DEAR AMERICA: Here's Why Everyone Thinks You Have A Problem With Guns

[Monte_RCMS]

Plenty of crazies and criminals are far more educated about guns, understand them better and are more comfortable with them than you - it certainly doesn’t mean they should have them.

Why should anyone be comfortable with something the primary purpose of which is to injure and kill? Reminds me of Siegfried and Roy being comfortable with their tigers … until one of them mauled Roy onstage and nearly killed him.

[do you understand the difference between owning something and playing with it? versus using it?]

A tiger has a mind of its own. They are interesting [when kept in preserves and caged enclosures]. But if you play with a full grown tiger, it might eat you.

A ladder or a kiddee wading pool is harmless. They are useful. But if you play with it/them, you could fall and die or drown.

Peanuts are harmless. They are useful. But if you play with them, you could choke to death or get an allergic reaction [which none of my friends ever got, by the way, as we all grew up on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches].

Liquor is harmless, being merely a form of alcohol … a liquid with a -OH radical on the end. It is useful and enjoyable. But if you play with it, you could get dizzy and fall or cause damage to yourself if you operate machinery.

A gun is a device that expels projectiles. They are useful for self-defense. Or even for target shooting. But if you play with them, you could put your eye out. [By the way, my friends had shooting clubs when they were in high school; they used to bring their guns to school using buses and subways; no one ever had a problem.]

If you personally are uncomfortable with tigers, ladders, kiddee wading pools, peanuts, alcohol, or guns, then don’t buy them.

But don’t require the rest of us to have to follow your fear-based restrictions and reporting requirements.

Why do we need to report to the government for buying a ladder, a kiddee wading pool, a peanut, alcohol or a gun?

If you leave a ladder or a kiddee wading pool, a peanut, alcohol or a gun alone, it won’t do anything.

[A tiger has a mind of its own and you are merely lunch; however, a ladder, a kiddee wading pool, a peanut, alcohol, or a gun will just sit there for a thousand years if left alone.]

 

[Monte_RCMS]

It’s not about reason - it is about letting loose with your bodily functions (probably fairly easy when you are in a scary situation) and making your attacker so physically repulsed and disgusted that they lose the will to proceed.

Like aversion therapy for smokers or drinkers, if you will.

And our societies make blanket rules about what constitutes proper self-defence all the time. That’s why it is illegal for certain people to own guns, because they cannot be trusted to use them in only a properly self-defensive way. That’s also why there are prohibitions and restrictions on all sorts of other kinds of weapons too.

You are kidding me, right?

If you release your sphincter muscle, then your attacker will flee?

You gotta be kidding me.

Aversion therapy for smokers or drinkers … like having to listen to Mayor Bloomberg rant on and on?

OR, is smoking marijuana ok, but smoking tobacco not ok?

Drinking a cocktail is ok, but drinking soda is not ok?

If anyone is personally put off by the sight of a gun, then they should not buy a gun … but then they should not be making rules for other people either.

Some guns look downright scary.

On the other hand, some women have spray painted AR-15’s pink and they look really nice.

I have friends who are REALLY put off by automobiles; refuse to have anything to do with cars … but the thing is … they want to make rules about cars for other people. And they don’t know anything … although they do like going for rides when other people do the driving … and they are really great about giving instructions and non-stop commentary to the person doing the actual driving.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

“In Catholic thought, social justice is not merely a secular or humanitarian matter. Social justice is a reflection of God’s essential respect and concern for each person and an effort to protect the essential human freedom necessary for each person to achieve his or her destiny as a child of God.” U.S. Bishops. To Do the Work of Justice (1978) 8.

“The social order and its development must constantly yield to the good of the person, since the order of things must be subordinate to the order of persons and not the other way around, as the Lord suggested when he said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.” Vatican II, Church in the Modern World (1965) 26.
In “Economic Justice For All” “The economy exist for the person, not the person for the economy.” In other words, Catholic church does not teach what you indicated to, instead the person is the one that has the value. I believe it was Nietzsche was more the society is more important and actually that is the same thought process that got Hitler in trouble. If a few had to suffer for the good of the community then so be it, was his view point. Hitler was a great follower of Nietzsche.

