Dealing with the Gay family member at Christmas

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Not for one minute do I want to belittle the situation. I realise it must be extremely difficult. I think whenever we visit someone else’s home we should follow their house rules. As a son visiting a parent you are more than just a guest but as far as observing the house rules are concerned the same holds true. As catholics we believe that homosexual sex is gravely sinful. These parents are probably very, very worried about their son’s soul. We all have to face many difficult situations. We deal with them as best we can and often this needs some compromise. I don’t believe this gentleman and his parents should have been apart for seven years. By allowing their son’s partner in to their home is a compromise on the parents part. Let the son compromise by accepting that his parents do not want them to share a room or rather let’s be more specific, the parents don’t want them sharing a bed. Why not invite the parents to his home. Then I think the parents would have to accept his house rules.

I suspect that the parents would not go. It seems that if they won’t allow the son and his partner to stay overnight at their house unless they are in separate rooms, they would be equally as against staying overnight at the son’s house unless the son and his partner agreed to sleep in separate rooms while they were there. Maybe not though, I don’t know.

We welcome our son and his partner when they visit and they are in the same room when they stay overnight. It seems ridiculous to pretend that they are ‘just friends’ or whatever other fiction would be maintained by separate bedrooms. I know most on this forum do not agree.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

Suppose that you and your wife are obese, and your Catholic children invited you to their home for a Christmas dinner, along with several other family members. At the end of the night, after everyone is escorted to their rooms, your child turns to you and says “mom, dad, I believe gluttony is gravely sinful, and as such you’re going to have to find a motel or hotel to stay at for the night”. For arguments sake, leaving gluttony out of it, what if your child said “Listen, mom, dad, I don’t want my kids to be influenced by obesity and feel it’s right to eat a lot and thus gain excess weight, therefore I respectfully ask you to stay away from them, and please find a hotel to sleep at for the night.”

Just curious, what would you say? Would you hug and kiss your child only to say “No problem! Your house, your rules! Love ya, see you next Christmas!”, OR…would you leave the house fuming and angry?

Interesting example.

Here’s what happens in my house: We eat healthy foods, mostly organic. My family of origin eats junk food, and a lot of it. I let them know that there will be no junk food in my house, and that they are not to give junk food to my children. They agree – my house, my rules. They came for a visit at my house and ate our healthy food for several meals. One night they went out to dinner so they could eat food of their choosing rather than the organic healthy stuff I was making. They’re coming to visit after Christmas, and they let me know that they’ll be staying in a nearby hotel. I imagine that a big part of the reason is probably that while staying in the hotel, they can eat more of what they prefer.

This isn’t quite the same as your example, obviously – but it is a real-life situation in which families’ values re: food differ.

As an aside, any issues like this should always be handled in advance, prior to “just going to bed.” If anyone was pulled aside right before bedtime and told to find a hotel room on short notice, that generally wouldn’t go over well. If I waited until my family brought out the first box of Twinkies and confronted them in front of my kids, it’s more likely that there would have been hard feelings. Establishing the ground rules in advance (e.g. no junk food in my house or allowed to be given to my kids) allows everyone time to figure out how they will deal with those ground rules.

 

[Aggie414]

I am struck by the notion that it should be the parents who have to broaden their horizons, for lack of a better word. While my heart breaks for the OP and his family, he has “chosen” – again, lack of a better word – to engage in a lifestyle that they honestly feel is sinful. I’m not going to comment on the right or wrong of that belief for the sake of this argument. But instead of meeting the parents mid way and agreeing to stay in a hotel room for the sake of everyone’s feelings, the decision is made to cut the parents off. Where is the compassion and love on the part of the OP? It doesn’t have to be an all or nothing prospect. Maybe over time the parents would become more open to the relationship the OP has with his partner and be able to have a loving, extended family relationship with the OP; but by demanding to be treated the same as a heterosexual couple overnight is getting you no where in your argument. Tolerance goes both ways!!!

 

[Ethan88]

As an aside, any issues like this should always be handled in advance, prior to “just going to bed.” If anyone was pulled aside right before bedtime and told to find a hotel room on short notice, that generally wouldn’t go over well. If I waited until my family brought out the first box of Twinkies and confronted them in front of my kids, it’s more likely that there would have been hard feelings. Establishing the ground rules in advance (e.g. no junk food in my house or allowed to be given to my kids) allows everyone time to figure out how they will deal with those ground rules.

