Dear Muslim friends

[WarriorAngel]

Did you ever notice that…
The Bible was written by a variety of authors sent by God and written by man’s hands? This is how God prooved the source - of His writings.

Did you also notice that the same truths passed onwards were all maintained in the single line that God hand choose and established a line of priests within that group?

Yes He expanded to gentiles [who were prophecied to fill the Church til the end of time] - but His Apostles were Jews.

Did you notice He used priests since the OT all the way back to Melchizedek? And again in the Church.

Anyway - did you notice all of God’s history for mankind was maintained in ONE book…called now - the Bible?

The reason Muhammad had to create the Quran and he did create it] is because he would never never have been accepted in the Catholic Church which was the line of choosen men by Jesus to carry on HIS ministry.
BUT also - not only would they have never allowed his ideas,** but in fact - everything he taught contradicted Jesus**.

Sorry - but you have neither history nor scriptures, nor Jesus to proove the quran or the hadiths of muhammad as a genuine prophet.

In fact - knowing he couldnt get by in the Catholic Church with his ideas, he pursued men who didnt know the Bible.

Hence how he gained followers. But reading the hadiths - not one person ever witnessed an actual miracle.

How come when Muhammad came - God had to change everything He taught on earth?
And Jesus said by our works they would know we follow Him.

By the works of the quran - we know it directly contradicts Jesus.

Also - if you think the Bible was interpolated. I present to you the CATACOMBS.
They are burials from the 1st century Christians of the Church and their testimonies proove the same teachings existed then as now and the Bible has not changed.

 

[inJESUS]

How come when Muhammad came - God had to change everything He taught on earth?

good question since God proved His words by sending prophet after prophet after prophet, all of them continuing the message, step by step, like a puzzle, and finally Jesus fulfilling, yet all this history of thousands of years came to end "because of corrupt people who thwart the plans of God) and Allah has to send someone totally alien to scriptures, without any witness because corrupt scriptures cannot testify to a prophet and humanity is suddenly asked to believe in him because he says so despite thousands of years of scriptures and tradition.

Bro, when you talk to some Muslims, you must forget about Biblical theology, history , archeology and sometimes logic. Islam would not exist except by ruining that which was before it.

 

[ronyodish]

good question since God proved His words by sending prophet after prophet after prophet, all of them continuing the message, step by step, like a puzzle, and finally Jesus fulfilling, yet all this history of thousands of years came to end "because of corrupt people who thwart the plans of God) and Allah has to send someone totally alien to scriptures, without any witness because corrupt scriptures cannot testify to a prophet and humanity is suddenly asked to believe in him because he says so despite thousands of years of scriptures and tradition.

Bro, when you talk to some Muslims, you must forget about Biblical theology, history , archeology and sometimes logic. Islam would not exist except by ruining that which was before it.

Good point

God bless,

Rony

 

[rikkk1958]

I am with both of you brothers in Christ. When I asked Sister Amy why she admire Islam, she responded by saying “because of the beauty there is in the quran”. We know it is an overstatement because we also know that the quran is not the word of God.

If we consider the quran as teachings based on the Bible, it is still not consistent and full of errors. You know, in my own opinion, I can sense the intervention of the devil in the quran because there is deception consistent to devil’s work. I learned this from reading it as a whole and by my own analysis, it shows a pattern of deception. Do you think there is? The main deceptive characteristic is the cold blooded description of command to slaughter the Jews and the Christians, and then it praises God in the end.

You will also find Muhammed’s recorded life and sayings in the Hadith which are pure absurdity. It is just the opposite of the virtues of human life. When muslims are confronted with facts, there responses is monotonous “no compulsion in religion”.

 

[ronyodish]

When I asked Sister Amy why she admire Islam, she responded by saying “because of the beauty there is in the quran”.