I just don’t agree that everything speaks of ‘self.’ Where was the good of the persons at Sandy Hook? The social order wasn’t subordinate to the order of persons in that instance.

 

[kuppermom]

I just don’t agree that everything speaks of ‘self.’ Where was the good of the persons at Sandy Hook? The social order wasn’t subordinate to the order of persons in that instance.

Oh of course not,(as Christians) we must look out for our fellow man. I’m just telling you that individual man comes first then the good of the society according to the Catholic church. You have to be able to see the wisdom of this. Every person is valuable to God. Hitler lost sight of this and decided to rationalize that it was okay two kill off certain people, because, in his eyes, it was for the good of the society. It was okay for him to kill mental handicap children, because it was the good of the society(because he thought they had nothing to offer and then the parents to have more children that were handicap that could be productive in a society).

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Oh of course not,(as Christians) we must look out for our fellow man. I’m just telling you that individual man comes first then the good of the society according to the Catholic church. You have to be able to see the wisdom of this. Every person is valuable to God. Hitler lost sight of this and decided to rationalize that it was okay two kill off certain people, because, in his eyes, it was for the good of the society. It was okay for him to kill mental handicap children, because it was the good of the society(because he thought they had nothing to offer and then the parents to have more children that were handicap that could be productive in a society).

The Church teaches a dignity of life for all, from conception until natural death. The Catholic Church has a very long history of martyrs. I don’t know of where the Church teaches ‘self’ above others. Hitler is a good example of ‘self’ before others.

As you use Church, what about the bishops who have spoken out for gun controls? Can you please provide me one bishop who has spoken out for gun rights, placing each individual above the good of society?

 

[kuppermom]

I just don’t agree that everything speaks of ‘self.’ Where was the good of the persons at Sandy Hook? The social order wasn’t subordinate to the order of persons in that instance.

It was a terrible terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to those people, I can’t imagine loosing a child. I’m sure every parent would wish to exchange what happened to those tiny children to happen to them instead, so they wouldn’t have to experience that horror. But you keep refusing to see the core of our problem. If he hadn’t been able to get guns, he would have used a bomb, if bombs were illegal, a knife, a hammer…does this make hammers evil, or is the man evil. Guns a purely a tool, a thing, not evil. So many people use them every day as a tool, carefully and never think of harming innocent children. We have a sin problem, we have a loss of God problem. We are lashing out and looking for reasons or ways to control bad people. So some people start thinking well maybe everyone that owns a gun is bad…guns are bad… we need to get rid of them. My husband is a teacher, my children are getting to the age of going to school, but I still strongly think that what makes America great is the freedom to be armed…the key word there being freedom…I will not give up my freedoms for someones misunderstood sense of being safe.

 

[kuppermom]

The Church teaches a dignity of life for all, from conception until natural death. The Catholic Church has a very long history of martyrs. I don’t know of where the Church teaches ‘self’ above others. Hitler is a good example of ‘self’ before others.

As you use Church, what about the bishops who have spoken out for gun controls? Can you please provide me one bishop who has spoken out for gun rights, placing each individual above the good of society?

I don’t know how much more I can prove to you that the church teaches individualism is before society, you’ll just have to go talk to a priest about that.
As for the bishops, they are always going to disagree on certain aspects. I don’t know a bishop off hand, but I know priests that know this is a bad path to start on.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It was a terrible terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to those people, I can’t imagine loosing a child. I’m sure every parent would wish to exchange what happened to those tiny children to happen to them instead, so they wouldn’t have to experience that horror. But you keep refusing to see the core of our problem. If he hadn’t been able to get guns, he would have used a bomb, if bombs were illegal, a knife, a hammer…does this make hammers evil, or is the man evil. Guns a purely a tool, a thing, not evil. So many people use them every day as a tool, carefully and never think of harming innocent children. We have a sin problem, we have a loss of God problem. We are lashing out and looking for reasons or ways to control bad people. So some people start thinking well maybe everyone that owns a gun is bad…guns are bad… we need to get rid of them. My husband is a teacher, my children are getting to the age of going to school, but I still strongly think that what makes America great is the freedom to be armed…the key word there being freedom…I will not give up my freedoms for someones misunderstood sense of being safe.

