel ashamed of. It is not that I am a shy person. It is not that I had no experience on some thing (I shouldn´t have, I know. There was a sinful relationship in the past) but I never thougt it would feel that…new and different for me. We discussed practical things alot, but maybe we were sometimes a bit shy when it comes to emotional discussion. Maybe that was so heavy in the confrontation with his friends - they brought it up rude and emotional, we rarely talk to each other in that way.

It makes sense that it is at the end good for us to be confrontated with that. Thank you for bringing this up. Maybe this is a way for me to not be in anger or sad about that, seeing it as useful.

Yeah…it´s all about “childcare is not a job, homestaying is odd and blablablah…” I can´t hear it anymore. I wish to hear the same tolerance they except for their lifestyle. I feel it is a cultural conflict. Sadly, It makes it even worse, as I feel it won´t be the last challenge in that way for us. But, as one poster said to me in the job-thread, I do have to think outside the box, seems to be true in those family-regarding issues, too…

No, you’ll have to use another pre-marital questionnaire. The longer the better. You can google that and should get some good options. Hubby and I found a few good ones…none as comprehensive but most were very good.

SAHM is a conflict even in the US where it was once normative. You really have to go out of your way to find a community. 22% of women with children are SAHM’s in the US, but it’s STILL pretty hard to find them in some places. I live in the northeast where it’s under 10%. It makes it tough, especially since being a SAHM doesn’t necessarily mean you share the same values with others.

Being a part-time WFHM can add additional challenges, but in my opinion is a REALLY good balance. I don’t have that much grown-up conversation as a freelance writer but I am using my brain in a way that I don’t when doing diapers or teaching times tables. I would highly recommend a SAHP “work” at least 5 hours a week on non-kid stuff.

Plus, because I can say I’m a WFHM, even part-time, I get a lot of “street cred” when I’m trying to relate to WOTHM’s

 

[alice24]

Ah ok, I got you wrong. I will search a free test online, I´m sure I´ll find anything.

It seems to me that the american SAHM speak out more loudly than the european. I don´t know if the rate is really lower here, but saying it loud is the social death in most cases. They call you lazy and fundamentalistic, at least - it´s funny. I won´t see this a necessary religios discussion. I want to teach my future children my values, I want to spend time with them, make them strong and give them support - these could be reasons for non-catholics, too. I do plan to work part time, I hope to find something matching…I guess it´s good to “change worlds” some hours per week and get and give some (name removed by moderator)ut I won´t get at home. And I wouldn´t find work after being cmpletely out of workplace for years. BUT I hate it to explain it every time again when some random woman tells me “it is soooo good for a child to be in the kindergarden at the age of one”. Did you managed part time more easy after the experience with your first child? I wonder how I will get this all coordinated with more children, if god wants to give me this gift.
Sometimes I wonder if living on the plain land is good or worse in this situation. We won´t be able to move for financial reason in the next years and have space for children and wonderful nature, but meeting people with similar opinions is near zero.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I never really got a “first child” experience because I began caring for my mildly autistic 10yo niece when my first was about 4 months old.

It wasn’t like she could be of much help, either, because her disability meant that she was more like a 4 or 5 year old. And I homeschooled her so…

Two (or more) kids has always been my norm.

You may do well moving to a more SAHM friendly country—Ireland or whatever. You seem to not like Germany very much and you’re in the EU, so why not take advantage of it?

 

[1ke]

Personally, I think so, too. I am so shy in telling him this when he asks because I don´t want him to be alone (we are living away from the next town then and I fear he will have problems to get to know new people…).

You can’t be captain of his social ship. He is a big boy. He can own it. He may not share your fear of being alone. Especially if he is an introvert type personality. You may be projecting your own fears and needs onto him, and he may not share them.

If he does share them, you can problem solve together on ways to meet people.

I understand they were (and are in a way still) important for him as they grew up together and I am not a fan of letting people go if there isn´t a personal benefit anymore, but for me, the situation is clear

You also have to be OK with the fact that he may not take your advice. He may want to maintain these friendships and he may make effort to do so. He may face disappointment if they don’t reciprocate. He’s a big boy, he will be OK. He may take some lumps, and you have to let him.

 

[alice24]

Oh ok, this makes a difference. I have no younger relatives, they are all older. My friend´s child is the only child I got in closer contact in the last years.

I thought about this…I will need to finish my studies in a way we can make something useful out of it, this will take some years where moving would not be useful. We planed to have our first child when I am still officially a student, because they offer more care and service than a usual worplace. We have this house given by his parents that still needs to be payed, and his mother, who worked fulltime the last years for paying it, sadly won´t be living long, so there is no one instead of us paying the house where his father and brother are living. This bounds us here for the next time. I will need to find a good business idea in the next final time of my studies and hope to get more independet from society with that.
Your idea is still good, I will bring this up and check out some marked data for some places in the next time.

 

[Xantippe]

He told me, for example, with a biiig shame and excuse on his face that he fears he wouldn´t find me sexually attractive during pregnancy, and was very happy with me understanding this feel. Everything ok. But this friend theme was always a bit tricky for me.

I suspect that with pregnancy, abstinence often makes the heart grow fonder. (You might not recognize this, but it’s an adaptation of an English proverb that “absence makes the heart grow fonder.”

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Oh ok, this makes a difference. I have no younger relatives, they are all older. My friend´s child is the only child I got in closer contact in the last years.