She should read the writings of St. Ephrem, which is poetic beauty at its best!
The Qur’an is nothing compared to the Syriac Fathers when it comes to beautiful poetic theology and spirituality



God bless,

Rony

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… This is how God prooved the source - of His writings.

so many unknown writers are there ; how do u know they were inspired by God when u don’t even know their names ?

related link:

Bible Curses Church Fathers Who REMOVED Book of Revelations

“Let anyone who takes away from this book or adds to this book be cursed”…The Book of Revelation was taken out of the Bible several times and then replaced and then taken out and replaced according to various Church Councils throughout Church history.

Guess the Church Fathers didn’t read the curse at the end of the book?

Bible Compared to Quran

Based on transcripts of vairous lectures given by Yusuf Estes & Dr. Gary Miller

islamtomorrow.com/articles/Bible_vs_Quran.asp

The reason Muhammad had to create the Quran and he did create it] is because he would never never have been accepted in the Catholic Church

No offense but why u think the Catholic Church was so important to him or others except the Catholics ?

People offered him everything in exchange of stop preaching of oneness of God . They sent his Uncle to him with this proposal & his reply was :

O my uncle, if they placed the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to cause me to renounce my task, verily I would not desist therefrom until Allah made manifest His cause or I perished in the attempt."

He refused to be the the most powerful , most rich person of his time in his land ; instead he taught people not to worship him but Him alone.

… nor Jesus to proove the quran or the hadiths of muhammad as a genuine prophet

Looks like End time is almost near. If we are lucky enough to see the second coming of Jesus (p) , u will see he is preaching Islam

he pursued men who didnt know the Bible

some Rabbis & Priests accepted Islam in his time & later. They recognised him as the Last Prophet (p) mentioned in Torah & Injeel / bible.

How come when Muhammad came - God had to change everything He taught on earth?

teaching of all Prophets (pbut) is same : God is greater than all . To believe that Jesus (p) is God , it’s against all the previous teachings . Read OT & NT , no prophet ever taught it before.

And Finally : **To you be your Way, and to me mine. **

holy Quran ; chapter 109 ; verse 6

 

[WarriorAngel]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

so many unknown writers are there ; how do u know they were inspired by God when u don’t even know their names ?

Actually all their names are known. 40 authors in scriptures…and written in periods that transcend one another.

BUT that is not the only thing - these prophets all gave an exacting account of the Christ to come and how His life would unfold and how He would die.

• Please note that some were slaughtered…and or tried to refuse prophecying.
  The task given them was not to find honor - for prophets never found honor…nor did Jesus Himself.

Anyway - 300 prophecies were given - [maybe 3 more that deals with the end time] but those same 300 prophecies were all recorded throughout 4000 years. All of them by different prophets…and all of them pointing to The One. [Jesus]

Following me?

Jesus fulfilled those 300.
AND Not by either accident nor deliberately did He fulfill them because the majority of the prophecies described His death [which was witnessed by thousands] and He could have neither accidentally fulfilled His death in the manner He did, nor could He have deliberately done so.

And He could not accidentally nor deliberately fulfill that of His birth either. He could have no more deliberately tried to fulfill the prophecies at birth than He could have at His death.

What prophecies is something you should be pondering AND how He was the ONLY One Who could fulfill them. [Now not one peep in the whole Bible about Muhammad??]
Surely if Muhammad was even a glimmer of what Jesus was - he would have had as many prophecies
If not more - if he was to be so great.

Also Muhammad took honor, he gleaned honor, he demanded honors.
But every single prophet prior to Jesus - did not have honor. They were often reviled in their times. AND not a single prophet has a following and their own religion.
Jesus does - but He wasn’t a prophet per say. He was called The Prophet. Capital P - meaning He ended the line of prophecy and fulfilled all that was spoken before Him and about Him.

And we could go thru the prophecies if you should like.

Would that help you comprehend the significance of Who Christ is?