So you sincerely believe you wouldn’t have a problem if someone refused having their obese parents from being around their children? You really believe that?

Tolerance goes both ways!!!

Would you tolerate the example I presented to AnastasiaRomano, regarding the obese parents?

 

[DasGood]

My wife and I are dealing with a child (22) who has been a professed homosexual for about four years. .

God bless you for all the patience and tolerance you’ve shown your child. I am sure that he will see the light of Christ as you keep up this holy example.

You’ve already made all the right choices and have been a morally righteous parent to your offspring, I couldn’t ask for more in a parent! Just keep sticking to what you feel is right and the Lord will look after you. In terms of advice just keep loving your son and letting him know there are limits to your acceptance.

 

[Aggie414]

So you sincerely believe you wouldn’t have a problem if someone refused having their obese parents from being around their children? You really believe that?

Would you tolerate the example I presented to AnastasiaRomano, regarding the obese parents?

What an absurd analogy. The OP didn’t say that his parents didn’t want his partner around them – they didn’t want them sharing the same room because it was an affront to their religious beliefs. If you would chose not to have your obese parents around your child, then I have to say that I feel very sorry for you. Being overweight is not a sin. It’s a poor lifestyle choice in most instances, but it’s not a sin.

I stand by my statement that tolerance goes both ways – you have to give it to receive it.

 

[Ethan88]

What an absurd analogy. The OP didn’t say that his parents didn’t want his partner around them – they didn’t want them sharing the same room because it was an affront to their religious beliefs. If you would chose not to have your obese parents around your child, then I have to say that I feel very sorry for you. Being overweight is not a sin. It’s a poor lifestyle choice in most instances, but it’s not a sin.

Is gluttony not one of the deadly sins, or are we cafeteria Catholics now? If you’re fat and it isn’t genetic, you are just as much of a sinner as a practicing homosexual, no?

 

[Aggie414]

Is gluttony not one of the deadly sins, or are we cafeteria Catholics now? If you’re fat and it isn’t genetic, you are just as much of a sinner as a practicing homosexual, no?

Equating obesity and homosexuality in this particular discussion is absurd.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Ethan, I think that this perspective, although interesting and touching, is deceptive. When you **chose **to become gay, *you *were the person changing, not your parents. They (from the sound of it) were always against homosexuality, and *you *went against that.

Then you looked for affirmation from them, fully knowing that they would not favor *your *choice.

You say that they “treated you differently.” This is another misconception frequently espoused by the homosexual agenda. *You *changed, they didn’t! Did you expect that your actions would change your parents and force them to accept you?

Their religious beliefs give them an obligation to show and act out their beliefs. Did you think they wanted to look unfavorably at you? Of course not, but you forced them to.

Furthermore, who made the seperation between you and your parents? YOU did. You are the person who has rejected any connection between you and them, even when they have attempted to reconnect with you.

It doesn’t sound like they don’t care about and hate you. It sounds like you are a cruel person who has chosen to torture your parents with the thought that they caused a separation, when really **you **did. Your own cruelty and hate have brought on this terrible situation.

I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but I had to say it in order to make sure your “testimonial” did not confuse other well-meaning people on this thread.

He didn’t choose to become anything.

Ethan,

Each of your short phrases in response to my post are incomplete, so I will not respond to them individually but as a whole.

Same-sex attraction is natural for some people, and I am sorry you are afflicted with it. Homosexual ACTIONS are a choice. That is a fact. If you counter that, you are living an a world of fantasy and there is no reason I can have with you.

Kids who commit suicide because they are gay do so because after a long period of time living in this fantasy, they finally realized it was all fake. They had been living in a fantasy, and it horrifies them. I can only imagine the turmoil in their minds and hearts as they go through this horror.

You completely brushed over my point concerning your parents. You left for seven years. You are the hateful person. They tried and tried again to reconnect, but you rejected them. I don’t think anymore need be said, as it exposes your own hypocrisy.

You continually use emotional language and vindictive accusations to make your points. It is NOT convincing. Your mindset is so set on yourself that you are incapable of seeing another person’s viewpoint.

At this point, I am convinced that there is no way to “resolve” this conversation. You will go on with attack after attack, accusation after accusation, and I care not to respond to every single one after this.

