Dear Catholic Hymnal: Music Not Written in the '60s Is Still Good

[clem456]

True, that everyone has valid preferences in music. Everyone has emotions that are triggered by different personal tastes. Everyone’s conversion experience is valuable because it is Christ that calls. We cannot judge the validity of another person’s faith journey.
Guitar, organ, piano, voice, all these are gifts from God.
All that being said, not every culture and not every musical expression are objectively “the same”. There is a difference between equality and sameness. Musical expression should be evaluated within the underlying cultural context it exists in because cultures are not all the same.
A good example of this can be seen in the marriage debate. Every human being has equal dignity and rights before God and the law. But not all expressions of marriage are the same. There are objective differences.

So I will limit my observations to my own parish. I suspect what I observe is true in others as well, and I admit that not all parishioners are immersed in a culture in lockstep fashion. But the overall thrust of our parish culture, where I live, is thus:
We are encouraging indifference to the Catholic faith. The faith should be non-threatening, accepting as the same (not just tolerant of)… all other beliefs.
All Catholics are “the same”, whether bishop, priest, or laity. I an not talking about a perspective that simply holds the equal dignity of all persons in the eyes of God, but an indifferent “sameness”.
A misguided sense of individualism. The Church proclaims that Christ is the head of the Church and we are his body. In our parish this has become… “we are the Church”… and that has become “I am the Church. My experiences and my expressions are the Church.”
That perspective rejects the foundation we are built upon, it sees only it’s own current perspective. Thus we have music that rejects anything but it’s current self. It is different for it’s own sake, not to acknowledge that Christ has guided his Church continually. The here and now is all that matters, shaped by individual experience and expression.

In my parish, our music expresses this culture.
Much of it is experience oriented rather than God-centered.
It is intentionally indifferent to Catholicism, expressing a bland, disconnected, and individualistic service culture.
It is contrived, because…what else is there but change? “We must change because we must”. Rhythms and melodies are hard to get ahold of, lest they express something timeless, intuitive, and rooted in our nature, something that draws us outside of our own experience.

It is not true that the Church has accepted any old expression of culture over the centuries and made it it’s own. The whole point of evangelism is for the Church to leaven the culture it lives in. Culture should thrive according to it’s degree of adherence to Christ, not the other way around. Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[ProVobis]

I can tell you the reasons I find them difficult.

1. They are not known and people do not sing what they do not know.
2. They change too much. ( for this reason I also do not use unfamiliar hymns)
3. They are too short for most uses. One or two lines gets the priest maybe to the altar.

If they don’t teach it, they will probably never know. They might have tried this in many parishes, they couldn’t get people to sing (nothing new there), and they gave up and went back to random selections of Haas and Haugen. But did this really reflect the spirit of that particular day? “All are Welcome” is nice but…

BTW, the format of entrance antiphon follows that of the older Mass. It is sung once, then the Gloria Patri, then it is repeated. Should fit nicely into the opening procession. At least the people should know the Gloria Patri.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I am reminded sometimes of people in my community who are of Latino descent, and whose parents did not teach them Spanish and who have become out of touch with their Latino culture and heritage because A. their parents, when they were children, were discouraged from speaking their native tongue and celebrating/practicing things specific to their heritage, and B. a general acceptance of and assimilation into so-called “American” culture. I have heard many of them lament that the youth are losing touch with their hispanic heritage and they have to work very hard to keep the traditions, language, etc. going so that they can know who they are and where they came from. In the same way, when I look at Catholicism, I see a 2000 year history of beautiful art, music and culture that is rife with historical and theological significance but so few Catholic people get to see this. When I see people stripping out the statues, chucking out the chant, and replacing it with new, modernized innovations, it feels as if we are expected to be ashamed of our Catholic heritage and culture and to forsake it in order to adopt the more acceptable, modern style, culture and theology of our time.

