Dear Muslims...

[Camron]

Could you please provide a link to a complete online list of the Biblical passages from the Old and New Testament, including which Biblical passages **were not tampered with **and which Biblical passages were tampered with (based on the studies of respectable Muslim Biblical scholars).

I ask this because it appears to me that many Muslims quote the Bible when it agrees with their doctrine and misquote the Bible when it doesn’t agree with their doctrine. In short, it seems to me that they can speak from both sides of their mouth at leisure without having to commit to anything definitive regarding what the Bible actually claims about Jesus.

As such, I would like a list of what is accepted and what is not accepted if possible. This way one cannot retract a statement if indeed one claims that a Biblical passage is not corrupted but then is later found to be corrupted because it does not fit in with Muslim theology.

Note: Even a partial list would be helpful. :coffeeread:

 

[paarsurrey]

Could you please provide a link to a complete online list of the Biblical passages from the Old and New Testament, including which Biblical passages **were not tampered with **and which Biblical passages were tampered with

Hi

You can prepare a list yourself with an unbiased study of Quran and comparing it with the teachings in the OTBible and the NTBible. Then you could discuss.
For studying Quran I suggest the following online translation:
www3.alislam.org/index.jsp
For knowing a little history of Muhammad, you may if you like to download the following:
alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

There is no harm in making a little research; that is good for understandign one another’s point of wiew so essential for the peace of the world.

Thanks

 

[tomshaikh]

Hi

You can prepare a list yourself with an unbiased study of Quran and comparing it with the teachings in the OTBible and the NTBible. Then you could discuss.
For studying Quran I suggest the following online translation:
www3.alislam.org/index.jsp
For knowing a little history of Muhammad, you may if you like to download the following:
alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

There is no harm in making a little research; that is good for understandign one another’s point of wiew so essential for the peace of the world.

Thanks

Who are Ahmadi Muslims? Please explain and describe your Ahmadi Muslim Religion. Thank You. As a Senior Member you need to answer me. And clear Did Sunni Muslims who are in majority confirm you that you are Muslims. Who do you believe in after Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Explain and Do not hide?

 

[Sam_777]

paarsurrey;3678179:

I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

Who are Ahmadi Muslims? Please explain and describe your Ahmadi Muslim Religion. Thank You. As a Senior Member you need to answer me. And clear Did Sunni Muslims who are in majority confirm you that you are Muslims. Who do you believe in after Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Explain and Do not hide?

These two Hadiths say Muhammad said my people will split into 73 sects, all of them in hell except one.
(A1) (A2).

 

[tomshaikh]

These two Hadiths say Muhammad said my people will split into 73 sects, all of them in hell except one.
(A1) (A2).

Yeah you are right I heard your saying also. Sorry but I donot understand Arabic. Is presently there are 73 sects exist or it is talking about those 73 sects which will going to be during judgement day. I am worried about this too. Which was that one? But Ahmadi Muslims are totally different and out of Islam. Where as others are so far so good. Right now there are only two sects Sunni and Shia. And I believe on both.

 

[Sam_777]

Could you please provide a link to a complete online list of the Biblical passages from the Old and New Testament, including which Biblical passages **were not tampered with **and which Biblical passages were tampered with (based on the studies of respectable Muslim Biblical scholars).

Well, according to my Muslims clerics here in Saudi Arabia, both the Gospel & the Torah are corrupted, there is nothing called tampered passages or non-tampered passages, they make their statement based on these verses from Quran & Hadith:

(Quran 5:13):
“But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them - barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461:
" Narrated Ubaidullah:
Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah’s Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, ‘It is from Allah,’ to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"

 

[Camron]

Hi

You can prepare a list yourself with an unbiased study of Quran and comparing it with the teachings in the OTBible and the NTBible. Then you could discuss.
For studying Quran I suggest the following online translation:
www3.alislam.org/index.jsp
For knowing a little history of Muhammad, you may if you like to download the following:
alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

There is no harm in making a little research; that is good for understandign one another’s point of wiew so essential for the peace of the world.

Thanks

I was hoping that Muslim apologists would have already done this, since this seems to be a key point in their claim against the Bible.

Again, I’m not expecting a complete list anymore. Even a partial list would be a great place to start.

Are you saying that no Islamic scholars have even prepared a partial answer to these kinds of questions?

 

[Camron]

Well, according to my Muslims clerics here in Saudi Arabia, both the Gospel & the Torah are corrupted, there is nothing called tampered passages or non-tampered passages, they make their statement based on these verses from Quran & Hadith:

(Quran 5:13):
“But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them - barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461:
" Narrated Ubaidullah:
Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah’s Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, ‘It is from Allah,’ to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"

Is there a short list of what is considered corrupted and what is considered not corrupted?

 

[Delta2]

For all my experience discussing with them in here :

imanway.com/en

They normally uses this logic :

• does a verse on the bible contradicts the QuRan ?

Yes: then it is considered fabrication
No: It is accepted

A list of the verses that muslims normally use to attack the bible and Christianity :

answering-islam.org/BibleCom/index.html

(Matthew 15,14)
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

 

[hamba2han]

Is there a short list of what is considered corrupted and what is considered not corrupted?

Muslims do NOT need a shortlist of corrupted Biblical verses because we have been given something which is very much better i.e. a ‘Criterion’ by which to judge scriptural accuracy and authenticity.

And the Qur’an actually introduces itself as Furqan which means ‘the criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehood’ and Sura 25 is named Al-Furqan.

