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ralphinal
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Valid question. First, there is a clear line in the Bible from Adam to Moses. There can be no quesiton if you accept the first part of the Bible. Now, as far as Moses as a prophet of God, he worked great signs. The Children of Isreal saw the Glory of God around Moses more than once. The Book of Exodus is the testemony of it all.
To not accept Moses is to deny the entire Bible. There is no way around that.
What great signs did Muhammed work? Who were the witnesses to him speaking face to face with God? How many times did Muhammed sit in the presence of God himself?
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Delta2
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I think that the verbatim word of satan (Qu’ran) didn’t say that Allah speaks directly with Muhammad, was always thru an angel…and revelations always occurred with Aisha - the little girl wife, which was easy to convince since she was only a child
The worst thing that could happen to a soul is worshiping a man that is in Hell
The Fake :
Sura 16:103 – “And we know well that they say: Only a man teacheth him (Muhammad). The speech of him of whom they falsely hint is outlandish, and this is clear Arabic speech.”
In the Hadiths, which says in - Ishaq: 180
According to my information, the Apostle often sat by a young Christian slave named Jabr. The Meccans said, ‘He is the one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings.’” So, these proofs/evidence alone, condemn the Quran as a fake human fabrication, and has nothing to do with a Supreme Being)
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Camron
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It seems that way to me too.
Thank you for this list. That’ something like I was looking for. I find it strange that we Christians have to produce this list to the Muslims even though the Muslims make the claims and don’t actually back them up.
I find it odd that some portions of the Koran itself may have been based on corrupted translations of the Bible to begin with. It’s kind of sadly ironic to see the end result of what happens when this is done.
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Camron
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What I’m asking is if there is any Muslim scholars who have taken the time to outline these supposedly “corrupted passages” from our Bible in order to more clearly present the message of Islam to non-Islamic people.
Apparenty, based on the answers given so far, they have not. And when asked why they haven’t, they simply say they don’t need too, which is stupid because they do need to if they are at all interested in convincing others that the Islamic faith is the true faith.
For example, some Protestants seem to make the claim that the deuterocanonicals were rejected because they were not considered Biblical nor quoted in other parts of the “True Bible”.
However, Catholics can respond to this by presenting strong cases where the True Bible and the Early Fathers do indeed quote from the deuterocanonicals or at least draw on ideas from them.
For example, Hebrews 11:35 says, “Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release that they might rise again to a better life.” Nowhere in the Protestant Old Testament can this story be found. One must look to a Catholic Bible to read the story in 2 Maccabees 7.
Could you please kindly quote it from the Koran with the context of five preceding and five following verses to truly understand it?
How does a Muslim prove the first five and last five passages from the Koran true using logic like this?
Which proves my point: these kind of sloppy and lazy polemics are absolutely useless for apologetics and totally the product of a mentality that has no interest in trying to reasonably dialogue with others who have disagreed with them. The love and wisdom of the Logos is void from their thoughts.
The logic of the statement you provided above is void of any logic whatsoever because you have provided absolutely nothing to actually substantiate the claim that the Koran actually made.
And if you can’t even defend your own Holy Book from these kinds of arguments then your attempts of defining what is considered a corrupt or incorrupt passage in the Bible is rendered to a pathetically tragic joke.
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tomshaikh
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Well Shias are Muslims, But I am asking what about Ahmadi. Let me post about Ahmadi Wikipedia. So Everyone know who do you believe in after Prophet Muhammad pbuh.
Please check guyz Who are Ahmadi and I would not rather say Ahmadi Muslims. So Please guyz donot understand Islam what my above quoted person says about Islam. Coz Ahmadi are not Muslims.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadi
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Sister_Amy
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No.
The standard is this:
anything which agrees with the Qur’an or Hadith is accepted.
anything which disagrees with the Qur’an and Hadith is rejected.
anything else is neither accepted nor rejected–no opinion given, as there is no way to tell.
Muslims accept the virgin birth of Jesus, for example, because it is confirmed in the Qur’an–but the story about Joseph, the inn, a manger, and shepherds… either rejected or no opinion.
Muslims definitely reject the story of the crucifixion because the Qur’an contradicts it.
But some teachings of Jesus appear identically in the Qur’an and Hadith and so they are uniformly accepted as teachings with a divine origin.
But specific tampering with the Bible is actually irrelevant to Muslims. The only thing that matters is what they have in their hands–Qur’an and Hadith. I mean, it isn’t as if God wrote the Bible with a pen and then men decided to change it. It was all written by men, so something might appear in the Bible which is false, and perhaps nobody ever changed it. So it wouldn’t be “tampered with,” but that doesn’t make it true.
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Angelos
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What about the so-called Christian data in the Koran adopted from Apocryphal scripture?
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Sister_Amy
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Seeing as how the Qur’an was entirely revealed by God, I’m sure I don’t know what you mean.What about the so-called Christian data in the Koran adopted from Apocryphal scripture?
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Camron
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I think Angelos is asking you how you know that the Koran was entirely revealed by God.
How do you how you know that the Koran was entirely revealed by God? Because it said so?
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thedavidwilson
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So there is no evidence that the Bible is corrupted except that the quran says so? Did you know there is a large amount of evidence that the Bible is not corrupted?