and the question that I continue to ask - Why do the people writing these laws think that criminals will EVER obey the law?? It is a mental state, a soul state, that causes people to feel that THEY are above or outside of the laws that the rest of us follow. You see it in a minor way when people who know the regulations, let their dog off-leash in a public area, or park in an area they know is forbidden. It is a sin, but we justify such as “I need to,” etc. or “My dogs are different.” We all struggle with sin but the true criminals do not have a struggle, they just do what they feel they need to do, and that includes taking other people’s property and sometimes, their lives.

The criminal mind will NOT obey laws, no matter how rational they seem to be to those of us who follow laws. I will say that since the men and women who write these laws are in many ways exempted from them, they can be considered criminals as well.

 

[R1ch4rd]

Why should anyone be comfortable with something the primary purpose of which is to injure and kill? Reminds me of Siegfried and Roy being comfortable with their tigers … until one of them mauled Roy onstage and nearly killed him.

This “primary purpose” argument gets old. Tell me the primary purpose of the fist club or the first sword or the first spear…or the pressure cooker. Don’t try to pass your feelings to others. My parish priest would shake his head at your statement…while cleaning his beautifully engraved, gold inlayed Browning Citori Featherweight.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I don’t know how much more I can prove to you that the church teaches individualism is before society, you’ll just have to go talk to a priest about that.
As for the bishops, they are always going to disagree on certain aspects. I don’t know a bishop off hand, but I know priests that know this is a bad path to start on.

Go to the Bible and quote me some scriptures where Christ taught ‘individualism’ before the common good of our fellow man.

From the USCCB website:

The teaching authority of the Catholic Church, called the Magisterium, lies with all of the bishops who are led by the pope and guided by the Holy Spirit. The pope and bishops are the authoritative teachers in the Church. In this section of our Web site, you can find information about many forms of Catholic teaching.

On the issue of gun control, there is not a single bishop that has spoken disagreement.

 

[kuppermom]

Go to the Bible and quote me some scriptures where Christ taught ‘individualism’ before the common good of our fellow man.

From the USCCB website:

On the issue of gun control, there is not a single bishop that has spoken disagreement.

Go to your priest and talk to him about it I all ready gave you the bible verse above. And about the bishops, I guess I’m going to have to right some letters and make inquires, if what you say is true.

 

[TimothyH]

Bah!

Guns don’t kill people!

Pressure Cookers kill people!

We need to demand background checks on Assault Pressure Cookers!

Nuff said.

When fourty million people in the US walk around with pressure cookers we will ask that those too be taken off the street.

-Tim-

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Go to your priest and talk to him about it I all ready gave you the bible verse above. And about the bishops, I guess I’m going to have to right some letters and make inquires, if what you say is true.

And my priest is answerable to?..his bishop.

The teaching authority of the Catholic Church, called the Magisterium, lies with all of the bishops who are led by the pope and guided by the Holy Spirit. The pope and bishops are the authoritative teachers in the Church. In this section of our Web site, you can find information about many forms of Catholic teaching.

We are Catholic. If we don’t like what a bishop says, we cannot run find a clergy that agrees with us. There is an authoritative hierarchy.

I have searched and searched. I cannot find a single bishop to speak out against gun controls. What I have found is statements on the bishops website, speaking for support of gun controls.

 

[kuppermom]

When fourty million people in the US walk around with pressure cookers we will ask that those too be taken off the street.

