Deals with Saints?

[BrooklynBoy200]

Ok, i was reading a book and someone prays to a saint saying something similar to: “dear saint so and so, if you intercede for me and my request is granted then i will make a pilgramage on foot to your shrine” The person had no intention to make the pilgramage if the request was not granted.

My question is this:

Why would a saint need to make this type of bargain with us? They are already in heaven. We aren’t in any position to bargain with them.

Same with God:

God is God. Why would He need to do this? He will grant the request or not, right?

I may be wrong but it just seems wrong to bargain with beings so much higher then us.

 

[Mordocai]

my mom made a deal with St. Joseph.
she made a few requests, one of which was that my sister would get this job she was applying for, and the other part was that she be converted and return to the Sacraments.
she got the job.
my mom attributed that to St. Joseph.
her side of the deal was that she would honor him by putting a statue of him and the child Jesus outside our house, she plans on getting that soon.
St. Joseph won’t fail her, he doesn’t know how to.
please pray for the conversion of my sister and for her complete healing.
nonetheless, St. Joseph will be honored and in God’s good timing, my sister will return and will be a powerful witness.
the thought occurs to me that satan is very afraid of certain powerful souls who are in his clutches. by this i mean, souls with great potential. at any moment, God could ordain to reveal His love to the person and they’d turn once again to His Heart. but the devil is constantly pushing harder and harder, trying to bury the soul in more and more sin, as if God would then be incapable of lifting the soul out or would have less of a desire to do so.
i rememebr Jesus saying to St. Faustina “The greater the sinner the greater the right he has to my mercy.”

Mercy confounds demons.
it’s the one thing they are powerless against!

Praise God!
St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, stand beside us.

Mordocai

 

[baltobetsy]

I frequently resort to bribery with St. Anthony when I need something found. It escalates as time goes by without finding the item. First, I ask without offering anything. If he doesn’t find it, then I offer three Hail Marys in his honor. If I’m still desperately searching after that, I’ll offer a decade of the Rosary in his honor. That has never failed.

I figure the saints are pleased to increase the glory of God and the Blessed Mother, and also pleased when their devotees increase their own prayer.

Betsy

 

[TOP]

my mom made a deal with St. Joseph.
she made a few requests, one of which was that my sister would get this job she was applying for, and the other part was that she be converted and return to the Sacraments.
she got the job.
my mom attributed that to St. Joseph.
her side of the deal was that she would honor him by putting a statue of him and the child Jesus outside our house, she plans on getting that soon.
St. Joseph won’t fail her, he doesn’t know how to.
please pray for the conversion of my sister and for her complete healing.
nonetheless, St. Joseph will be honored and in God’s good timing, my sister will return and will be a powerful witness.
the thought occurs to me that satan is very afraid of certain powerful souls who are in his clutches. by this i mean, souls with great potential. at any moment, God could ordain to reveal His love to the person and they’d turn once again to His Heart. but the devil is constantly pushing harder and harder, trying to bury the soul in more and more sin, as if God would then be incapable of lifting the soul out or would have less of a desire to do so.
i rememebr Jesus saying to St. Faustina “The greater the sinner the greater the right he has to my mercy.”

Mercy confounds demons.
it’s the one thing they are powerless against!

Praise God!
St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, stand beside us.

Mordocai

This brought tears to my eyes, Thanks, Tim

 

[Della]

BrooklynBoy200:

The person had no intention to make the pilgramage if the request was not granted.

This statement jumped out at me. Why would you assume this? Do you actually know someone with this attitude?

Also, God is not as hard on people’s motivations as we sometimes are. Oftentimes people will pray in ways that aren’t the most admirable, but it is up to God to judge such prayers and what they are worth, yes?

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

This statement jumped out at me. Why would you assume this? Do you actually know someone with this attitude?

Also, God is not as hard on people’s motivations as we sometimes are. Oftentimes people will pray in ways that aren’t the most admirable, but it is up to God to judge such prayers and what they are worth, yes?

It was a fictional book i was reading, but the person in the book was a very devout catholic and for the most part the book accurately portrayed the rest of her beliefs. It took place in like the middle ages though. But it turned out that the person had to flee her home and ended up making the pilgramage anyway because she was running from people. It said that she couldn’t believe she was doing it when the saint hadn’t fulfilled his part of the bargain. I don’t know, she was praying someone wouldn’t die, but he died anyway.

 

[LilyM]

This statement jumped out at me. Why would you assume this? Do you actually know someone with this attitude?

Also, God is not as hard on people’s motivations as we sometimes are. Oftentimes people will pray in ways that aren’t the most admirable, but it is up to God to judge such prayers and what they are worth, yes?

The point is God grants our prayers based on whether or not what we request is a) in accordance with his will for us or for others and b) whether it’s something beneficial for us or another.

Bargaining doesn’t change either of these two factors, but neither, I think, does it lessen the likelihood of getting what we pray for.

 

[FiremanFrank]

I may be wrong but it just seems wrong to bargain with beings so much higher then us.

Well, actually B/B … you are wrong.

GO TO THE BIBLE

IT’S IN THERE!

And here it is:

Genesis 18:20-33
Then the Lord said,
“**Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, **I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry which has come to me; and if not, I will know.”

So the men turned from there, and went toward Sodom; but Abraham still stood before the Lord.

Then Abraham drew near, and said, "Wilt thou indeed destroy the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; wilt thou then destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it … ?

**And the Lord said, **
"If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake."

Abraham answered, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking? Wilt thou destroy the whole city for lack of five?”

**And he said, **
"I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there."

Again he spoke to him, and said, “Suppose forty are found there.”

**He answered, **
"For the sake of forty I will not do it."

Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there.”

**He answered, **
"I will not do it, if I find thirty there."

He said, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.”

**He answered, **
"For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it."

Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.”

**He answered, **
"For the sake of ten I will not destroy it."

And the Lord went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.

Now if that’s not bargaining b/b, nothing is!

 

[littleone]

I remember in the Bible in at least two places the mother of a boy said to God “If you give me a child I will offer him to you”. The women did become prignant and they offered their boy child back to God when the time came. I think one was the mother of Danial.

God bless
little one

 

[wcknight]

It seems that some saints like the recognition or appreciate getting their reputation enhanced by helping to grant favors.

All power of course comes from God, but He apparently listens more to some saints than others.

Of course not all prayers are answered in the exact manner that we like when we like. Maybe better bribes are more effective than others.

 

[LilyM]

I remember in the Bible in at least two places the mother of a boy said to God “If you give me a child I will offer him to you”. The women did become prignant and they offered their boy child back to God when the time came. I think one was the mother of Danial.

God bless
little one

It was the mothers of Samuel and Samson.

And there are other instances of bargaining too - after the Israelites worshipped the Golden Calf God wants to destroy them, but Moses pleads for them and they are spared.

 

[Mintaka]

The thing is, people are weird.

Some people manifest sincerity of intention or sheer desperation by offering a bargain, or some kind of transaction, and then following through on said agreement. And really, that’s not wrong, per se. God clearly calls us to a two-way relationship, even though He doesn’t need anything from us. It’s somehow good for us to offer Him stuff. Offering Him stuff as proof, or in trade… well, it’s wacky but it’s not bad.

Now, if you were under the mistaken impression that you could fool or buy God and the saints, that would be wrong.

Offering to go on pilgrimage or give candles and suchlike – that was a powerful part of popular piety back in the Middle Ages. I think that since society back then was built on trust – on keeping agreements and oaths between people – this was a more powerful and personal metaphor for them than for us. But it’s not forgotten; you see the ghosts of it in certain modern practices.