What evidence is there that the quran is correct? That it is divine? Because it says so?
Isn’t this circular reasoning? In what other circumstance, other than an insane asylum, where this form of “logic” would be acceptable?
Would you bet your salvation on a book that uses flawed circular reasoning, or on evidence that is readily available?
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Angelos
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Here am I running to your aid: most of the narratives about Jesus in the Koran were adopted from Christian scripture that was considered apocryphal (fake texts attributed to a certain apostle or disciple).
For instance, the story about Mary’s and Jesus’ nativity in Surah 3 is a clear duplication of the material found in the Gospel of James (Protoevangelium). Does this mean that your Koran presents the account in an apocryphal Gospel as the direct revelation from God? Does this also mean that the apocryphal Gospel (which does not contradict Christian tenets despite being apocryphal) is considered by the Koran an authentic part of the Christian canon?
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Angelos
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As I have already stated in another thread, the Koran does not confine the modifier FURQAN (Criterion) to itself. According to a verse in the Koran, even the Torah is a Furqan (criterion to distinguish falsehood from truth):
21:48. And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil.
Thus, the presumption recurrently brought up by Hamba2han that the Koran designates itself as the true Furqan in order to imply the corruption of the former texts is faulty and baseless.
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Angelos
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The funny thing about this verse is that it does not accuse people of the covenant of changing “the words of their Scripture” from their right places. Actually, another Koran verse explains what it means when it blames Jews for changing the words from their right places:
4:46. Some of those who are **Jews change words from their context **and say: “We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not” and “Listen to us!” distorting with their tongues and slandering religion. If they had said: “We hear and we obey: hear thou, and look at us” it had been better for them, and more upright.
There is nothing indicating the alleged textual corruption of the Bible in this verse.
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hamba2han
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While it is true that Allah has given Prophets Moses and Aaron (pbut) the Criterion, the Book of Moses, on the other hand, predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. And the Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after, does indeed confirm that the Bible is corrupted and unreliable and even records God Almighty Himself as saying this:
"`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)
In Deuteronomy 31:25-29, Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD :
26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.
27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the LORD while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die!
28 Assemble before me all the elders of your tribes and all your officials, so that I can speak these words in their hearing and call heaven and earth to testify against them.
29 For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made."
Since the Bible itself has stated that what had been given to Moses (pbuh) has been corrupted after his death, is there a reason then why Muslims need to believe that the Bible has not been corrupted?
Seems to me that Muslims have more faith in the “truth” of the Bible than most Christians i.e. when the Bible itself clearly says that it has been corrupted, Muslims believe this to be true whereas quite a few Christians do not.
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inJESUS
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The Word of God stands for ever. God is faithful to His Word. This is what God says and this the Criterion presented by God and which we must use to distinguish between truth and falsehood.
Since God is truthful and His promise is truthful, then it was not God nor will it ever be God who claims He was untruthful.
Muslims believe the Quran because Allah says he preserves his words, but the same Muslims do not believe God who said the same thousands of years before Muhammad, and on the tongues of many prophets. The “prophet” who calls God untruthful is a liar guided by the father of lies.
Since God is truthful and His promise is truthful, then it was not God nor will it ever be God who claims He was untruthful.
Muslims believe the Quran because Allah says he preserves his words, but the same Muslims do not believe God who said the same thousands of years before Muhammad, and on the tongues of many prophets. The “prophet” who calls God untruthful is a liar guided by the father of lies.
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Angelos
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Hamba2han, you will always resort to digression whenever your faulty arguments are easily debunked by me, right? Last time you were discussing the definition of the word Furqan in the Koran while striving to prove the alleged textual corruption of the Bible, now you are suddenly taking refuge in a verse of the Old Testament which seems to support your theories when its context is disregarded. I shall pray for you.
Jeremiah 8:8-10 How do you say: We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Indeed the lying pens of the scribes hath wrought falsehood. The wise men are confounded, they are dismayed, and taken: for **they have cast away the word of the Lord, **and there is no wisdom in them. Therefore will I give their women to strangers, their fields to others for an inheritance: because from the least even to the greatest all follow covetousness: from the prophet even to the priest all deal deceitfully.
The verse 8:8 by no means implies that the Law of the Lord was textually corrupted since the following verse accuses people of ignoring the word of God, NOT of replacing it with their lies. The underlined part in the last verse above also makes it clear that what God condemned through Isaiah was NOT the textual distortion of His word, but false priests’ and prophets’ deceitful practices. Those people were reported to deliberately misinterpret the Law in accordance with their personal desires and interests.
In short, those Jews were not different from Muslim scholars that purposefully tamper with the Koran through misinterpretations and deceitful plays on Arabic words.
Dear amigo, your interpretation is but a perversion of the text in question since Moses promises that the Book of Law will remain as a witness against people who are predicted to practice deceit and forget the commandments after Moses. Since Moses never predicts the corruption of the Book, he also does not promise that another revelation will be given to replace the allegedly distorted one. Thus, your related assertion that new revelations aimed to correct the corrupted parts of the former ones is absolutely rebutted by the Old Testament!
BTW: we have already discussed this specific part in the Torah, but I see that you somehow forget to update your arguments.
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