Dealing with others morals at work

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Adamski

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Owning my own landscape business it is hard for me to recognize people that are angling to get the most from others. It is a common thread that clients that many non Christian or non Jewish are pushing the limits to get items for free. I make the mistake of thinking the best in people when sadly about 2/3rds want to just get the most out of me and think poorly about me even when I do extra for them. Any advise
 
Owning my own landscape business it is hard for me to recognize people that are angling to get the most from others. It is a common thread that clients that many non Christian or non Jewish are pushing the limits to get items for free. I make the mistake of thinking the best in people when sadly about 2/3rds want to just get the most out of me and think poorly about me even when I do extra for them. Any advise
Well, there’s a huge difference between trying to get a good deal, which is not immoral or unethical, and then trying to steal from your business. If you’re not comfortable with a potential client, don’t make a contract with them. Once you have the contract, stick to it.

I had landscaping work done last year and I went with the landscaper who offered me the best work at the lowest price. I was really happy with him, but he’s the one who offered to do the same work as the other two I asked to provide an estimate, for over $1500 less. If he felt like that wasn’t a fair price, he shouldn’t have offered it.

Without details it’s hard to know your particular situation. I know many consumers are regularly irritated by contractors for all kinds of services, and keep out a watchful eye for rip-offs. A few years ago, my husband was able to save an elderly couple from spending tens of thousands of dollars on unnecessary plumbing work that they were being told was absolutely essential (he was responsible for issuing a permit for the work). I’m really thankful he knows the right questions to ask. Many people don’t, and there are many people who take advantage of that.

I also know 100% that it’s far from only non-religious people who behave unethically when it comes to matters of business. That’s unfortunate, but it’s true. I imagine people who come to my home can figure out I’m Catholic, but I don’t know about them. I check their reviews and ask for references to figure out if they can do the job I want them to do at a fair price. 🤷
 
I do a lot of work for people that can’t physically do the items and I feel bad when they ask
“Will you throw away by broken BBQ”
“Will you move this big rock”
“Will you saw those three big branches”

I feel compassion for them and before you know it I am doing 8 hours of work for free on a 5 day project.
 
I bet you are good and what you do, and I also think that you are probably a nice guy. And that is why people probably ask you to do extra. But maybe you need to be clearer about what you are being paid to do. If these are elderly people, I would feel as you do too and want to help them, but even that has to have its limits.

If it really going to cause you 5 hours extra, you should let them know there will be an additional charge. If you have to pay to dump their grill or make a special trip there, you will need to pass that cost on to them.

Yes, it is a fine line that goes between creating goodwill for your business, or being abused by customers because you are too kind, or can’t bring yourself to say no because you are nice.

"I would be happy to cut down those branches, but I am going to have to charge you to cut them up afterward and take them to the landfill. "
 
I do a lot of work for people that can’t physically do the items and I feel bad when they ask
“Will you throw away by broken BBQ”
“Will you move this big rock”
“Will you saw those three big branches”

I feel compassion for them and before you know it I am doing 8 hours of work for free on a 5 day project.
As other said, either refuse to do the extra tasks or tell customers what you’ll charge to have the work done.

I don’t know where anyone’s religion comes into this. This seems a matter of business practices and communication.
 
I do a lot of work for people that can’t physically do the items and I feel bad when they ask
“Will you throw away by broken BBQ”
“Will you move this big rock”
“Will you saw those three big branches”

I feel compassion for them and before you know it I am doing 8 hours of work for free on a 5 day project.
It’s hard to know how to advise one…only you can really determine what is right…

But - - I wonder if we sometimes don’t put too much emphasis on “labor hours” and “rates” and such…
Are you fed? Are you housed? Are you keeping your other expenses up?
If yes - then why trouble yourself over doing a few extras - especially for those who you know cannot do for themselves.

On the other hand - I understand how such things can eat into your ability to earn a proper living and there is a point where one must draw the line. Tossing someone’s old BBQ is pretty easy - sawing branches and moving rocks…well that’s another issue…

Peace
James
 
I do a lot of work for people that can’t physically do the items and I feel bad when they ask
“Will you throw away by broken BBQ”
“Will you move this big rock”
“Will you saw those three big branches”

I feel compassion for them and before you know it I am doing 8 hours of work for free on a 5 day project.
When they ask, assume they expect to pay for the extra work and quote them a price. “Well, yes, but I’d charge $20, plus whatever the disposal fee I have to pay to get rid of it” or “That ought to take about 20 minutes, by the time we get the mess cleaned up, so sure, we can take care of those branches for, let’s say, $X. That’s for piling the branches for your regular lawn service to haul off or to hack them up small enough for your curbside composting pick-up. Hauling it away will cost us extra, because we don’t get free composting. We’re commercial, so when we dump, we pay.”

