Dealing with non-Catholics in Catholic Schools

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I think that if the child is old enough, it is an important thing to know that leaving the Church is a serious matter. But I think “apostate” is more accurate than “heretic”. 😉
That depends upon what the person has renounced and to what they now adhere:

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
 
In more and more parish schools, non-Catholics are becoming a larger part of the population. As more than one local priest has told me. The parish school is “no longer viable in many cases without our non-Catholic students and their parents.”
  1. Strike the word “heretic” from your vocabulary.
    I have never had a problem with myself or my children being called heretics. That is one thing that I must say in favor of Catholic Schools, the students and teachers learn the Word, grow through the Word and love each other unconditionally… isn’t that what every person whether Catholic or Christian (Protestant) really wants.
  2. Don’t pretend we’re not there.
    Again, this has never been a problem in my children’s school… the teachers and administration know about our faith background and have never tried to exclude either of my children or myself from school functions or school masses. The LCC (Lutheran Church Canada) and the Canadian Catholic diocese have allowed mixed communion between our two churches for years now. I am free to commune during Catholic mass and Catholics are welcome to the Lord’s Supper during my church service.
    In fact, after talking with my son’s principal last spring I came to see exactly what unconditional love is… She said that she cared about Caleb with all of her heart and was happy that he was actively living for Jesus. She told me that she would rather have a school full of non-Catholic children who regularly heard the Word and attended church, then to have a school full of Catholic children who never attended mass and who only got to attend the school because their parents claimed to be Catholic.
  3. Do your best not to use the words “in error” when it comes to discussing other faiths. If a non-catholic child is in a catholic school (like my children are) it should not be expected that the school would back down on doctrine or tradition in order to make a child “comfortable”.
My son’s teachers have been very good at letting me know what my son is learning in religion class… they have never told him that “he is wrong” but have let him know that he is loved by his classmates and ACCEPTED FOR WHO HE IS! So far in three years at that school, my son has not been treated differently for his beliefs. He is loving learning about the Catholic faith and has asked me to take him to Mass… of course I have never refused a request of any of my children to get closer to God.
4) Do not assume protestants of any denomination would certainly be Catholic if they just knew
My children have learned so much about their faith and have grown because of what they have been taught in the catholic school system. If I remember my history correctly, Martin Luther (who founded the Lutheran faith) was originally a Catholic priest. Much of what takes place in my congregation’s services is almost exactly the same as in the Catholic Mass.
5) “One true church” is a term protestants will always pull back from. Instead, consider saying the Catholic Church, we believe, delivers the full measure of God’s truth and grace in a way that is like no other…"
In the Apostle’s Creed, which is said in both the lutheran and Catholic Church, the third stanza states “I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of Sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting.” Note that it says “Holy Catholic Church”… I have never heard anyone in my Lutheran Congregation complain about those words.
One True Church means the body of believers, it should not be seen to mean “we are right and you are wrong!”
7) You have every right and expectation for non-Catholics to show respect for your beliefs and for them to FULLY participate in your school’s religious instruction and to participate in your religious services up to the point allowable under both faiths.
Even as a Lutheran parent of children attending a Catholic School, I would never expect the school to water things down or dummy things up for my children. My son has never had a problem with participating in religious life at his school… he loves the Lord with all of his heart and takes every opportunity he has to learn and grow in the Word. He has been asked by teachers to read from the Word during school “celebrations”.
9) Some protestants have a hard time with the title “father.” It’s not meant as a sign of disrespect if a protestant calls a priest Pastor or Reverend.
Again, I do not see what the problem is… no one gets upset when we address the President as President Obama or the Prime Minister of Canada as Prime Minister Steven Harper. These titles and the title of Father are a sign of respect. I know that my Pastor has been called “Father” on occasion and he has never once felt like someone has disrespected him. My son accidently addressed the Father at our local parish as Pastor and he was not reprimanded or made to feel bad about his mistake. Both the Father and myself explained that the proper term was Father and that it was great that he was respectful enough to give the Father a title.
  1. Create appropriate opportunities for Non-Catholics to participate in the school, the church.
    Again, never been a problem in my children’s school. I have spoken with our local Catholic Parish and have been told that as a practicing Lutheran that I was welcome at the Lord’s Table as long as my faith was strong.
 