Due to the length of my writings. [And i have long ago learned to shorten them ]- but because of the nature of this discussion and the vast history - its difficult to put it into a few sentences - but its important that you understand what the scriptures really are.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Bible Curses Church Fathers Who REMOVED Book of Revelations

“Let anyone who takes away from this book or adds to this book be cursed”…The Book of Revelation was taken out of the Bible several times and then replaced and then taken out and replaced according to various Church Councils throughout Church history.

Well, let me explain this [and this task isnt simple when speaking to someone who just doesnt comprehend most of this]

Anyway - lets review how scriptures was ‘put in place’.
Basically the Church had the Old scrolls [all of them] and they carried and contained the Epistles and Gospels of the Apostles.

A council [as also seen in the Acts] was later put together to decide which book would be relevent to be read in each Church - and which book was genuine.

This didn’t take mere minutes, this took a very long process. In fact I think two councils addressed this issue.

NOW - follow me please - the whole world knows the scriptures we have today and that they are INSPIRED and must be held to through those councils. It is through men that the Holy Spirit guides them to know which was genuine and inspired.

Remember - [if you know this] their were also gnostic writings floating around as well. It was thru the Bishops who knew which writings were genuine [again via the Holy Spirit] who finally decided which would be **used **for THEIR PURPOSE in the Churches to teach and for reproof.

You cannot proove the Church is wrong against itself.
You cannot say the Church who declared what is public revelation wrong for what is deemed public revelation.

And as i said - it took years and alot of discussion to finalize the books the Church choose to INCLUDE into their canon.

*Please NOTE - Removing the book from their canon is NOT the same as REMOVING text from the book.

Do you see that difference?
Its important that you understand that.

Guess the Church Fathers didn’t read the curse at the end of the book?

Read my red highlighted text above…so you understand the difference of what you think it means and what it really means.

Bible Compared to Quran

Based on transcripts of vairous lectures given by Yusuf Estes & Dr. Gary Miller

islamtomorrow.com/articles/Bible_vs_Quran.asp

Sorry, I do not read critiques by mere men who were not ordained by the Lord’s line of choosen men.

No offense but why u think the Catholic Church was so important to him or others except the Catholics ?

Everyone is important to Him.
But not everyone seeks His truth.

Fortunately He already laid out a ministry that didnt need to wait 600 years for someone to come along with new ideas.

Isn’t truth important?

People offered him everything in exchange of stop preaching of oneness of God . They sent his Uncle to him with this proposal & his reply was :

O my uncle, if they placed the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to cause me to renounce my task, verily I would not desist therefrom until Allah made manifest His cause or I perished in the attempt."

He refused to be the the most powerful , most rich person of his time in his land ; instead he taught people not to worship him but Him alone.

His actions superceded his words.

He took the power he found and sought out Aisha. He told them Allah gave him a dream to marry a child.

Now knowing what Jesus said - should have been utmost proof right there…

Matthew 18
6 But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Scandalize would be to cause a child to have carnal knowledge.

After reading the hadiths of Muhammad - he not only taught a young child carnal knowledge through having her clean his sheets after having another wife…but he also had carnal relations with her at age 9.

NOW - not even in the time of early deaths did anyone ever marry a 9 year old.
I read that the youngest a woman married due to early deaths - was age 12. [the youngest and ONLY because she could menstrate and reached puberty]

Muhammad scandalized a child. He taught her carnal things.
Thus he acted against the demands Jesus made in this regard.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Looks like End time is almost near. If we are lucky enough to see the second coming of Jesus (p) , u will see he is preaching Islam

Why would Jesus preach anti Christian theology?.
You do realise Christian means to be a follower of Christ. [Who is Jesus] And solely and only Jesus.

Muhammad contradicted everything Jesus taught.
I could show you a list if you require it.
Or even find a list online that shows the polar differences.
Your call.

some Rabbis & Priests accepted Islam in his time & later. They recognised him as the Last Prophet (p) mentioned in Torah & Injeel / bible.

And Jesus was not fooled that that would happen.