Blessed is He Who hath revealed unto His slave the Criterion (of right and wrong), that he may be a warner to the peoples. … (Al-Qur’an, 25:1)

In short, anything found in other scriptures which contradicts the Qur’an is therefore considered to have been corrupted.

 

[ralphinal]

Jesus said to call God “Father” or, more specifically, “Abba” which means “Daddy.” Is this in the Koran?

Jesus said to love those who hate you, and pray for those who despise you, and forgive those who injure you. Is this in the Koran?

Jesus says that if you want to folow him, first deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow him. Is this in the Koran?

Jesus says that those who are nerciful will be shown mercy. Is this in the Koran?

Finally, Jesus says that we are no longer slaves, but friends. Is this in the Koran?

 

[Booklover]

Jesus said to call God “Father” or, more specifically, “Abba” which means “Daddy.” Is this in the Koran?

Jesus said to love those who hate you, and pray for those who despise you, and forgive those who injure you. Is this in the Koran?

Jesus says that if you want to folow him, first deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow him. Is this in the Koran?

Jesus says that those who are nerciful will be shown mercy. Is this in the Koran?

Finally, Jesus says that we are no longer slaves, but friends. Is this in the Koran?

Oh, please, don’t bring up the verse about taking up our cross, cause Hamba will post a picture of a crossbow!

Vickie

 

[ralphinal]

Oh, please, don’t bring up the verse about taking up our cross, cause Hamba will post a picture of a crossbow!

Vickie

And i will put up the plus sign…

That was a fun thread. IT jumped all over the place, but it was fun.

 

[paarsurrey]

Who are Ahmadi Muslims? Please explain and describe your Ahmadi Muslim Religion. Thank You. As a Senior Member you need to answer me. And clear Did Sunni Muslims who are in majority confirm you that you are Muslims. Who do you believe in after Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Explain and Do not hide?

Hi

Haven’t you seen my signatures? I don’t have to hide.
Where does Quran mention that only Sunnis are Muslim and Shias are not? Anybody who believes in Kalima; both of its parts , is a Muslim. It is not necessary that one should be in majority. The truth is in absolute terms, it is neither majority nor minority.

I think one should be humble and charitable.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

I was hoping that Muslim apologists would have already done this, since this seems to be a key point in their claim against the Bible.

Again, I’m not expecting a complete list anymore. Even a partial list would be a great place to start.

Are you saying that no Islamic scholars have even prepared a partial answer to these kinds of questions?

Hi

There is no sanctity for a scholar in Islam; they could go to hell or heaven if they are wrong or right accordingly. Quran is the judge and leader not the scholars necessarily.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Muslims do NOT need a shortlist of corrupted Biblical verses because we have been given something which is very much better i.e. a ‘Criterion’ by which to judge scriptural accuracy and authenticity.

And the Qur’an actually introduces itself as Furqan which means ‘the criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehood’ and Sura 25 is named Al-Furqan.

Blessed is He Who hath revealed unto His slave the Criterion (of right and wrong), that he may be a warner to the peoples. … (Al-Qur’an, 25:1)

In short, anything found in other scriptures which contradicts the Qur’an is therefore considered to have been corrupted.

Hi

I agree with you in this connection.

Thanks and regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus said to call God “Father” or, more specifically, “Abba” which means “Daddy.” Is this in the Koran?

Jesus said to love those who hate you, and pray for those who despise you, and forgive those who injure you. Is this in the Koran?

Jesus says that if you want to folow him, first deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow him. Is this in the Koran?

Jesus says that those who are nerciful will be shown mercy. Is this in the Koran?

Finally, Jesus says that we are no longer slaves, but friends. Is this in the Koran?

Hi

I think it is a misconception of the anonymous scribes. The CreatorProvide GodAllah was mentioned as father or Abba metaphorically. Quran has cleared this concept. I mention here two short chapter from Quran to elucidate the point:

112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.

[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6] Guide us in the right path –
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=1

This is my viewpoint with reasons; others are welcome to differ with me with reasons.

Thanks

 

[ralphinal]

But why should we accept the Koran or the word of Muhammed? This gets back to the whole issue here: the proof for Muhammed as prophet is the Koran. The Koran counters what we see as truth. Muhammed brought no evidence that the Bible was changed. All we are asking is for something other than circular reasoning.

Why did God not say “here is where they are wrong?” Why did God not send a correction to the Christian Church? Why are did God revert to the Slave/Master image from the Father/Child?

We are not being unreasonable. All we want is some proof that is not biased. We want historical or logical rational as to why Muhammed and the Koran is more correct. And we do not want the proof from WITHIN the Koran or Islam. Outside proof, please. Islam came third, after Judaism and Christianity. We can show how we evolved from Judaism. Islam is its own thing. Please give us more proof as to why you guys are right.

 

[ralphinal]

Hi

I think it is a misconception of the anonymous scribes. The CreatorProvide GodAllah was mentioned as father or Abba metaphorically. Quran has cleared this concept. I mention here two short chapter from Quran to elucidate the point:

This is my viewpoint with reasons; others are welcome to differ with me with reasons.

Thanks

Thanks Paar. So would it bother Muslims for me to call Allah “Daddy” or “Father?” He is the source of all life and giver of all that is good.

What about the other issues? Why revert to slave/master? Why not teach turn the other cheek and forgiveness?

 

[paarsurrey]

But why should we accept the Koran or the word of Muhammed?

Hi

Kindly just tell me as to why you accept Moses and the Torah? Kindly explain the underlying principle.

Thanks