Good. I was looking for feedback. Know however, that this list, other than #9, is already accepted and in affect in at least a half dozen schools that feel they must market to non-Catholics in order to survive. Keep in mind in many Catholic schools there is a large influx of voucher kids from public school deemed ineffective. OR those sent to Catholic schools because the local public school environment is deemed unacceptable by their parents. In my case the options were: A) Move (not really an option considering the housing market) B) Private secular school, which we did for a year to the tune of $18,000 for kindergarten C) Public school which has provided more headlines for the police blotter than it has the education page in the local paper, or D) Catholic School which provided a safe, disciplined learning environment and an effective education for less than 1/4 of the price of private school. As we look at the mission statement of the local Catholic Schools in my area, notice the words that are missing: “Catholic” which was taken out two years ago (before my time so don’t blame me) and replaced with Christian.

…exists to provide a Christ-centered education that prepares the students to become productive Christian citizens. Our school community integrates spirituality with the students’ moral, intellectual, social, cultural, and physical development. This type of education requires a parent-school partnership. The school’s role is to aid the parents in educating their children by encouraging parent involvement in the religious as well as the academic activities of the school.
Then it is no longer a Catholic School. It is merely a school being operated by Catholics.

Further, I find it hard to believe that any Bishop would allow this to happen in his diocese.

I am also detecting from the threads you have started, you are more concerned with things being politically correct. That is clear from this thread, and it is also clear from the thread about being “snubbed”. Where you were concerned with the Priest not specifically thanking the “non”-Catholics.

I know in our diocese, (Peoria, Illinois) this type of mission statement would never fly. In fact, I could reasonably see our Bishops head spin off into outer space if someone even hinted at it.

I stand by what I said earlier, and what several posters have said. If you don’t want your children to have a “Catholic” education, then don’t send them to a “Catholic” school… There are alternatives out there, including other faith based schools. I know in my area alone, there are Catholic, Lutheran, and “Christian” schools. I would find it hard to believe that those options are not available in your area also.
 
The Time magazine article you quoted proved what I said in an earlier post.

These schools are no longer Catholic schools, but are now schools run by Catholics.
“converting to **charter **schools,”, and “Last year, in a controversial and mostly untested move, seven Catholic schools in Washington converted to **charter **schools. In Miami, eight schools have followed the same route.”

Changing to a Charter school is much different than being a traditional Catholic school.

The fact remains that if the school is being run by a Catholic church, the individuals attending, whether they are protestant or Catholic need to abide by the rules and regulations set down by the administration.

If the parents don’t like the rules, enroll the child elsewhere. It isn’t about being politically correct, it is about providing an education.
 
This is what your above choices translate to:

This was an economic decision for us-- we want a great education at a great price-- but we want to have our cake and eat it too by having the Catholic school tone down all that Catholic stuff.

It’s a CATHOLIC school It has every right to teach Catholic doctrine in an unapologetic manner and state is as what we believe it is: THE truth. Not “a” truth-- the truth.
*I agree. I see nothing wrong with opening up the school to anyone who wishes to attend, but the Catholic school should be teaching the tenets of the faith with charity, but with zeal. *
 
I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, I really don’t, however, I have to ask this question.

If I and several of my friends decide to send our children to a protestant based school, can we expect the school to allow for our Catholic beliefs?..I mean after all, doesn’t it work the same for both ways?🤷
 
This makes me really, really sad. I think what may happen is that Catholic families will be driven away even more. I know I wouldn’t want to pay for my child to have a “Catholic” education that wasn’t really Catholic and in fact, intentionally designed to downplay Catholicism.
*I am saddened reading this too. Again, the school should be open to anyone to attend, but not with the notion that the school should stop teaching the true tenets of Catholicism. Then, it shouldn’t promote itself as a ‘‘Catholic’’ school then…a Catholic school teaches the beliefs of the Church. :confused: I think that it’s one thing to make students all feel welcome (which of course is a good thing, and should be expected) but another thing entirely to change the premise of a Catholic school, which is to foster the teaching of the Catholic faith, in order to not make people feel uncomfortable who are not Catholic. *
 
Good. I was looking for feedback. Know however, that this list, other than #9, is already accepted and in affect in at least a half dozen schools that feel they must market to non-Catholics in order to survive. Keep in mind in many Catholic schools there is a large influx of voucher kids from public school deemed ineffective. OR those sent to Catholic schools because the local public school environment is deemed unacceptable by their parents. In my case the options were: A) Move (not really an option considering the housing market) B) Private secular school, which we did for a year to the tune of $18,000 for kindergarten C) Public school which has provided more headlines for the police blotter than it has the education page in the local paper, or D) Catholic School which provided a safe, disciplined learning environment and an effective education for less than 1/4 of the price of private school. As we look at the mission statement of the local Catholic Schools in my area, notice the words that are missing: “Catholic” which was taken out two years ago (before my time so don’t blame me) and replaced with Christian.