 

[christus_vincit]

If they don’t teach it, they will probably never know. They might have tried this in many parishes, they couldn’t get people to sing (nothing new there), and they gave up and went back to random selections of Haas and Haugen. But did this really reflect the spirit of that particular day? “All are Welcome” is nice but…

BTW, the format of entrance antiphon follows that of the older Mass. It is sung once, then the Gloria Patri, then it is repeated. Should fit nicely into the opening procession. At least the people should know the Gloria Patri.

Well said. If we don’t teach this stuff anymore of course no one will know how to sing it! So many people in here are falling into the mindset of “well, this is how it is now and there’s little we can do to change it”.

 

[christus_vincit]

When I see people stripping out the statues, chucking out the chant, and replacing it with new, modernized innovations, it feels as if we are expected to be ashamed of our Catholic heritage and culture and to forsake it in order to adopt the more acceptable, modern style, culture and theology of our time.

Yes. Indeed, that seems to be the case. Hopefully more Catholics will try to reverse this trend rather than attempt to find reasons to justify it! Centuries worth of beauty and culture thrown away at the whims of one decade! It is such a shame. As a young Catholic, I can’t help but feel deprived.

As I have stated in many of my previous posts (and as others have also said), I believe that as more and more solid seminarians are being ordained to the priesthood, the Church will naturally gravitate back to its roots. The beauty and sublimity of the Mass of old was not an accident - it was a reflection of heavenly beauty. Beauty that cannot be replaced by rock music and priests dressed like clowns even if such things draw larger crowds.

 

[Weejee]

I think compared to Protestants, Catholics spend a whole lot less on music though,

SOUNDS IT!

with fewer staff and paid musicians. I think this is fine. After all, the source and summit of the Catholic faith is the Holy Eucharist. As Protestants lack this, worship music is of greater importance.

We should honor the Eucharistic Celebration with better hymns. We should just use the great old Watts. Wesley hymns, plus some chant, and explore some new ones. To keep repeating the same old (bleeeep!) written in the 60’s and 70’s isn’t being very nice to the Lord.

Especially as the newer hymns are more centered around God.

 

[Cat]

Well said. If we don’t teach this stuff anymore of course no one will know how to sing it! So many people in here are falling into the mindset of “well, this is how it is now and there’s little we can do to change it”.

Remain practical, not esoteric.

Who will teach it?

What are their qualifications to teach liturgical music?

When will they teach it? (Time of day and which days/evening of the week)

What age groups will they teach?

How much will they be paid?

 

[pnewton]

I guess I don’t understand all this talk of how parishes are “different” .

Off hand:

Size
Culture/Bakcground of parishoners
Language
Age of parishoners
Blue collar/white collar
Available funds
Available musicians
Number of converts/reverts/cradle Catholics
Rural/urban/suburban
Number of immigrants

This is what I thought of in just two minutes

If Cat had a pastor that all of a sudden wanted chant and the propers, I bet she would find a way to make that work.

I have no doubt she would, or let the priest find someone more capable. The better question is why would the opinion of anonymous people on this forum be a factor. The priest is actually in charge.

 

[ProVobis]

Who will teach it?

I would say the same people who teach the Mass now.

Surely the liturgical committees have discussed such matters in the past. It’s all in the missalette, you know. And if it’s not there, the Vatican has provided free copies of Jubilate Deo to all parishes.

Or did they just toss them?

 

[pnewton]

Fourth, what is all this about clown masses?! Where did this come from in this conversation?! We aren’t talking about clown masses here! .

LOL! The “Nazi/Hitler” topic of liturgy. Sooner or latter, clowns always turn up.

 

[pnewton]

We should honor the Eucharistic Celebration with better hymns. We should just use the great old Watts. Wesley hymns, plus some chant, and explore some new ones.

Throw in Fanny Crosby and you have a deal, although with her music, you have to watch the theology.

If we are to discuss personal preference, you hit upon mine. I was raised in weaned on the great Protestant hymns. My favorite Catholic music I have learned have been the same genre. My wife has been a jewel to fill me in on what hymns I missed being Protestant. I have introduced her to her new favorites, like “It Is Well With My Soul” and “Be Thou My Vision.”

Now if the Catholic hymnal companies would cough up the money to include these, they could drop some of the lesser quality staff songs.