You speak of end times, and interestingly add that priests have left to go to Islam.

Well here is my response and I will use Christ’s words [Christ = Jesus]

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.

Priests are His elect.
So of course He already foresaw this occurring.

This is not good news, in fact it is sad to know anyone would follow a prophet Jesus prophecied.

teaching of all Prophets (pbut) is same : God is greater than all . To believe that Jesus (p) is God , it’s against all the previous teachings . Read OT & NT , no prophet ever taught it before.

And Finally : **To you be your Way, and to me mine. **

holy Quran ; chapter 109 ; verse 6

O but in fact the prophet Isaias **did indeed **state for a fact Jesus was God.

Isaias 9
6 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor,** God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince** of Peace.
7 His empire shall be multiplied, and there shall be no end of peace: he shall sit upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom; to establish it and strengthen it with judgment and with justice, from henceforth and for ever: the zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

And yes, Jesus came from the lineage [genealogy] of David.
[Yet another prophecy of His birth]

 

[Eucharisted]

The Christian Catacombs of Rome: catacombe.roma.it

 

[WarriorAngel]

The Christian Catacombs of Rome: catacombe.roma.it

Great link. Thanks.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

…Muhammad scandalized a child.

Mom of your God is considered as a child under today’s men made law. You are lucky , your Lord was born thousands & thousands years ago . Otherwise , both the baby Lord & his mom had to face a lot of troubles .

 

[doughnut]

hmmm did i read from another thread that the accepted age to marry for the jews was around 12 or 13?

so assuming that would be her age upon the conception of jesus. however, she was a virgin…(although i dont think her age was mentioned?)

and aisha on the other hand (as once again i gathered from all previous threads) consummated the marriage at 9. (i hardly think that is a comparison)

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Mom of your God is considered as a child under today’s men made law. You are lucky , your Lord was born thousands & thousands years ago . Otherwise , both the baby Lord & his mom had to face a lot of troubles .

 

[swariffin]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Mom of your God is considered as a child under today’s men made law. You are lucky , your Lord was born thousands & thousands years ago . Otherwise , both the baby Lord & his mom had to face a lot of troubles .

Muhammad was also lucky to be born and live in the land of Arab in year 600AD. Had he was born in the US in the 20th - 21st century, he would have been jailed for marrying a 9 years old child.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

**In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful
**

Salaam/ Peace

… Had he was born in the US in the 20th - 21st century, he would have been jailed for marrying a 9 years old child.

with the earthy father of your God , with God’s another son David (p) , the wise man ever Solomon (p) & Prophets Abraham (p) & Moses (p) ?

 

[WarriorAngel]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Mom of your God is considered as a child under today’s men made law. You are lucky , your Lord was born thousands & thousands years ago . Otherwise , both the baby Lord & his mom had to face a lot of troubles .

No Mary actually was not considered a child. She had to leave the Temple soon because she had become enveloped in puberty. At which case - menses was not allowed in the Temple. Women had to avoid going to the Temple during that time. So the priests had to ‘marry her off’ as was the custom, and as was the maturity of her body.
Some historical accounts put her anywhere from 12 to 15. I do believe 15 is the actual age.
**Neverhtless **- she still was not a small child of 6 or 9.

An undeveloped child without any maturity and should not know carnal things at that age…such as Aisha.
But Aisha was also enslaved to clean up after his other wives…also scandalising her and causing her to think of things at age 6 - 7- -8 that she had no business knowing.

In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace

with the earthy father of your God , with God’s another son David (p) , the wise man ever Solomon (p) & Prophets Abraham (p) & Moses (p) ?

Ok, so here we are with the prophecies and how very clever the Lord is.

Joseph came from the tribe that would NOT conceive the child.

So this did two things - for one thing this ensured that satan would not know Jesus in His youth before His ministry and it would also lead satan to convince them to crucify Him…
AND it would conceal Him from those who would otherwise know scriptures.