…exists to provide a Christ-centered education that prepares the students to become productive Christian citizens. Our school community integrates spirituality with the students’ moral, intellectual, social, cultural, and physical development. This type of education requires a parent-school partnership. The school’s role is to aid the parents in educating their children by encouraging parent involvement in the religious as well as the academic activities of the school.
While we Catholics should always be respectful to non-Catholics and even “cafeteria catholics”, we must never water down the Truth of Jesus Christ as taught by His Catholic Church to stay “in business” or to be “PC.”

Jesus didn’t mince words when addressing misguided people; “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” (Mt 7:15).

We are called to preach the Gospel, all of the Gospel, not just the convenient parts. Maybe we should have fewer Catholic schools and hospitals and even fewer Catholics, in order to remain loyal to Jesus.

**The early martyrs didn’t offer incense and proclaim the Roman emperors were gods in order to stay alive! They died defending the Truth of Jesus Christ.
**

This is a clear teaching moment and the “We Catholics believe…” statements must also be backed up with Sacred Scripture, the teachings of the early Church Fathers and the Teaching Magisterium of the Church along with Sacred Tradition, to show the errors in those beliefs of other Christians or non-believers that are false.

Pope Benedict XVI, the former German university professor, told over 400 heads of U.S. Catholic universities, colleges and schools in April 2008, “**A university or school’s Catholic identity is not simply a question of the number of Catholic students. It is a question of conviction,” he said. “Do we accept the truth Christ reveals? Is faith tangible in our universities and schools?”
**(reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1716855820080417)

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
While we Catholics should always be respectful to non-Catholics and even “cafeteria catholics”, we must never water down the Truth of Jesus Christ as taught by His Catholic Church to stay “in business” or to be “PC.”

Jesus didn’t mince words when addressing misguided people; “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” (Mt 7:15).

We are called to preach the Gospel, all of the Gospel, not just the convenient parts. Maybe we should have fewer Catholic schools and hospitals and even fewer Catholics, in order to remain loyal to Jesus.

**The early martyrs didn’t offer incense and proclaim the Roman emperors were gods in order to stay alive! They died defending the Truth of Jesus Christ.
**

This is a clear teaching moment and the “We Catholics believe…” statements must also be backed up with Sacred Scripture, the teachings of the early Church Fathers and the Teaching Magisterium of the Church along with Sacred Tradition, to show the errors in those beliefs of other Christians or non-believers that are false.

Pope Benedict XVI, the former German university professor, told over 400 heads of U.S. Catholic universities, colleges and schools in April 2008, “**A university or school’s Catholic identity is not simply a question of the number of Catholic students. It is a question of conviction,” he said. “Do we accept the truth Christ reveals? Is faith tangible in our universities and schools?”
**(reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1716855820080417)

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
Amen.
 
I would think if someone attends a catholic school they must adhere to its rules. It’s not, after all, a publicly funded school. It has no legal obligation to accommodate the religious practices of other faiths (nor should they). How a religious school chooses to integrate children from other faiths (and whether or not they will even accept children from other faiths) is a discretionary matter. This goes directly to our concept of religious freedom in this country (and arguably our right of assembly).
 
Again, never been a problem in my children’s school. I have spoken with our local Catholic Parish and have been told that as a practicing Lutheran that I was welcome at the Lord’s Table as long as my faith was strong.
Again, this has never been a problem in my children’s school… the teachers and administration know about our faith background and have never tried to exclude either of my children or myself from school functions or school masses. The LCC (Lutheran Church Canada) and the Canadian Catholic diocese have allowed mixed communion between our two churches for years now. I am free to commune during Catholic mass and Catholics are welcome to the Lord’s Supper during my church service.
At the risk of taking this thread way off track, I need to ask you to provide some documentation for this.

