Dealing with protestants

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Hi Cyril, I have known a variety of types of Protestants through and through for 61 years (in the UK though).

I was talking to a dear Protestant friend yesterday and he was saying what he thought would be true Protestantism as per genuine Scriptural principles. Test the spirits, don’t either object or necessarily run off just because you don’t agree 100%. It is not to swallow whole what Protestant church authorities say, even if one is Protestant oneself. They shouldn’t be allowed dictatorship over one’s conscience.

Without saying anything to her or them, pray completely quietly that she - and preferably they too - will come to see this (don’t expect her to make ostentatious admissions about it though). Sometimes people carry on saying something out of habit even when their thoughts have shifted.

Out loud, thank her and them for their prayers for you.

In terms of your attending their assembly, if you have time and energy I’d say why not - unless of course they demand explicit 100% adherence to their views as a condition for your attending.

From what you say of attempted gossiping and manipulating, they don’t sound a very good sort of Protestant to me.

If their “objections” are half-hearted I would say try and ignore them, I know lots of pastors like that but the rest of the congregation are easy with me having a Catholic emphasis to me. (Admittedly I’m single.)
 
I’ve taken out some of the information in your posts and I’d like to address the following:
Hi. I’m a protestant. My wife has taken their side and
doesn’t want to hear me talk about catholicism.
I don’t think it’s a case of taking sides, and it doesn’t benefit you, her or your marriage to think in this way. I think your wife is scared for you, and upset that you’re changing “the rules” of your relationship.
I was thinking maybe I really should engage these people with apologetics. It’s as if I’m being forced into a corner. I really feel I should urge them to read Scott Hahn’s book “Rome Sweet Home” and another one called Crossing The Tiber. I’m currently reading them.

I really feel compelled to counter attack on the subject of sola fide and sola scriptura—such as how Luther TOOK OUT books from Holy Scripture, and how he called James an epistle of straw and wanted to remove the Book Of Revelation and called it not a work of the Holy Spirit. And how Paul urged Timothy to carry on traditions. And how Baptism being merely a symbol is unbiblical but it has saving power and how infant baptism is biblical just as jewish infants were circumcized on the eighth day(They couldn’t decide to enter the mosaic covenent! Does the nullify themselves as being jews? No).
What about their belief concerning contraception?
What do you hope to gain by doing this? As Don Ruggero and Jon S have rightfully pointed out, this is incredibly rude and quite frankly, offensive. If this is the route you take with your wife, I wouldn’t be surprised that she doesn’t want to talk about Catholicism anymore.

All your “counter-attack”'s will do is show you as disrespectful and arrogant, which won’t help your situation at all. If you feel attacked, don’t keep talking to them, and explain (calmly and politely) to your wife that you feel this way.
She no longer wants to obey me in this area and she has reported to our pastors how I am still attending mass and had even asked her to meet with the priest.

At this point, I’m fighting just to enter the gate to get into the Church.
Your wife does not have to obey you, as Jon S has said. From what I can see, your wife is worried for you. Depending on the denomination, she could believe that all Catholics will go to hell and is scared about what your conversion will lead to.

Definitely start going to counselling with your wife. You need an objective party to help you communicate clearly and you need a neutral space to do it in.

Lou
 
ugh…

First of all. I’m not going to attack any clergy. Second, I was being poetic and referring
to verse slinging. I feel like I’m being pressured to give a defence about my beliefs, about
why I still want to convert and why I feel it may be better.

I’m asking if I should give any kind of defence at all at this point, explanation or play the role of an appologist by providing catholic material (Scott Hahn’s book, Rome Sweet Home for example). Or any kind of tracts from Catholic Answers.

I’m not looking to be confrontation or deride anyone of their faith or anything. How do I proceed at this point when my wife complains to the pastors that I’m still attending catholic mass and pursuing the catholic faith. How do I go from here when my wife doesn’t want to now visit the priest or investigate the claims of the church. Should I invite the pastors to investigate the claims of the catholic church just as Scott Hahn had done?
I preferred if my wife just went with me to see the priest and ask her questions, but she brought it up to the pastors who are also counselling us for marriage problems.

So now what do I do? Continue to not defend anything? Say nothing. Provide a tract. Offer Scott Hahn’s book Rome Sweet Home? Should I invite them to join me investigating the claims of the Catholic Church. Should I provide basis and reasons for my convictions other than “Church That Jesus Established” and get into more detail such as baptism, infant baptism, scripture and tradition, and so on? I’m looking for honest advice here, and I’ll be seeing the priest tomorrow morning if I’m able to.