Since they considered Him to be the son of Joseph, they would concieve He was another false Christ and therefore crucify Him so He could fulfill all the prophecies to His death.

AND if you read the Gospels - you will see that they [Apostles] give both lines of geneology.
Luke gives the line on Mary’s side [which can conceive] and Matthew gives the line of Joseph [both from David] who will not conceive because they were cursed from God that they could not.

However; Jesus was never conceived by man - hence the virgin birth. She conceived her Son via God and God alone. Joseph was not the father. He was only to protector and guardian of both mother and child. It would have been pretty easy to spot she was the Mother of the Lord - had she been a single mother who was still a virgin. And could have been prooven a virgin - then it would have been very easy to see - and then the scriptures could NOT be fulfilled and Him crucified.

NOW - the most interesting aspect is that in Genesis 3:15 - the prophecy to both Jesus and Mary is thus:

Genesis 3:
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

The beauty is - as Luke wrote in the Gospel her lineage - is because it thru her [line] seed - that Jesus would come to save mankind. And both she and He would have enmity from the serpent…which means a complete seperation - complete severed enemies. Which means - the serpent has no control over either and he cannot corrupt them.

Sinless - is what it means. Because they are completely seperated from evil.

Now put this altogether and see how clever the Lord is.
He died for our sins and at the very hands of satan who never wanted it to occur.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Did you ever notice that…
The Bible was written by a variety of authors sent by God and written by man’s hands? This is how God prooved the source - of His writings.

Did you also notice that the same truths passed onwards were all maintained in the single line that God hand choose and established a line of priests within that group?

Yes He expanded to gentiles [who were prophecied to fill the Church til the end of time] - but His Apostles were Jews.

Did you notice He used priests since the OT all the way back to Melchizedek? And again in the Church.

Anyway - did you notice all of God’s history for mankind was maintained in ONE book…called now - the Bible?

The reason Muhammad had to create the Quran and he did create it] is because he would never never have been accepted in the Catholic Church which was the line of choosen men by Jesus to carry on HIS ministry.
BUT also - not only would they have never allowed his ideas,** but in fact - everything he taught contradicted Jesus**.

Sorry - but you have neither history nor scriptures, nor Jesus to proove the quran or the hadiths of muhammad as a genuine prophet.

In fact - knowing he couldnt get by in the Catholic Church with his ideas, he pursued men who didnt know the Bible.

Hence how he gained followers. But reading the hadiths - not one person ever witnessed an actual miracle.

How come when Muhammad came - God had to change everything He taught on earth?
And Jesus said by our works they would know we follow Him.

By the works of the quran - we know it directly contradicts Jesus.

Also - if you think the Bible was interpolated. I present to you the CATACOMBS.
They are burials from the 1st century Christians of the Church and their testimonies proove the same teachings existed then as now and the Bible has not changed.

I’m not sure we are friends but I will respond anyway.

My view about God’s Scriptures is that they should be written by God, and not by countless of anonymous human beings over centuries. But that they should be written by God.

Otherwise, how can anyone claim they are God’s Scriptures, God’s Words?

For that reason it seems to me that the Bible is very weak in its authenticity, while the Qur’an is very strong, as we know it to be a transmission from God, to the Angel Gabriel, to the Prophet Muhammad, to mankind, and since then perfectly preserved.

 

[rikkk1958]

I’m not sure we are friends but I will respond anyway.

My view about God’s Scriptures is that they should be written by God, and not by countless of anonymous human beings over centuries. But that they should be written by God.

Otherwise, how can anyone claim they are God’s Scriptures, God’s Words?

For that reason it seems to me that the Bible is very weak in its authenticity, while the Qur’an is very strong, as we know it to be a transmission from God, to the Angel Gabriel, to the Prophet Muhammad, to mankind, and since then perfectly preserved.

No compulsion on religion!!

 

[WarriorAngel]

I’m not sure we are friends but I will respond anyway.