There is no single Canadian Catholic diocese. Although a Bishop can give permission to an individual non-Catholic to receive Communion in the Catholic Church under **very narrow **conditions and circumstances, I don’t believe a Bishop can extend a blanket invitation to all members of the Lutheran Church Canada. :eek: I hope you have misunderstood something you were told or read.
 
In more and more parish schools, non-Catholics are becoming a larger part of the population. As more than one local priest has told me. The parish school is “no longer viable in many cases without our non-Catholic students and their parents.” In some Cleveland area parish schools, the number of non-Catholic students is nearly 50%

Still, there are times when older teachers, grandparents, and even priests have, most often unknowingly, given their protestant friends pause if not outright insulted them. I am now teaching a brief seminar to a few schools on how to avoid this danger.
  1. Strike the word “heretic” from your vocabulary. While it may be technically correct it’s both outdated and highly insulting and strikes in protestants the same chord the words pape or mackerel snapper strikes with you.
  2. Don’t pretend were not there. At your services or school functions welcome everyone or welcome no one.
  3. Do your best not to use the words “in error” when it comes to discussing other faiths. Use terms such as “disagree” or “where the two faiths diverge is…” Or, “differences occur when we get to…” Protestants feel just as strongly as you do about their religious beliefs and nothing comes from starting a conversation with the statement: “Where you’re wrong is…” When teaching religion to a class that has non-Catholics don’t use terms like “We all believe…” Use terms like “Catholics believe…” or the “The Catholic Church teaches…”
  4. Do not assume protestants of any denomination would certainly be Catholic if they just knew…It’s not usually the case. And there are many protestants who think the same thing about Catholics, that you’d all be protestant if you just knew…" It’s not true in either direction.
  5. “One true church” is a term protestants will always pull back from. Instead, consider saying the Catholic Church, we believe, delivers the full measure of God’s truth and grace in a way that is like no other…" Most mainstream protestants do NOT think their faith is the only truth but merely one of multiple paths going in the same direction and offer all that they need. We are taken aback when someone says they do not.
  6. Realize that when you argue social policy or certain matters of faith that the protestant has no obligation to the Pope, nor Catholic tradition, nor Canon Law and any argument based on those foundations will be meaningless to Protestant.
  7. You have every right and expectation for non-Catholics to show respect for your beliefs and for them to FULLY participate in your school’s religious instruction and to participate in your religious services up to the point allowable under both faiths.
    Religion teachers have an obligation to be familiar with other faiths and where conflicts may occur. Parents of non-Catholic students have the right and obligation to explain differences to their children. Don’t be shocked when non-Catholic children ask questions of voice disagreement with things. It is certainly fine to remind them that differences are acceptable when respectful, but that they are in a Catholic school and as such they should expect Catholic doctrine to be taught. Use these as teachable moments for the whole class.
  8. Don’t be afraid to approach us. We often have a lot of questions that many of us don’t even know how to go about asking. I would suggest printing a small sheet or pamphlet that explains some of the most common misperceptions between protestants and Catholics.
  9. Some protestants have a hard time with the title “father.” It’s not meant as a sign of disrespect if a protestant calls a priest Pastor or Reverend.
  10. Create appropriate opportunities for Non-Catholics to participate in the school, the church.
I have to say that I hope these schools aren’t taking your advice. The assumption that Catholic doctrine isn’t true seems to be behind many of these suggestions, and the idea that students should not be offended seems to come out of concern for tuition dollars, not sound education.
 
Point 9 really got to me. Even if “Pastor” isn’t meant to be disrespectful, it kind of is. The OP had several points about how Catholic schools should avoid words and phrases (eg replacing heresies with “disagreements”) that the Church is the one true religion in order to make the Protestant children feel good about themselves, yet the Protestants are asked to make no such compromise and should be allowed to use whatever title they feel like?
Actually, I believe he addressed this issue in item 7. We have two issues here: first, by enrolling non-Catholic children in Catholic schools, the parents of those kids MUST understand that the school is a religious school. Catholicism will be taught…In fact, that’s one of the reasons a parent would choose to put a non-Catholic child in a Catholic school: the quality of education is in great part affected by the nature of the school–as a religious school.

The other issue is…by allowing non-Catholic students to enroll and attend, the school itself is tacitly agreeing that there ARE students who do not share their faith. If the school isn’t going to be courteous to the students in this matter, then they shouldn’t allow non-Catholic students to attend. This matter of respect does go both ways.