But my wife did say to me again today “If you make the decision with the priest, I’ll divorce you.” I think she doesn’t understand that it takes time to be received into the Church and I’ll need to take RCIA classes first. I told her about the RCIA classes before and how it takes time, but still.

I’m not going to a catholic clergy’s office to convert him; I’m not going to a protestant clergy’s office to convert them.
 
ugh…

First of all. I’m not going to attack any clergy. Second, I was being poetic and referring
to verse slinging. I feel like I’m being pressured to give a defence about my beliefs, about
why I still want to convert and why I feel it may be better.

I’m asking if I should give any kind of defence at all at this point, explanation or play the role of an appologist by providing catholic material (Scott Hahn’s book, Rome Sweet Home for example). Or any kind of tracts from Catholic Answers.
That’s good to hear 🙂

I really think you should stop meeting with these pastors. You aren’t required to defend your beliefs to them and I think it would be a lost cause if you brought them material.
I’m not looking to be confrontation or deride anyone of their faith or anything. How do I proceed at this point when my wife complains to the pastors that I’m still attending catholic mass and pursuing the catholic faith. How do I go from here when my wife doesn’t want to now visit the priest or investigate the claims of the church. Should I invite the pastors to investigate the claims of the catholic church just as Scott Hahn had done?
Be gentle and non confrontational. Don’t debate with the pastors or your wife. Don’t tell your wife to investigate the claims of the Catholic Church, but let her know you’re always willing to talk about it if she chooses. Keep encouraging her to see a Priest with you.
I preferred if my wife just went with me to see the priest and ask her questions, but she brought it up to the pastors who are also counselling us for marriage problems.
That isn’t good. Could you find another counselor, who will be able to be objective? The pastors are going to be biased towards your wife and to their faith, and that really isn’t going to help anything, especially when your beliefs are constantly under attack.
So now what do I do? Continue to not defend anything? Say nothing. Provide a tract. Offer Scott Hahn’s book Rome Sweet Home? Should I invite them to join me investigating the claims of the Catholic Church. Should I provide basis and reasons for my convictions other than “Church That Jesus Established” and get into more detail such as baptism, infant baptism, scripture and tradition, and so on? I’m looking for honest advice here, and I’ll be seeing the priest tomorrow morning if I’m able to.
Actions speak louder that words. Stop engaging with the pastors, and focus your efforts on your marriage and how to work with your wife.
But my wife did say to me again today “If you make the decision with the priest, I’ll divorce you.” I think she doesn’t understand that it takes time to be received into the Church and I’ll need to take RCIA classes first. I told her about the RCIA classes before and how it takes time, but still.
I’m sorry to hear that. I think you should you explain to her how long the process will take, and that you aren’t going to make any split second decisions. Reassure her, but also tell her how she shouldn’t use divorce as a threat because it shakes the foundations of your marriage.

Hopefully, she’ll come to see the Priest with you. I’m sorry if my last post was harsh, I can see how difficult this is for you.

Lou
 
I agree with Millie, We were married for 6 years and my husband would take us to Church and at times even go with us, but when we were having our 3rd baby Baptized, he surprised my by asking Father, “What do I have to do to learn more about the Catholic Faith.?” Fr. asked, “Are you interested?” and he said, “Yes, my wife’s Catholic, my boys are going to be raised Catholic, I want to know more about it” Shortly after, he started instructions and loved what he learned. We had never argued about my faith before but he respected me going to Church, having the kids baptized, teaching them their prayers etc. . Example is IMPORTANT. God Bless, Memaw
 
My way back to the Catholic Church was through two Protestant churches I had been involved with for about 25 years. For personal reasons I decided that staying there was not enough for me. The way I understand the best of Protestantism is a personal relationship with Jesus not necessarily mediated through the Church. They might think that going through the motions, mouthing words of prayers, being Baptized at birth, etc., are not enough evidence of a true commitment.

Martin Luther may have had this in mind but he certainly did not live it. There were other extraordinary people like John Wesley, JS Bach and others whose faith cannot be disputed. I would even say the same with Jews and even Moslems I have known.

I feel however, the need to continue in the tradition that I was luckily born into. It is a great edifice that I never even scratched the surface, maybe even wasting much of my life by going astray. When I left the pastor gave me, rather horrified, a polite review of much of the usual arguments against Catholicism: praying to Mary, their concept of “fellowship” as opposed to the Mass itself, etc. In the first place I had serious doubts about their “speaking in tongues”. I realized as per the Gospel of Pentecost, people in that room understood one another, they didn’t need interpreters.