Sure, people may hope you’ll “roll it in,” and be happy if you do, but they’ll not be offended to be gently told that you are trying to make a living while your back is still good, against the day when you’ll be paying someone else to do your yard for you, and that you will incur expenses for doing what they propose. Do unto them as you’ll want to be done by and will expect to do for your future employees, and don’t feel guilty about it. If they don’t like your price, they can negotiate or else find someone else.

We talked to a fellow who gave us a low bid for a project, and asked him why the others were so high. He told us he personally puts a high bid in for a project he’s not that wild to take, and lower bids when he is more in need of work. That seemed reasonable to us. IOW: don’t overthink your quotes. Ask for what would make it worth your while, which can change from day to day. That is the beauty of being an independent contractor.
 
As other said, either refuse to do the extra tasks or tell customers what you’ll charge to have the work done.

I don’t know where anyone’s religion comes into this. This seems a matter of business practices and communication.
Absolutely. If something’s going to cost you extra time & effort (like sawing three big branches!), tell them you’ll be happy to (if you would), but since that wasn’t included in the original job, it will cost an additional $___. That’s perfectly reasonable and professional.

P.S. I think some people may not realize (because they don’t stop to think) that this will take you extra time and effort, which are exactly the things they’re paying you for. They’re not all deliberately trying to put one over on you.
 
I do a lot of work for people that can’t physically do the items and I feel bad when they ask
“Will you throw away by broken BBQ”
“Will you move this big rock”
“Will you saw those three big branches”

I feel compassion for them and before you know it I am doing 8 hours of work for free on a 5 day project.
This is less about morals and more to do with someone adding to the to do list.It’s not uncommon to have someone working on a job and think, “Oh, X, Y, Z needs done too,” as kind of an afterthought.

Many contractors, including the ones my family uses over and over, routinely do small extras with no extra charge. Between my parents, in-laws, brothers’ family, and us, we’ve easily given them 200K of business. Those little extras they do cheerfully have led to repeat business from us and referrals. When the extras aren’t small, they negotiate an additional fee. And we expect that. (We also feed them at least a couple times a week and I buy a case of beer for them on Fridays.)

If you’re finding this happens often, and you can’t manage extras you may need to re-structure your contract discussions. Let people know what the limits of the contract are and let them know that if they have extra requests, they will be billed per (present a schedule.) That way everything’s clear and tidy upfront. Then, when they ask, you can refer then back to the fee structure you’ve already presented.
 
It’s hard to know how to advise one…only you can really determine what is right…

But - - I wonder if we sometimes don’t put too much emphasis on “labor hours” and “rates” and such…
Are you fed? Are you housed? Are you keeping your other expenses up?
If yes - then why trouble yourself over doing a few extras - especially for those who you know cannot do for themselves.

On the other hand - I understand how such things can eat into your ability to earn a proper living and there is a point where one must draw the line. Tossing someone’s old BBQ is pretty easy - sawing branches and moving rocks…well that’s another issue…

Peace
James
There is the Lord’s maxim of dealing with those who forcibly put you over a barrel by going beyond their pressing, to show good will. Still, his back is not going to last forever. It is no insult to quote a price for add-ons requested by a customer. Most expect this, even if they grouse about actually being charged for all the services they are getting. That someone grumbles does not mean that even they can really argue they’ve been ill-used.

Actually, it is not bad practice to quote a price even when you intend to do the job for free to sweeten a bigger deal you’ve agreed to do and to cement the business relationship. That way, the customer knows the value of what you’ve done for them, and don’t impose on some other contractor later on down the road, as if the work were worth nothing. You may wave off offers to pay with, “oh, we like to throw in a few freebies,” but you don’t want to teach them to misuse the next guys. They may also realize that you will eventually come to the end of your willingness to work for nothing, having not been taught that “little things” are something they ought to feel entitled to get from their contractors for free.
 