I *will *respond to any point you make that is made with reason. I will not sit here and entertain your emotional enjoyment in causing turmoil with your viewpoints.

If you think that’s why they commit suicide you have no idea what you are talking about.

Equating obesity and homosexuality in this particular discussion is absurd.

Homosexuals get equated with zoophiles, paedophiles and murderers all the time. Do you think that’s fair?

 

[Aggie414]

Homosexuals get equated with zoophiles, paedophiles and murderers all the time. Do you think that’s fair?

You’re seriously going to use that argument in the context of this thread? You can’t stick to topic and offer the OP some constructive advice and thoughts?

 

[Ethan88]

Equating obesity and homosexuality in this particular discussion is absurd.

Why is it absurd? Are you calling God’s word absurd?

Back in the 1900’s, 1 in 150 people were obese, and today…the approximate number of people who are overweight or obese due to a medical condition is less than 1%. This means that over 99% of cases, people who are overweight are gluttonous and sinning.

Fact is, anyone who is overweight and speaks about the ills of homosexuality is a hypocrite. MY MAIN POINT being that if the parents in the OP’s story did the same to their fat son as they did to their gay son these forums would erupt in vitriol toward such parents.

But because they did it to their gay son, the parents are applauded for “standing up for their beliefs.” Whatever happened to “tolerance works both ways”?

 

[Aggie414]

Why is it absurd? Are you calling God’s word absurd?

Back in the 1900’s, 1 in 150 people were obese, and today…the approximate number of people who are overweight or obese due to a medical condition is less than 1%. This means that over 99% of cases, people who are overweight are gluttonous and sinning.

Fact is, anyone who is overweight and speaks about the ills of homosexuality is a hypocrite. MY MAIN POINT being that if the parents in the OP’s story did the same to their fat son as they did to their gay son these forums would erupt in vitriol toward such parents.

But because they did it to their gay son, the parents are applauded for “standing up for their beliefs.” Whatever happened to “tolerance works both ways”?

I’m calling it absurd because it has nothing to do with the topic. The OP was asking about dealing with gay family members at Christmas – not obese family members.

Sin is sin. I agree with you. But I do see a distinction in the severity of the sin – venial versus mortal. But, again, not the topic. By your logic no Catholic can have any opinion or take a stance against anything because there’s always another sin that it can be equated to. That’s false. As Christians, we have a right to ask someone not to conduct themselves in a sinful manner IN OUR HOME which is the topic of this thread.

 

[Ethan88]

I’m calling it absurd because it has nothing to do with the topic. The OP was asking about dealing with gay family members at Christmas – not obese family members.

Sin is sin. I agree with you. But I do see a distinction in the severity of the sin – venial versus mortal. But, again, not the topic. By your logic no Catholic can have any opinion or take a stance against anything because there’s always another sin that it can be equated to. That’s false. As Christians, we have a right to ask someone not to conduct themselves in a sinful manner IN OUR HOME which is the topic of this thread.

It has everything to do with the topic because you’re suggesting that the parents should be applauded for preventing his gay child from sleeping in their home, but refuse to answer if it’s acceptable to do the same thing to a gluttonous child.

If the OP had said “I removed my son from our home because he would have a negative influence on the rest of our children based on his gluttonous overeating”, would you applaud the parent in this situation? The reason you refuse to answer is because you want to pick and choose the sins that offend you, when in God’s eyes, a sin is a sin is a sin.

 

[Aggie414]

It has everything to do with the topic because you’re suggesting that the parents should be applauded for preventing his gay child from sleeping in their home, but refuse to answer if it’s acceptable to do the same thing to a gluttonous child.

If the OP had said “I removed my son from our home because he would have a negative influence on the rest of our children based on his gluttonous overeating”, would you applaud the parent in this situation? The reason you refuse to answer is because you want to pick and choose the sins that offend you, when in God’s eyes, a sin is a sin is a sin.

No. I refuse to comment any further on this particular point because you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion – you’re not going to change yours, and I’m not going to change mine. I’ve stated my point – numerous times. I’m not going to do it again.

 

[Ethan88]

No. I refuse to comment any further on this particular point because you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion

You have a different opinion on sin?