That said, I am grateful for the amount of Bible that I received there. It’s just that every now and then someone comes out with sola fides et sola scriptura and we know the person who said that cut out the parts he didn’t like. In the end, being what I believe to be a rational person, I could not bide that contradiction.
 
Hi everyone. Wife changed her mind this morning and went with me to see a priest. We met with him for one hour.
 
Hi everyone. Wife changed her mind this morning and went with me to see a priest. We met with him for one hour.
Praise God!

Remember less is more moving forward. Demonstrate your faith for God and your love for your wife instead of smothering her with apologetic arguments.
 
Remember less is more moving forward. Demonstrate your faith for God and your love for your wife instead of smothering her with apologetic arguments.
This! Don’t forget that Kimberly Hahn didn’t even consider conversion until after Scott stopped pressuring her and made it his mission just to let her know he loved her. She may convert, she may not, that’s between her and God.
 
Praise God!

Remember less is more moving forward. Demonstrate your faith for God and your love for your wife instead of smothering her with apologetic arguments.
That’s what he said. Focus on my wife as a priority and to forget about anything catholic for now—but because this is a matter of conscious for me, he said he’d help me along the way and still see me and encouraged me to continue investigating and said for me to attend RCIA classes in August/September.

My wife asked me not to think about anything catholic until at least when RCIA classes start
then. She thought the priest understood her feelings and situation better than I did and thought he was a funny guy, and asked if he was always a funny guy. She laughed along with him at times too when he explained her feelings and situation back to her because he understood her.
 
Thank you for your replies. I’ve gone over them and I do intend to engage them, defend my beliefs and reasons. From now on, I’m going to do my best to keep any counselling between my wife and I with an objective, neutral, third-party counsellor. And I’ll leave it at that. They want to keep praying for me and my wife, so I’ll just thank them for their prayers and leave it at that. If they bring up catholicism again, should I change the subject enirely and refuse to talk about it?

For now, I won’t bring up catholicism or discuss anything with her. I still want to attend mass, which the two pastors said was a disappointing development. My wife might prefer me to stop going for now. I’d like to keep going to mass, but should I postpone attending further Mass until August when RCIA classes start?
 
Thank you for your replies. I’ve gone over them and I do intend to engage them, defend my beliefs and reasons. From now on, I’m going to do my best to keep any counselling between my wife and I with an objective, neutral, third-party counsellor. And I’ll leave it at that. They want to keep praying for me and my wife, so I’ll just thank them for their prayers and leave it at that. If they bring up catholicism again, should I change the subject enirely and refuse to talk about it?

For now, I won’t bring up catholicism or discuss anything with her. I still want to attend mass, which the two pastors said was a disappointing development. My wife might prefer me to stop going for now. I’d like to keep going to mass, but should I postpone attending further Mass until August when RCIA classes start?
Their prayers can do no harm.

Your wife, of course, can seek the counsel of whomever she wishes. That is her prerogative.

My advice to you, on the other hand, would be to disengage from any interaction with them as it does not seem of benefit to anyone at this point; it appears only to be a source of upset and agitation to everyone.

I would not counsel you to stop attending Mass until a later date as that prolongs the suspense. IF you are attending Mass and it becomes more evident to your wife that your interest in Catholicism is not a threat to her or to your marital life, that you impose nothing upon her that alters her practice of her faith…that you attend Mass but it does not disrupt things in the household or the marriage…that may help to ratchet back to some degree the fear and the threat that she seems to be experiencing.

Perhaps she has some irrational fear of what is going to happen. If these poor and deluded people think Catholics worship idols, she may think you are going to cast a spell upon her or otherwise bewitch her.

It is truly unfortunate for all concerned if this is actually a faith community that has not fully entered into the ecumenical movement in which we are blessed to live, here in the 21st century; we are not, after all, in the 16th century with their fears over the salvation of your soul or such myopic thoughts as Catholics worshiping Mary or adoring statues or other ridiculous legends about Catholicism that marked the unenlightened past.

Especially with the post-conciliar liturgy and the Internet, anyone can see and understand instantly – even by looking at their computer in their own home – what is being said and done in the Mass and in our sacramental and extra-liturgical rites. Nothing is said secretly or in an obscure language. It is in the vernacular and said aloud so all may hear and participate.