As to calling a priest 'father…" I don’t see a problem with that, other than noting the irony. It’s your clergy. You have every right to call yourselves whatever you want, and ask that this be respected. I might stop short at kissing rings, but then I’m Mormon. We are strange. All know this.
 
No offence to our Protestant brothers and sisters, but if you pay for your childeren to get a Catholic education then that is exactly what they should get. They should get the full truth of faith, as reveled to the church which was built upon the rock Peter [Rock]. This includes a lot of beauty, and a lot of commonality with our Protestant brothers and sisters. This also includes a lot of things which might make you squimish, like the fact that there really are such things as heritics, and that schisim is in fact heresy. That’s just a fact that you have to deal with. What you’re asking would is no different than asking a Catholic school to tone down the Christian message because there happenst to be a Muslim, or Athiest student there. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. You paid a lot of money to send your kid to a Christian school, most specifically you spent good money to send your kid to a Catholic Christian school. Expect to get your money’s worth. If you don’t want them getting a Catholic education, then do the same thing Catholics do with regard to not wanting our kids to get a Lutheran or other Protestant education, we don’t send them to Protestant schools!
 
LT,
One of my complaints when I was ELCA was that a number of ELCA colleges seemed to want to hide their Lutheranism. A good example is Gettysburg, where finding the word Lutheran on their website is a challenge. When my daughter wash searching for a college, we visited Lenior Rhyne, and we got the feeling that Lutheranism took a backseat to being PC. She also considered Belmont Abbey College, unabashedly Catholic. It was much more inviting, more honest, than LRC.
She is now at a Concordia college where Lutheranism is not something to be hidden. I would expect Catholic schools to be proud of their catholicity, while practicing the open charity that the Benedictine tradition seems to promote.

Jon
 
The other issue is…by allowing non-Catholic students to enroll and attend, the school itself is tacitly agreeing that there ARE students who do not share their faith. If the school isn’t going to be courteous to the students in this matter, then they shouldn’t allow non-Catholic students to attend.
Excuse me, but nothing she listed had anything to do with simply courtesy, and everything to do with downplaying Catholicism in Catholic schools. Non-Catholics have been attending Catholic schools for generations and somehow all those kids managed to live through it. What is discourteous is sending your child to a school run by another faith and expecting that school to bend to your wishes regarding its approach to faith.
 
Just my thoughts as a parent that has sent her children to a Catholic School…

I would NOT recommend that a non-Catholic send their children to a Catholic School unless they are prepared to address with their children the many difference that come up. I can’t tell you how many times I had to tell my son for a religion test to “Spit it out for the test, but this is what we believe and why…” Our youngest could not understand why she was not able to receive Communion at Wednesday Mass – it didn’t make sense to her that someone would deny her Jesus Christ. (Mark 10:13-16 )

Sure the Catholic Schools love to see a non-Catholic family enter their school since we pay more tuition. lol!

Something that surprised me was that the second graders were having to go to their home parish and attend CCD for making their First Communion and First Confession. They were not making these as a class at school. I would of been ticked if I was sending my child to a Catholic School and had to send them to CCD as well.:confused: You would think that a Catholic student would be fully prepared on these Sacraments in the Catholic School.

I don’t think that non-Catholics should expect for the Catholic faith to be watered down. If we choose to send our children to a Catholic School, we need to understand what that truly means. We are all Christians, but there are some major beliefs/practices that we all don’t share. Sending your child to ANY Christian Church School that you don’t share the same faith with is a major decision.

God Bless!
 
At the risk of taking this thread way off track, I need to ask you to provide some documentation for this.

There is no single Canadian Catholic diocese. Although a Bishop can give permission to an individual non-Catholic to receive Communion in the Catholic Church under **very narrow **conditions and circumstances, I don’t believe a Bishop can extend a blanket invitation to all members of the Lutheran Church Canada. :eek: I hope you have misunderstood something you were told or read.
I was wondering if someone else had caught that as well. Hopefully it was a misunderstanding. Here it is from the Catechism of the Church. About as authoritative as it gets.

Under “The fruits of Holy Communion”
1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240
crowtherkid(name removed by moderator),
If someone told you that you or your child could receive the Holy Eucharist as Lutherans they where wrong. This is why I stated in my above post, #5, that outside of the Sacraments you can participate. Receiving the Holy Eucharist signifies that you are in union with us in belief when the reality is that you are not.
 
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