I thought about this…I will need to finish my studies in a way we can make something useful out of it, this will take some years where moving would not be useful. We planed to have our first child when I am still officially a student, because they offer more care and service than a usual worplace. We have this house given by his parents that still needs to be payed, and his mother, who worked fulltime the last years for paying it, sadly won´t be living long, so there is no one instead of us paying the house where his father and brother are living. This bounds us here for the next time. I will need to find a good business idea in the next final time of my studies and hope to get more independet from society with that.
Your idea is still good, I will bring this up and check out some marked data for some places in the next time.

Hmmm…why are you paying for his brother…I’m guessing a fully capable adult…to live? I get helping your elders but do not sacrifice your happiness for a house. It may mean finding better living conditions that are more affordable. Yes, there are sentimental attachments, but sometimes one has to draw reasonable boundaries. You do NOT want to get trapped in a “black hole” situation with a house. It won’t get better…believe me.

 

[Xantippe]

Another thing is, if he’s working and likes some of the people he works with, I wouldn’t be that worried about his friendships.

I’d be much more worried about you and your friendships once you’re staying home with children, if that isn’t the norm in your area.

By the way, your options are probably rather different, but here in the US we have one and two-day 5-hour programs called “parents’ day out” which is extremely handy for things like mom’s haircuts, dentist, doctor apts, etc. I started our two older kids in preschool (9-12) and parents’ day out (9:30-2:30ish) at 3 years old, but I found that with our youngest, I was going crazy with not being able to find time for getting my hair cut or seeing the doctor. Our youngest started at almost 2 and it worked fine–this was much earlier than for the older kids.

So, even if you don’t do an organized program, try to figure out how to have at least a little childcare to cover your appointments.

 

[alice24]

Oh ok, this makes a difference. I have no younger relatives, they are all older. My friend´s child is the only child I got in closer contact in the last years.

I thought about this…I will need to finish my studies in a way we can make something useful out of it, this will take some years where moving would not be useful. We planed to have our first child when I am still officially a student, because they offer more care and service than a usual worplace. We have this house given by his parents that still needs to be payed, and his mother, who worked fulltime the last years for paying it, sadly won´t be living long, so there is no one instead of us paying the house where his father and brother are living. This bounds us here for the next time. I will need to find a good business idea in the next final time of my studies and hope to get more independet from society with that.

Your idea is still good, I will bring this up and check out some marked data for some places in the next time.



Hmmm…why are you paying for his brother…I’m guessing a fully capable adult…to live? I get helping your elders but do not sacrifice your happiness for a house. It may mean finding better living conditions that are more affordable. Yes, there are sentimental attachments, but sometimes one has to draw reasonable boundaries. You do NOT want to get trapped in a “black hole” situation with a house. It won’t get better…believe me.

Not paying his part of rent, but he earns not as half of the money his mother earned. Not my issue, I know, I won´t pay for him. It´s more the thing that I won´t see his father move out. And, when it comes to fiancé and me, we won´t find a suitable flat for the price we pay for the house. It´s hard work here, but every thing is installed know, there is space for all of us plus children and animals and we will live near enough to frankfurt where you can find at least anything to work.

 

[alice24]

Another thing is, if he’s working and likes some of the people he works with, I wouldn’t be that worried about his friendships.

I’d be much more worried about you and your friendships once you’re staying home with children, if that isn’t the norm in your area.

By the way, your options are probably rather different, but here in the US we have one and two-day 5-hour programs called “parents’ day out” which is extremely handy for things like mom’s haircuts, dentist, doctor apts, etc. I started our two older kids in preschool (9-12) and parents’ day out (9:30-2:30ish) at 3 years old, but I found that with our youngest, I was going crazy with not being able to find time for getting my hair cut or seeing the doctor. Our youngest started at almost 2 and it worked fine–this was much earlier than for the older kids.

So, even if you don’t do an organized program, try to figure out how to have at least a little childcare to cover your appointments.

I hope he will find new people. He had a traineeship this year with a student of catholic theology and they had a lot of fun working together. I asked him if we could go out with this guy and his girlfriend this weekend and both were happy with the idea, so, I hope his circle will change by the time.
When it comes to me I am more worried, you´re right. I had a talk with a state office lady who coordinates workplaces in their office, and it seems to be the best way for our “future job problem” if fiancé would start a new education.
This would take 2 years with a low income, but not lower than mine now, with very stable future conditions. I could do the same or stay at university for the time children are young.
The first option would grant me better future condition, but would not let me much space for staying at home more than 1-1,5 years. Option two is “stay at home friendly” for the first time but would leave me with an almost useless degree. If I would take option one, I won´t be that lonely, but with option two, I would be mainly alone here, but tehre would be a way to get child care servive via university so that I could take a day off per week.

 

[alice24]

I suspect that with pregnancy, abstinence often makes the heart grow fonder. (You might not recognize this, but it’s an adaptation of an English proverb that “absence makes the heart grow fonder.”

This is a very, very sweet statement

 

[alice24]

You can’t be captain of his social ship. He is a big boy. He can own it. He may not share your fear of being alone. Especially if he is an introvert type personality. You may be projecting your own fears and needs onto him, and he may not share them.

If he does share them, you can problem solve together on ways to meet people.

He does share this worry. He told me more than one time he is highly annoyed because of them and that he thinks he has to face tha fact that he needs more new people in his life. We checked out the local register for interest groups as sports, arts, cultural events. Sadly, those clubs are extremely overaged here in the german countryside. You hardly find a theater group or something like that with mebers under the age of 60

 

[AdamP88]

This