In any event, you should, however, prefer any advice or counsel given by your own priest since he actually knows you and, I presume, knows this congregation out of which you are coming because of your city/community’s ministerial alliance. This priest’s insights will be the most informed and he is the best placed to offer you sage advice. I hope that meeting went well and resulted in good fruit.
 
Their prayers can do no harm.

Your wife, of course, can seek the counsel of whomever she wishes. That is her prerogative.

My advice to you, on the other hand, would be to disengage from any interaction with them as it does not seem of benefit to anyone at this point; it appears only to be a source of upset and agitation to everyone.

I would not counsel you to stop attending Mass until a later date as that prolongs the suspense. IF you are attending Mass and it becomes more evident to your wife that your interest in Catholicism is not a threat to her or to your marital life, that you impose nothing upon her that alters her practice of her faith…that you attend Mass but it does not disrupt things in the household or the marriage…that may help to ratchet back to some degree the fear and the threat that she seems to be experiencing.

Perhaps she has some irrational fear of what is going to happen. If these poor and deluded people think Catholics worship idols, she may think you are going to cast a spell upon her or otherwise bewitch her.

It is truly unfortunate for all concerned if this is actually a faith community that has not fully entered into the ecumenical movement in which we are blessed to live, here in the 21st century; we are not, after all, in the 16th century with their fears over the salvation of your soul or such myopic thoughts as Catholics worshiping Mary or adoring statues or other ridiculous legends about Catholicism that marked the unenlightened past.

Especially with the post-conciliar liturgy and the Internet, anyone can see and understand instantly – even by looking at their computer in their own home – what is being said and done in the Mass and in our sacramental and extra-liturgical rites. Nothing is said secretly or in an obscure language. It is in the vernacular and said aloud so all may hear and participate.

In any event, you should, however, prefer any advice or counsel given by your own priest since he actually knows you and, I presume, knows this congregation out of which you are coming because of your city/community’s ministerial alliance. This priest’s insights will be the most informed and he is the best placed to offer you sage advice. I hope that meeting went well and resulted in good fruit.
Aye, engaging the pastors further would not be beneficial at the point. I intend to disengage them as much as I can. Disengaging from the community at this point would destabilize things further; So, the priest adviced me to keep attending the service with her for the time being as I focus on loving and prioritizing my wife in my life.

I don’t want to stop going to mass; I have a desire to stop taking communion at the church I currently attend due to growing understanding and convictions about the catholic beliefs concerning the Eucharist. But if I do this, it may destablize things even further.

Don, I appreciate you engaging me in this thread, responding to my posts and reaching out to me. It means a lot.

I do understand their feelings, concerns and fears about my desire to convert to Catholicism.
I know in our day and age, especially with the internet, that such myopic thoughts would not persist—but that is just one side of the coin. With the spread of information, there is also the spread of anti-catholic information. I found such anti-catholic stances to be so compelling that, as the two pastors did tell me, it isn’t what they say but what they do. They see and read and know that catholics say that they don’t worship Mary, saints and statues, but they look at the actions of catholics in such a way that their unsaid and deep-down convictions are solidified into horror and concern for the soul of catholics. I believed that the catholic church has become like Israel that had forsook the ways of the Lord to chase after idols and other sins. The catholic idea of Mary had crept in, starting from perhaps her assumption, which I found was not in the bible, to the position of being equal to God himself, and this veneration over time morphed unknowlingly to the Church into a form of idolatry that was accepted as dogma. Pictures of catholic popes bowing down to statues of Mary and parading statues around reinforced my fears and suspicions. Prayers to Mary were seen as a form of worship, and making images of her was considered a violation of God’s command.
I refused to accept what Catholic’s said as their explanation as a lie and a deceitful appologetic excuse to continue their sinful behaviour. Mary being called the “Co-Reedemtrix” did not sit well with me at all. Mariology was completely repugnant to me and I absolutely abbhored the Orthodox and Catholic doctrines and beliefs concerning it. Protestant books reinforced my suspicion that catholics might be part of the Whore Of Babylon, though out of respect I never accused any catholics of being part of it. I always believed they followed Jesus, but who was I to judge, I thought. I considered it sad and tragic for anyone to be a catholic, and any protestant I knew who converted was a tragedy, I thought. It broke my heart and I wanted to withdraw from such people as they flaunted their love for Mary and icons and saints and so on. It really turned me off and offended me.

Now, I find myself on the other end. I completely understand their concerns and unsaid feelings towards me because I too once thought and felt that way.

I’m currently under the guidance of two different priests(three if I count you as well).
I’m confident that the meeting did bear fruit. I’m just not sure to what extent at this present time.
 
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