-Tim-

Does it also bother you that everyone I know owns a pocket knife? They could totally just freak out and suddenly stab you. Shudder…I guess we’re going to have to ban those too. Sorry that was maybe a little strong. The problem is two different view points, part of us see it as a persons problem and part of us see it as a gun problem. Part of us are willing to give up an essential freedom that helps hold fast all of our other freedoms and some of are not. Why can’t you guys look at the facts, look at Texas and the look at Chicago. I, personally, would much rather live in Texas.

 

[R1ch4rd]

On the issue of gun control, there is not a single bishop that has spoken disagreement.

The Bishops were VERY specific as to who not vote for during our last presidential election. I still have the pamphlet from the Diocese stating uncategorically that a vote for Obama would be a mortal sin. If the Bishops feel strongly about gun control, why is it we don’t hear it on the parish level? Perhaps it’s their opinion because if it were church teaching, shouldn’t we be instructed on it???

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The Bishops were VERY specific as to who not vote for during our last presidential election. I still have the pamphlet from the Diocese stating uncategorically that a vote for Obama would be a mortal sin. If the Bishops feel strongly about gun control, why is it we don’t hear it on the parish level? Perhaps it’s their opinion because if it were church teaching, shouldn’t we be instructed on it???

Because some Catholics committed a wrong then, we can now ignore the bishop’s guidance on other issues? Let’s not politicize the guidance from the bishops.

 

[kuppermom]

And my priest is answerable to?..his bishop.

We are Catholic. If we don’t like what a bishop says, we cannot run find a clergy that agrees with us. There is an authoritative hierarchy.

I have searched and searched. I cannot find a single bishop to speak out against gun controls. What I have found is statements on the bishops website, speaking for support of gun controls.

I feel like you’re misunderstanding me again. You need to go talk to your priest about individualism vs. society. It concerns me that you don’t know this.
And just because you see silence, doesn’t mean you find agreement. It just means the church isn’t taking a actually stand and they are going to let us duke it out. Now that doesn’t mean that a couple aren’t going to voice there opinions(but that’s all they are)

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

In their memory and for the sake of our nation, we reiterate our call made in 2000, in our statement, Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice, for all Americans, especially legislators, to:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

As we long for the arrival of the Prince of Peace in this Advent and Christmas season, we call on all people of goodwill to help bring about a culture of life and peace.

USCCB MISSION

1. Mission Relationships (Cf. Apostolos suos, no. 15.)

• With the Holy See

• With bishops and dioceses

• With episcopal conferences

• With national catholic organizations and associations of the christian faithful

• With civil authorities and other groups

1. Through Conference Committees and Staff

In carrying out their respective mandates, committees and work groups strive to respond to the mission of the Conference as a total body.

Not a single bishop has spoken disagreement…

 

[kuppermom]

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

USCCB MISSION

Not a single bishop has spoken disagreement…

I’ll have to talk to my priest and get back to you about that one.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I feel like you’re misunderstanding me again. You need to go talk to your priest about individualism vs. society. It concerns me that you don’t know this.
And just because you see silence, doesn’t mean you find agreement. It just means the church isn’t taking a actually stand and they are going to let us duke it out. Now that doesn’t mean that a couple aren’t going to voice there opinions(but that’s all they are)

I’m not misunderstanding you on individualism vs. the common good. I believe you are not interpreting the teaching correctly. We have a right, and an instinct, to self preservation, but we must decrease, so that He may increase. To do that for Him, we do for the least of His. What was His response to those that wanted to follow Him? Sell all that you have, give to the poor, and come follow me. No individualism, above others, taught.

Joh 15:13 Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

But you can take silence and say, ‘here is opposing?’ No. If the bishops disagreed, or felt something was wrongly expressed, they have an obligation of clarification for the masses to understand as to not be misled.

See my previous post, from the USCCB website. There are 454 active, and retired, bishops in the US. Not one speaks out in strict favor of gun rights, as it being expressed by laypersons on these threads.