My view about God’s Scriptures is that they should be written by God, and not by countless of anonymous human beings over centuries. But that they should be written by God.

I also had God write something - and I am holding it in my hands.
I found it in the woods next door.

Do you believe me?

You will say you do not because Muhammad was the final prophet…correct?

But how can he be the final prophet when Jesus said false prophets would come and show great signs and wonders and mislead even His own choosen men.

So you are basing your entire system of life on a man who contradicted the entire teachings of Jesus and henceforth the whole of all scriptures
.
AND you are going to believe that said person when he says it came down from God.

However; Mormons claim the same thing happen via their prophet who said quite the opposite of Muhammad.

Therefore anyone can claim they received something written by God - and they can make all sorts of claims they want - it only takes a few to make it seem like they are telling the truth.
BUT where are the fruits? Where are the historical prophecies?
Where are the witnessed miracles?
What miracles occurred for the good of man and the glory of God?

YET - the Bible - the entire Old Testament started being recorded when Moses wrote what was handed down to man via the Lord ‘dictating it to him’ which so happens to correspond to the different historical accounts in archeology. Even nations of pagans wrote similar things about what occurred as the Bible tells.

Muhammad cannot proove one way or another where his writings came from. But its best to be a critical thinker and look at history of the Bible and compare it.

300 prophecies leading to Christ through out all of human history.
None for Muhammad.

Logically then the only prophecy written in the duration of the scriptures would be what Jesus said about false prophets.

Otherwise, how can anyone claim they are God’s Scriptures, God’s Words?

For that reason it seems to me that the Bible is very weak in its authenticity, while the Qur’an is very strong, as we know it to be a transmission from God, to the Angel Gabriel, to the Prophet Muhammad, to mankind, and since then perfectly preserved.

That’s why aside from the many miracles performed in front of thousands - and converted at His resurrection - did He leave men to write what was done.

The greatest teachers never wrote - ever.

Prophets had disciples write for them… **which is why God never did such a menial task. **
Aside from the Ten Commandments.
Which came like lightening bolts from the sky and caused an entire nation to tremble.

Did the entire nation tremble when God wrote the koran?

And - if you read scriptures - you would find God promising that he would NEVER speak to humanity again…[below is the passage]
Unless of course He becomes flesh in the form of man as the Messiah - which is indeed prophecied…[etc]

[sign]
Deuteronomy 18
*16 As thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the assembly was gathered together, and saidst: Let me not hear any more the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see any more this exceeding great fire, lest I die. 17 And the Lord said to me: They have spoken all things well. 18 I will raise them up a prophet out of the midst of their brethren like to thee: and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 And he that will not hear his words, which he shall speak in my name, I will be the revenger. 20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain. *
[/sign]

 

[WarriorAngel]

Adding, God came to flesh and taught for 3 years His Apostles.

But Muhammad understood it all from an Angel handing it to him - in what - minutes?

I am sure Muhammad was so great that he didnt need a teacher and he understood all of it right away?

Hmm, me thinks he created and wrote it, indeed me thinks he did.

Never did he hesitate to comprehend the koran - but the Apostles didnt understand Jesus until they received the Holy Spirit [as witnessed in the room and…] people saw them come out speaking TO THEM in every single language of every single person present DURING the exact same sentence.

That was miraculous, and the account of 3000 were baptized that day - due to the miracle.

Did they themselves take credit for understanding?

No - for Jesus promised the Advocate [Holy Spirit] and that the Holy Spirit would remain with them to teach them and remind them.

I find it truly amazing how Muhammad never having a single teacher grasped the koran, without a promise of the Holy Spirit and to top it all off - even today the great scholars of Islam still dont understand it 100% - But Muhammad did?

So if he received the Holy Spirit - then surely he would have aligned himself to Jesus’ teachings. [which he hasnt]

But if it was not the Holy Spirit who is God also - then what made him so sure of what the koran meant?

Seriously. These are logical questions.