 

[Cat]

I would say the same people who teach the Mass now.

Surely the liturgical committees have discussed such matters in the past. It’s all in the missalette, you know. And if it’s not there, the Vatican has provided free copies of Jubilate Deo to all parishes.

Or did they just toss them?

Our hymnal has Jubilate Deo, along with several other Mass settings.

ProVobis, the people who teach the Mass now aren’t necessarily musicians.

People who teach Jubilate Deo or any of the antiphons have to be able to play an instrument or sing well enough to teach the people the “melody” of each part.

And they have to be able to teach the people to sing in the proper voice, not just in their “campfire” voice. That would sound dreadful.

Perhaps some people are so committed to singing Latin/chant in the Mass that they will sing it any way that it can be sung, including in horrible voices through the nose, or in the chest, or even in a monotone, with lots of pop “slides” and the Latin can be mispronounced and full of diphthongs and chopped off vowels–yucko!

I would not stand for that.

Just as country music should not be sung in “opera voice,” and jump rope chants should not be chanted in head voice, and rap should not be done with an Elizabethan accent, so liturgical chant, Gregorian or otherwise, should not be done incorrectly. Yuck, ick.

If it is, then everyone will cringe, and eventually enough people will protest that it will be eliminated from the Mass and you’ll be back to Haugen and Haas forever, and the suggestion to do “chant” in the Mass will be met with rolled eyes and stifled gags and outright hostility.

So back to my question–who will do the teaching?

And Mamas and Daddies, how many of you are getting your children into music lessons (organ and piano), and planning to encourage them strongly to major in music in college, (not very many scholarships available for that) and then after four years earning a B.A., accept a job offer at a parish as “Music Director” with a salary of $12,000/year? Better start re-modeling your basement into a cute little apartment now!

 

[ProVobis]

Our hymnal has Jubilate Deo, along with several other Mass settings.

ProVobis, the people who teach the Mass now aren’t necessarily musicians.

People who teach Jubilate Deo or any of the antiphons have to be able to play an instrument or sing well enough to teach the people the “melody” of each part.

And they have to be able to teach the people to sing in the proper voice, not just in their “campfire” voice. That would sound dreadful.

It doesn’t have to be all that complicated. For example, one can use the gentle melody of the Asperges Me for a lot of Introits and Entrance Antiphons.

youtube.com/watch?v=MvFjvCn_Ka4

By the way, I use the standard notation on the organ. It’s in the St. Basil’s Hymnal.

 

[27lw]

Off hand:

Size
Culture/Bakcground of parishoners
Language
Age of parishoners
Blue collar/white collar
Available funds
Available musicians
Number of converts/reverts/cradle Catholics
Rural/urban/suburban
Number of immigrants

This is what I thought of in just two minutes
I have no doubt she would, or let the priest find someone more capable. The better question is why would the opinion of anonymous people on this forum be a factor. The priest is actually in charge.

Help me understand! I’m serious - - how does rural setting -vs- urban change the music? Would one get H & H, one get… something else?
Number of converts reverts / cradle Catholics (per Mass? how would you predict this, and how is the music different for converts / reverts / cradle Catholics?)
Age of parishioners - - is there not a mix at every parish? If you have more young people, what would you specifically give them for music? If you have the 70+ crowd, do you give them H & H for sure?

 

[pnewton]

Help me understand! I’m serious - - how does rural setting -vs- urban change the music? Would one get H & H, one get… something else?
Number of converts reverts / cradle Catholics (per Mass? how would you predict this, and how is the music different for converts / reverts / cradle Catholics?)
Age of parishioners - - is there not a mix at every parish? If you have more young people, what would you specifically give them for music? If you have the 70+ crowd, do you give them H & H for sure?

I do not know what H & H means.

You asked for differences. I gave a bunch. I do not wish to debate on this topic. It is sufficient that the Catholic Church understands the need for decisions to be made locally and have a priest and a boatload of parishioners I am answerable to.

 

[pnewton]

Our hymnal has Jubilate Deo, along with several other Mass settings.