 

[Havard]

As a straight single adult, I would never bring a woman to “sleep over” anywhere, least of all my parents’ place. And if I ever do a complete 180 and try something like that, the current me wouldn’t blame them for not letting me do that under their roof.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I’m calling it absurd because it has nothing to do with the topic. The OP was asking about dealing with gay family members at Christmas – not obese family members.

Sin is sin. I agree with you. But I do see a distinction in the severity of the sin – venial versus mortal. But, again, not the topic. By your logic no Catholic can have any opinion or take a stance against anything because there’s always another sin that it can be equated to. That’s false. As Christians, we have a right to ask someone not to conduct themselves in a sinful manner IN OUR HOME which is the topic of this thread.

Gluttony is a mortal sin.

The couple mentioned in the OP sleeping in the same bed is not inherently sinful.

 

[bejonama]

This is seriously one of the most bizarre conversations I have ever read on this forum. From the poster who condescendingly ‘humors’ her inlaw’s religious beliefs to talk of banning an obese relative from the house for their ‘sin’.

I am also the mother of a same sex attracted son(ssa) who is living the lifestyle. I love him more than I can say and it is because I love him so much that I will never allow him and his partner to share a bed under my roof. Thankfully, unlike another poster in this thread, he respects my views and would never push that on me. He understands, even if he disagrees, that it is out of love that I will always stand firm on that. Even if he didn’t understand and chose to treat me as the previous poster has treated his parents I would still stand firm, because, as a parent, I could never cooperate in something that would further separate my child from God. Choosing to allow a ssa child and his/her partner, or indeed an unmarried heterosexual child and their partner to share a room in my house would be an affirmation of their sinful choices. No matter the age of a child, a parent’s approval always carries weight. I know that myself with my own father. It would be a grave shirking of my duty as a parent to affirm a sinful relationship by allowing the sharing of a bedroom in my home.

This of course doesn’t mean that I treat my child or his friend as lesser, or different in any other way. I apply the same standards on all my children and I hope that they will all respect where I am coming from and, even if they disagree with my way of thinking, take it for what it is. An expression of my love for them.

 

[bejonama]

And just quickly on the ridiculous analogy of an obese relative. The clear difference is that the allowing the sharing of a room, even if not guaranteeing the occurrence of a mortal sin, is very clearly putting the couple in a near occasion of sin, whereas having an obese relative sleepover would do no such thing.

An argument might be made that offering an obese relative a meal might put him/her in a near occasion of sin and therefore you could refuse to feed the fat relative, but that example wouldn’t actually hold up because eating isn’t mortally sinful, even for an obese person. Whereas sex between a same sex or an unmarried Hetero couple is always obectively sinful.

 

[St_Stephen_1]

Suppose that you and your wife are obese, and your Catholic children invited you to their home for a Christmas dinner, along with several other family members. At the end of the night, after everyone is escorted to their rooms, your child turns to you and says “mom, dad, I believe gluttony is gravely sinful, and as such you’re going to have to find a motel or hotel to stay at for the night”. For arguments sake, leaving gluttony out of it, what if your child said “Listen, mom, dad, I don’t want my kids to be influenced by obesity and feel it’s right to eat a lot and thus gain excess weight, therefore I respectfully ask you to stay away from them, and please find a hotel to sleep at for the night.”

Just curious, what would you say? Would you hug and kiss your child only to say “No problem! Your house, your rules! Love ya, see you next Christmas!”, OR…would you leave the house fuming and angry?

I have never said that the situation isn’t difficult. If one of my children asked me to stay away it would depend on the reason. If they thought I was doing something they believed was gravely sinful then I would accept their decision. Hopefully, I don’t behave in a way that’s gravely sinful. If it was for something trivial then I would be upset. I believe these parents are right. They believe that homosexual activity is gravely sinful. They won’t have reached this decision on their own, it’s church teaching. They could say you’re not welcome at all and your partner is unwelcome. This isn’t happening from what I can gather. I don’t understand why the son won’t compromise and say well you let us come and stay, you just want us in separate rooms. I in fact have been in simuilar circumstances. When I was a uni student I shared a house with my girlfriend and we slept together. If we visited my parents we had to sleep in separate rooms. My mother strongly objected to premarital sex. We respected my mother’s wishes. It didn’t cause any great upset. I don’t think there’s any reason why this gentleman should have estranged himself from his parents over this issue. That is very, very sad.