Absolutely. If something’s going to cost you extra time & effort (like sawing three big branches!), tell them you’ll be happy to (if you would), but since that wasn’t included in the original job, it will cost an additional $___. That’s perfectly reasonable and professional.

P.S. I think some people may not realize (because they don’t stop to think) that this will take you extra time and effort, which are exactly the things they’re paying you for. They’re not all deliberately trying to put one over on you.
Exactly.
 
I also know 100% that it’s far from only non-religious people who behave unethically when it comes to matters of business. That’s unfortunate, but it’s true. I imagine people who come to my home can figure out I’m Catholic, but I don’t know about them. I check their reviews and ask for references to figure out if they can do the job I want them to do at a fair price. 🤷
So true. Some of the biggest rip-off artists I’ve encountered have been “Christians.” Whenever I am interviewing contractors to do work in or around my home, if someone starts making a big deal about the fact that they are Christians, I suddenly see big red flags. It’s been my experience that they play the Christian card when the quality of their work cannot stand up to scrutiny. This is not always the case, of course, but it’s happened often enough that I tread carefully when someone starts telling me about their personal relationship with Jesus.
 
Owning my own landscape business it is hard for me to recognize people that are angling to get the most from others. It is a common thread that clients that many non Christian or non Jewish are pushing the limits to get items for free. I make the mistake of thinking the best in people when sadly about 2/3rds want to just get the most out of me and think poorly about me even when I do extra for them. Any advise
Frankly, a lot cultures don’t understand the difference between Expenses and Payments and that leads to suffering. In the west, we tent to commit to paying our expenses as a point of honor. Other cultures, hold on to their payments (money flowing out) as a point of stability for their family.

When these two worlds collide, there can be suffering.

Frankly, when you sense a ‘payment’ culture - you need to be forthcoming and demand 100% payment upfront at at 75% completion. You may not get the business, but then again you weren’t going to get paid to begin with 🙂

Now that the economy is heating up again (slightly) you can be picky about who you do business with and do business on agreed terms of your choosing.
 
I do a lot of work for people that can’t physically do the items and I feel bad when they ask
“Will you throw away by broken BBQ”
“Will you move this big rock”
“Will you saw those three big branches”

I feel compassion for them and before you know it I am doing 8 hours of work for free on a 5 day project.
That’s what Change Orders are for. 🙂

You write up a ticket with the fees for the extra work, the you agree, then they (hopefully) pay you.
 
So true. Some of the biggest rip-off artists I’ve encountered have been “Christians.”
There’s actually a good psychological model for that - in that those that have an outward display of morality, can tend to discount morality in other aspects of their lives.

The same thing can be shown in other aspects of moral posturing other than the blatant Christian - Toyota Prius drives with their outward display of environmental morality, have been shown to have less morality in other aspects of driving; Like not yielding to pedestrian in this example:

headhearthand.org/blog/2012/03/08/ethical-cars-with-unethical-drivers/
 
So true. Some of the biggest rip-off artists I’ve encountered have been “Christians.” Whenever I am interviewing contractors to do work in or around my home, if someone starts making a big deal about the fact that they are Christians, I suddenly see big red flags. It’s been my experience that they play the Christian card when the quality of their work cannot stand up to scrutiny. This is not always the case, of course, but it’s happened often enough that I tread carefully when someone starts telling me about their personal relationship with Jesus.
Someone who wears Christianity on his or her sleeve is usually either a saint, a sinner who wants to presume on the charity of others, or a wolf in sheep’s clothing. (Sometimes, it is simply someone who is going through a bit of spiritual exuberance, and nothing more.)

In any event, the saints will prove themselves, and do not mind that others expect to see results instead of some rumor of virtue. The rest will profit from having reasonable boundaries enforced, too.
 
I second what everybody’s said about change orders.

Take the morals out of this and just proceed professionally. “That’s going to take about 5 hours and I will need to be paid my normal rate of $X an hour, plus disposal fees. I’ll write you up a change order and you can sign it.”
 
As other said, either refuse to do the extra tasks or tell customers what you’ll charge to have the work done.

I don’t know where anyone’s religion comes into this. This seems a matter of business practices and communication.
I do notice non religious people push very very hard to get stuff for free. Extra soil, slightly bigger lawn always pushing the edges of the contract where when I meet someone who finds me from my parish every time they ask for the littlest item they say. “How much is that”
 
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