ProVobis, the people who teach the Mass now aren’t necessarily musicians.

People who teach Jubilate Deo or any of the antiphons have to be able to play an instrument or sing well enough to teach the people the “melody” of each part.

We have been using this in English and Latin during Lent for the last three years. It is still a work in progress, and this is one of the easiest chants.

 

[27lw]

I do not know what H & H means.

You asked for differences. I gave a bunch. I do not wish to debate on this topic. It is sufficient that the Catholic Church understands the need for decisions to be made locally and have a priest and a boatload of parishioners I am answerable to.

Sorry - - I think other people have used H & H to mean “Haugen and Haas”.
Sorry if I put you on the spot - - I genuinely don’t understand the questions that I posted. I really hoped you would clarify.
Thanks anyway!

 

[pnewton]

Sorry - - I think other people have used H & H to mean “Haugen and Haas”.

Thanks. As I said earlier, staff musicians do tend to overuse one or two composers. I like a few songs these have written, like Haugen’s My Soul in Stillness Waits for Advent.

 

[christus_vincit]

Our hymnal has Jubilate Deo, along with several other Mass settings.

ProVobis, the people who teach the Mass now aren’t necessarily musicians.

People who teach Jubilate Deo or any of the antiphons have to be able to play an instrument or sing well enough to teach the people the “melody” of each part.

And they have to be able to teach the people to sing in the proper voice, not just in their “campfire” voice. That would sound dreadful.

Perhaps some people are so committed to singing Latin/chant in the Mass that they will sing it any way that it can be sung, including in horrible voices through the nose, or in the chest, or even in a monotone, with lots of pop “slides” and the Latin can be mispronounced and full of diphthongs and chopped off vowels–yucko!

I would not stand for that.

Just as country music should not be sung in “opera voice,” and jump rope chants should not be chanted in head voice, and rap should not be done with an Elizabethan accent, so liturgical chant, Gregorian or otherwise, should not be done incorrectly. Yuck, ick.

If it is, then everyone will cringe, and eventually enough people will protest that it will be eliminated from the Mass and you’ll be back to Haugen and Haas forever, and the suggestion to do “chant” in the Mass will be met with rolled eyes and stifled gags and outright hostility.

So back to my question–who will do the teaching?

And Mamas and Daddies, how many of you are getting your children into music lessons (organ and piano), and planning to encourage them strongly to major in music in college, (not very many scholarships available for that) and then after four years earning a B.A., accept a job offer at a parish as “Music Director” with a salary of $12,000/year? Better start re-modeling your basement into a cute little apartment now!

You’re right, parish music directors make very little money. But look at the state of the music! No wonder! There is no demand for music directors now because the music is so average. We don’t need scholas because they don’t serve a purpose in the liturgy anymore. But what if they did? The demand would skyrocket. People would be interested in learning and teaching music again because it would be necessary and important! This is not a matter of musical knowledge as much as it is a matter of the liturgy shifting back to its traditional roots. Its an “if you build it they will come” type situation.

 

[jeannetherese]

One of the parishes that I frequent offers an O.F. Mass in English. The priest there chants during much of the Mass.
This is a way to begin to reintroduce chant to those who lack familiarity.
The pianist/organists who play at my and at my parents’ local churches are not doing this as a means of survival. they receive a stipend, but to some extent are also donating their time and talent as others donate their treasure.There has been a tradition of donating labor to God, whether it is in helping clean the church and maintain the grounds, providing accompaniment to those who sing, or serving food to the poor ar volunteering for Saint Vincent de Paul.
Rather than emphasizing competing with professional Protestant salaries, it might be more in keeping with our tradition of service to continue emphasizing catechesis with the understanding that as people are strengthened in in faith more may be called to serve.
This is not meant as a critique of those earning salaries playing at church. A bachelors degree in music is not necessary to be able to play the music played at my local church. Nor was it necessary forty years ago. We’re not lacking in pianists capable of playing the current music or the traditional hymns and the piano continues to be a popular instrument among those who sign their children up for music lessons.
Sometimes, I think that we make these issues much more complicated than they need to be.